reported earlier Hornet still ballooning after bolter.

[nicka117]

Just came back to this after a while away. On bolters and touch and go's, the hornet still balloons off the end of the angled deck? I just left the stick alone and left the throttle at like 88 percent, and it just flies up and away. You almost have to go stick forward to keep it from climbing too quickly. If i'm flying on speed AOA at approx 135 knots, and then bolter but dont go to full power, the jet should just fly into the water.  This is still a problem after 3 years?

[Airhunter]

Yup, sadly the #1 voted for item, namely the flight model and fcs bahavior, still wasn't addressed. It was mentioned briefly in a recent newsletter but nothing concrete yet. 

Edited August 22, 2021 by Airhunter

[nicka117]

Yeah, its so stupid, that bolter procedures are reduce throttle and stick forward. 

[Shimmergloom667]

They are knee-deep in the FM review, Bignewy said so in several bug reports lately. It's coming sooner rather than later, now.

Edited August 22, 2021 by Shimmergloom667

[CBStu]

Seems to me that if you went to full throttle right at touchdown (which is sop in case of a bolter) then ballooning is to be expected as speed increases. 

[Wizard_03]

With Flaps switch in Full flaps the FCS is seeking on speed AOA, which with full power will obviously result in a pitch up because the aircraft is trying to maintain on speed with a bunch of excess thrust.

 

[evilnate]

1 hour ago, Wizard_03 said:

With Flaps switch in Full flaps the FCS is seeking on speed AOA, which with full power will obviously result in a pitch up because the aircraft is trying to maintain on speed with a bunch of excess thrust.

 

 

I was thinking the same. If you’re on speed, flight level, what happens if you push the throttle and wait three seconds? 

[evilnate]

Not 100% sure what AC this is, but this plane seems to rise quite a bit after a miss. 

 

 

[Lex Talionis]

 

4 hours ago, CBStu said:

Seems to me that if you went to full throttle right at touchdown (which is sop in case of a bolter) then ballooning is to be expected as speed increases. 

[majapahit]

2 hours ago, evilnate said:

Not 100% sure what AC this is, but this plane seems to rise quite a bit after a miss. 

 

 

 

That HUD looks like an F-18 and that is one hell of a terrible approach, watch his speed, he is way too slow, watch the pitch, its 14.3, find where the W-waterline is, it's of the picture, watch the ball, he is way too high, see the bounce, he is not heavy, watch him pitch, he is pulling way too much for his speed, he is stalling and rocketing on afterburners (if he is that clever to do that).
What he did was put the E-bracket wrong, because this pilot is a dim ass. Fun to watch though.

 

Edited September 1, 2021 by majapahit

[Tholozor]

23 minutes ago, majapahit said:

 

That HUD looks like an F-18 and that is one hell of a terrible approach, watch his speed, he is way too slow, watch the pitch, its 14.3, find where the W-waterline is, it's of the picture, watch the ball, he is way too high, see the bounce, he is not heavy, watch him pitch, he is pulling way too much for his speed, he is stalling and rocketing on afterburners (if he is that clever to do that).
What he did was put the E-bracket wrong, because this pilot is a dim ass. Fun to watch though.

 

 

 

Looks like a T-45 to me, which would mean training carrier qual. Makes sense there'd be mistakes, no need to belittle the pilot.

[CBStu]

To elaborate a little try an experiment. Get your self all set at AOA w/ full flaps, gear and hook down, and enough throttle so you maintain a steady altitude rather than a normal descent. You will will be somewhere in the 135-140k speed range depending on weight. Now add throttle. What happens? Plane goes up. If you get to maybe 160-170, you will start to get to where it is going up no matter what you do other than pull back the throttle. Eventually the flaps will retract automatically but I think that is above 200, maybe 250k, and until you get to that speed you will be going up.

[TimRobertsen]

On 9/1/2021 at 9:28 PM, majapahit said:

 

That HUD looks like an F-18 and that is one hell of a terrible approach, watch his speed, he is way too slow, watch the pitch, its 14.3, find where the W-waterline is, it's of the picture, watch the ball, he is way too high, see the bounce, he is not heavy, watch him pitch, he is pulling way too much for his speed, he is stalling and rocketing on afterburners (if he is that clever to do that).
What he did was put the E-bracket wrong, because this pilot is a dim ass. Fun to watch though.

 

 

 

 

If thats a Hornet then it must have a negative fuel-load  

Flying at 112 knots, on-speed, that must be a very light/small jet. Pluss, the bottom of the E-bracket is 15 degrees, the Hornet is around 7 degrees. Furthermore, on-speed looks to be around 17-18 degrees AoA. So, this is something very different from a Hornet.

 

 

 

Regarding the ballooning: as stated above, it's not that unreasonable to assume that the Hornet would pitch up/balloon (not fall in the ocean) after leaving the deck, if you maintain the same throttle-position which gave you a 3 degree glideslope (unless the friction of the deck eats up too much of your speed). Adding just a little throttle usually gives you a positive climb rate.

 

What I want to see changed is the groundeffect.

Once you cross over the fantail, the AoA (almost) immediately starts to decrease. This does not seem to be the case IRL.

Looking at HUD-videos on youtube, the AoA does not seem to be affected when crossing the fantail.

The groundeffect in DCS is so strong that if you are low on GS when you cross the fantail, it can push you to the #4 wire, when you would otherwise have expected to catch the #1 wire.

[Cab]

On 9/1/2021 at 2:28 PM, majapahit said:

 

That HUD looks like an F-18 and that is one hell of a terrible approach, watch his speed, he is way too slow, watch the pitch, its 14.3, find where the W-waterline is, it's of the picture, watch the ball, he is way too high, see the bounce, he is not heavy, watch him pitch, he is pulling way too much for his speed, he is stalling and rocketing on afterburners (if he is that clever to do that).
What he did was put the E-bracket wrong, because this pilot is a dim ass. Fun to watch though.

 

 

 

 

Have you ever been to the boat? The REAL boat? Not the simulated one in DCS.

 

And I mean been to the boat for your first time. Alone. As in, no one is in the jet with you when you look down and see how small that so-called supercarrier really is. Or when you roll in on your first final approach and think to yourself, "HOLY CRAP! THAT IS SMALL!" (Paraphrased for a PG audience )

 

Try to have a little respect.

[Stearmandriver]

On 9/3/2021 at 5:57 AM, Cab said:

 

Have you ever been to the boat? The REAL boat? Not the simulated one in DCS.

 

And I mean been to the boat for your first time. Alone. As in, no one is in the jet with you when you look down and see how small that so-called supercarrier really is. Or when you roll in on your first final approach and think to yourself, "HOLY CRAP! THAT IS SMALL!" (Paraphrased for a PG audience )

 

Try to have a little respect.

I love when video gamers try to critique the person flying an actual airplane.   

[The LT]

On 9/1/2021 at 10:28 PM, majapahit said:

 

Fun to watch though.

 

 

 

Was fun to read your blurt. Now, maybe redact the message to avoid further embarrasment?

[nicka117]

I understand if you go to full throttle at touch down, you will a very positive climb rate off the end in the landing config. What I don't understand is why I can leave the throttle at 85 to 90 percent as I roll down the deck and then get a very positive floaty climb rate off the end. Also, at full throttle you should be able to get the jet to leave the deck before the end, but the ground effect won't let you. Its just weird.

[oldcrusty]

57 minutes ago, nicka117 said:

I understand if you go to full throttle at touch down, you will a very positive climb rate off the end in the landing config. What I don't understand is why I can leave the throttle at 85 to 90 percent as I roll down the deck and then get a very positive floaty climb rate off the end. Also, at full throttle you should be able to get the jet to leave the deck before the end, but the ground effect won't let you. Its just weird.

 

I always shove the throttles to MRT (mil. power), 1/2 a second before expected slam on the deck and keep it there till the nose 'hesitates' after initial pitch-up. Almost immediately after this very brief settle it starts chasing your landing on-speed AOA. That's when I come back on power and keep the stick forward slightly with whatever power I need for a nice climb and trying not to overshoot 600 ft.

This momentary pitch-up settle (around 13 ~ 15 deg.) is not an initial pitch-up capture, it's more like a big wobble but it works fine for now. Let's wait till the FM update and see what they come up with...

Edited September 7, 2021 by Gripes323

[CBStu]

I am curious where did you come up w/ the 85-90% throttle setting? And who said what the plane should do at that setting? I never look at that. To me, w/ full flaps, if the plane is climbing more than you want, you have too much throttle on which has caused your speed to climb too high. Pull it back.

[oldcrusty]

On 9/7/2021 at 2:10 PM, nicka117 said:

I understand if you go to full throttle at touch down, you will a very positive climb rate off the end in the landing config. What I don't understand is why I can leave the throttle at 85 to 90 percent as I roll down the deck and then get a very positive floaty climb rate off the end. Also, at full throttle you should be able to get the jet to leave the deck before the end, but the ground effect won't let you. Its just weird.

 

I just did a short vid showing an intentional bolter. Total weight 32.5k lbs.  It was a quick setup so my 180 and the line-up in the middle was shaky but it shows the nose position after flying off the deck and the momentary pitch-up settle at around 12deg. The power was at mil. till that moment then backed off to about 80 ~ 85 while applying forward pressure with the stick. Then, it was just a fluid power and forward stick adjustments to maintain a steady climb at around 140 ~ 150 kts, not approach AOA. Once level at 600 and turning toward downwind, power to on-speed.

Note: when I flew off the deck after the bolter, I wasn't putting any pressure on the stick.

 

 

[Callsign JoNay]

Isn't the ballooning caused because of the way DCS models carriers, and how aircraft stick to them like magnets? I believe carriers are modeled this way so parked aircraft don't bounce and slide around on the deck.

 

What's happening is your wheels touch down for the intended trap, you push power to buster or AB, the aircraft accelerates but doesn't bounce or lift off the deck because of the magnetic effect, then the aircraft suddenly balloons upward once the wheels are clear of the deck.

Edited September 9, 2021 by Callsign JoNay

[oldcrusty]

3 hours ago, Callsign JoNay said:

Isn't the ballooning caused because of the way DCS models carriers, and how aircraft stick to them like magnets? I believe carriers are modeled this way so parked aircraft don't bounce and slide around on the deck.

 

What's happening is your wheels touch down for the intended trap, you push power to buster or AB, the aircraft accelerates but doesn't bounce or lift off the deck because of the magnetic effect, then the aircraft suddenly balloons upward once the wheels are clear of the deck.

 

 

The initial pitchup looked quite normal to me. I was fairly heavy though in my vid. I'm gonna try it with low weight to see if it makes any difference. 

The 'ballooning' is more evident after the carrier break. It seems to a bit less pronounced currently in my opinion then it it was a while back but it's still there.

 

When you do touch&go's on the runway, you'll see similar behavior. If you don't make any input on the stick during and after liftoff and stay at mill power, you'll go into vertical quick, especially at light weight.

Edited September 9, 2021 by Gripes323

[Callsign JoNay]

Well all I know is you can't lift off from a carrier like you can on a runway. Your wheels are stuck to it until you roll off the edge. So it makes sense that if you have enough speed to generate a positive ascent before your wheels actually roll off the edge you will experience a sudden jolt of lift. I believe it's just a limitation of the game right now.