nicka117 Posted August 22, 2021 Share Posted August 22, 2021 Just came back to this after a while away. On bolters and touch and go's, the hornet still balloons off the end of the angled deck? I just left the stick alone and left the throttle at like 88 percent, and it just flies up and away. You almost have to go stick forward to keep it from climbing too quickly. If i'm flying on speed AOA at approx 135 knots, and then bolter but dont go to full power, the jet should just fly into the water. This is still a problem after 3 years? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Airhunter Posted August 22, 2021 Share Posted August 22, 2021 (edited) Yup, sadly the #1 voted for item, namely the flight model and fcs bahavior, still wasn't addressed. It was mentioned briefly in a recent newsletter but nothing concrete yet. Edited August 22, 2021 by Airhunter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nicka117 Posted August 22, 2021 Author Share Posted August 22, 2021 Yeah, its so stupid, that bolter procedures are reduce throttle and stick forward. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shimmergloom667 Posted August 22, 2021 Share Posted August 22, 2021 (edited) They are knee-deep in the FM review, Bignewy said so in several bug reports lately. It's coming sooner rather than later, now. Edited August 22, 2021 by Shimmergloom667 3 i7 - 9700K | 32 GB DDR4 3200 | RTX 2080 | VKB Gunfighter Mk II /w MCG Pro | Virpil T-50CM2 Throttle | TrackIR 5 | VKB Mk. IV AJS-37 | A/V-8B | A-10C | F-14A/B | F-16C | F-18C | F-86F | FC3 | JF-17 | Ka-50 | L-39 | Mi-8 | MiG-15bis | MiG-19 | MiG-21bis | M2000-C | P-51D | Spitfire LF Mk. IX | UH-1H Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CBStu Posted September 1, 2021 Share Posted September 1, 2021 Seems to me that if you went to full throttle right at touchdown (which is sop in case of a bolter) then ballooning is to be expected as speed increases. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wizard_03 Posted September 1, 2021 Share Posted September 1, 2021 With Flaps switch in Full flaps the FCS is seeking on speed AOA, which with full power will obviously result in a pitch up because the aircraft is trying to maintain on speed with a bunch of excess thrust. DCS F/A-18C :sorcerer: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evilnate Posted September 1, 2021 Share Posted September 1, 2021 1 hour ago, Wizard_03 said: With Flaps switch in Full flaps the FCS is seeking on speed AOA, which with full power will obviously result in a pitch up because the aircraft is trying to maintain on speed with a bunch of excess thrust. I was thinking the same. If you’re on speed, flight level, what happens if you push the throttle and wait three seconds? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evilnate Posted September 1, 2021 Share Posted September 1, 2021 Not 100% sure what AC this is, but this plane seems to rise quite a bit after a miss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lex Talionis Posted September 1, 2021 Share Posted September 1, 2021 4 hours ago, CBStu said: Seems to me that if you went to full throttle right at touchdown (which is sop in case of a bolter) then ballooning is to be expected as speed increases. 1 2 Find us on Discord. https://discord.gg/td9qeqg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
majapahit Posted September 1, 2021 Share Posted September 1, 2021 (edited) 2 hours ago, evilnate said: Not 100% sure what AC this is, but this plane seems to rise quite a bit after a miss. That HUD looks like an F-18 and that is one hell of a terrible approach, watch his speed, he is way too slow, watch the pitch, its 14.3, find where the W-waterline is, it's of the picture, watch the ball, he is way too high, see the bounce, he is not heavy, watch him pitch, he is pulling way too much for his speed, he is stalling and rocketing on afterburners (if he is that clever to do that). What he did was put the E-bracket wrong, because this pilot is a dim ass. Fun to watch though. Edited September 1, 2021 by majapahit | VR goggles | Autopilot panel | Headtracker | TM HOTAS | G920 HOTAS | MS FFB 2 | Throttle Quadrants | 8600K | GTX 1080 | 64GB RAM| Win 10 x64 | Voicerecognition | 50" UHD TV monitor | 40" 1080p TV monitor | 2x 24" 1080p side monitors | 24" 1080p touchscreen | Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tholozor Posted September 1, 2021 Share Posted September 1, 2021 23 minutes ago, majapahit said: That HUD looks like an F-18 and that is one hell of a terrible approach, watch his speed, he is way too slow, watch the pitch, its 14.3, find where the W-waterline is, it's of the picture, watch the ball, he is way too high, see the bounce, he is not heavy, watch him pitch, he is pulling way too much for his speed, he is stalling and rocketing on afterburners (if he is that clever to do that). What he did was put the E-bracket wrong, because this pilot is a dim ass. Fun to watch though. Looks like a T-45 to me, which would mean training carrier qual. Makes sense there'd be mistakes, no need to belittle the pilot. 3 REAPER 51 | Tholozor VFA-136 (c.2007): https://www.digitalcombatsimulator.com/en/files/3305981/ Arleigh Burke Destroyer Pack (2020): https://www.digitalcombatsimulator.com/en/files/3313752/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CBStu Posted September 2, 2021 Share Posted September 2, 2021 To elaborate a little try an experiment. Get your self all set at AOA w/ full flaps, gear and hook down, and enough throttle so you maintain a steady altitude rather than a normal descent. You will will be somewhere in the 135-140k speed range depending on weight. Now add throttle. What happens? Plane goes up. If you get to maybe 160-170, you will start to get to where it is going up no matter what you do other than pull back the throttle. Eventually the flaps will retract automatically but I think that is above 200, maybe 250k, and until you get to that speed you will be going up. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimRobertsen Posted September 3, 2021 Share Posted September 3, 2021 On 9/1/2021 at 9:28 PM, majapahit said: That HUD looks like an F-18 and that is one hell of a terrible approach, watch his speed, he is way too slow, watch the pitch, its 14.3, find where the W-waterline is, it's of the picture, watch the ball, he is way too high, see the bounce, he is not heavy, watch him pitch, he is pulling way too much for his speed, he is stalling and rocketing on afterburners (if he is that clever to do that). What he did was put the E-bracket wrong, because this pilot is a dim ass. Fun to watch though. If thats a Hornet then it must have a negative fuel-load Flying at 112 knots, on-speed, that must be a very light/small jet. Pluss, the bottom of the E-bracket is 15 degrees, the Hornet is around 7 degrees. Furthermore, on-speed looks to be around 17-18 degrees AoA. So, this is something very different from a Hornet. Regarding the ballooning: as stated above, it's not that unreasonable to assume that the Hornet would pitch up/balloon (not fall in the ocean) after leaving the deck, if you maintain the same throttle-position which gave you a 3 degree glideslope (unless the friction of the deck eats up too much of your speed). Adding just a little throttle usually gives you a positive climb rate. What I want to see changed is the groundeffect. Once you cross over the fantail, the AoA (almost) immediately starts to decrease. This does not seem to be the case IRL. Looking at HUD-videos on youtube, the AoA does not seem to be affected when crossing the fantail. The groundeffect in DCS is so strong that if you are low on GS when you cross the fantail, it can push you to the #4 wire, when you would otherwise have expected to catch the #1 wire. First become an aviator, then become a terminator Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cab Posted September 3, 2021 Share Posted September 3, 2021 On 9/1/2021 at 2:28 PM, majapahit said: That HUD looks like an F-18 and that is one hell of a terrible approach, watch his speed, he is way too slow, watch the pitch, its 14.3, find where the W-waterline is, it's of the picture, watch the ball, he is way too high, see the bounce, he is not heavy, watch him pitch, he is pulling way too much for his speed, he is stalling and rocketing on afterburners (if he is that clever to do that). What he did was put the E-bracket wrong, because this pilot is a dim ass. Fun to watch though. Have you ever been to the boat? The REAL boat? Not the simulated one in DCS. And I mean been to the boat for your first time. Alone. As in, no one is in the jet with you when you look down and see how small that so-called supercarrier really is. Or when you roll in on your first final approach and think to yourself, "HOLY CRAP! THAT IS SMALL!" (Paraphrased for a PG audience ) Try to have a little respect. 10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stearmandriver Posted September 7, 2021 Share Posted September 7, 2021 On 9/3/2021 at 5:57 AM, Cab said: Have you ever been to the boat? The REAL boat? Not the simulated one in DCS. And I mean been to the boat for your first time. Alone. As in, no one is in the jet with you when you look down and see how small that so-called supercarrier really is. Or when you roll in on your first final approach and think to yourself, "HOLY CRAP! THAT IS SMALL!" (Paraphrased for a PG audience ) Try to have a little respect. I love when video gamers try to critique the person flying an actual airplane. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The LT Posted September 7, 2021 Share Posted September 7, 2021 On 9/1/2021 at 10:28 PM, majapahit said: Fun to watch though. Was fun to read your blurt. Now, maybe redact the message to avoid further embarrasment? My controls & seat Main controls: , BRD-N v4 Flightstick (Kreml C5 controller), TM Warthog Throttle (Kreml F3 controller), BRD-F2 Restyling Bf-109 Pedals w. damper, TrackIR5, Gametrix KW-908 (integrated into RAV4 seat) Stick grips: Thrustmaster Warthog Thrustmaster Cougar (x2) Thrustmaster F-16 FLCS BRD KG13 Standby controls: BRD-M2 Mi-8 Pedals (Ruddermaster controller) BRD-N v3 Flightstick w. exch. grip upgrade (Kreml C5 controller) Thrustmaster Cougar Throttle Pilot seat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nicka117 Posted September 7, 2021 Author Share Posted September 7, 2021 I understand if you go to full throttle at touch down, you will a very positive climb rate off the end in the landing config. What I don't understand is why I can leave the throttle at 85 to 90 percent as I roll down the deck and then get a very positive floaty climb rate off the end. Also, at full throttle you should be able to get the jet to leave the deck before the end, but the ground effect won't let you. Its just weird. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldcrusty Posted September 7, 2021 Share Posted September 7, 2021 (edited) 57 minutes ago, nicka117 said: I understand if you go to full throttle at touch down, you will a very positive climb rate off the end in the landing config. What I don't understand is why I can leave the throttle at 85 to 90 percent as I roll down the deck and then get a very positive floaty climb rate off the end. Also, at full throttle you should be able to get the jet to leave the deck before the end, but the ground effect won't let you. Its just weird. I always shove the throttles to MRT (mil. power), 1/2 a second before expected slam on the deck and keep it there till the nose 'hesitates' after initial pitch-up. Almost immediately after this very brief settle it starts chasing your landing on-speed AOA. That's when I come back on power and keep the stick forward slightly with whatever power I need for a nice climb and trying not to overshoot 600 ft. This momentary pitch-up settle (around 13 ~ 15 deg.) is not an initial pitch-up capture, it's more like a big wobble but it works fine for now. Let's wait till the FM update and see what they come up with... Edited September 7, 2021 by Gripes323 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CBStu Posted September 8, 2021 Share Posted September 8, 2021 I am curious where did you come up w/ the 85-90% throttle setting? And who said what the plane should do at that setting? I never look at that. To me, w/ full flaps, if the plane is climbing more than you want, you have too much throttle on which has caused your speed to climb too high. Pull it back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldcrusty Posted September 8, 2021 Share Posted September 8, 2021 On 9/7/2021 at 2:10 PM, nicka117 said: I understand if you go to full throttle at touch down, you will a very positive climb rate off the end in the landing config. What I don't understand is why I can leave the throttle at 85 to 90 percent as I roll down the deck and then get a very positive floaty climb rate off the end. Also, at full throttle you should be able to get the jet to leave the deck before the end, but the ground effect won't let you. Its just weird. I just did a short vid showing an intentional bolter. Total weight 32.5k lbs. It was a quick setup so my 180 and the line-up in the middle was shaky but it shows the nose position after flying off the deck and the momentary pitch-up settle at around 12deg. The power was at mil. till that moment then backed off to about 80 ~ 85 while applying forward pressure with the stick. Then, it was just a fluid power and forward stick adjustments to maintain a steady climb at around 140 ~ 150 kts, not approach AOA. Once level at 600 and turning toward downwind, power to on-speed. Note: when I flew off the deck after the bolter, I wasn't putting any pressure on the stick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Callsign JoNay Posted September 9, 2021 Share Posted September 9, 2021 (edited) Isn't the ballooning caused because of the way DCS models carriers, and how aircraft stick to them like magnets? I believe carriers are modeled this way so parked aircraft don't bounce and slide around on the deck. What's happening is your wheels touch down for the intended trap, you push power to buster or AB, the aircraft accelerates but doesn't bounce or lift off the deck because of the magnetic effect, then the aircraft suddenly balloons upward once the wheels are clear of the deck. Edited September 9, 2021 by Callsign JoNay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldcrusty Posted September 9, 2021 Share Posted September 9, 2021 (edited) 3 hours ago, Callsign JoNay said: Isn't the ballooning caused because of the way DCS models carriers, and how aircraft stick to them like magnets? I believe carriers are modeled this way so parked aircraft don't bounce and slide around on the deck. What's happening is your wheels touch down for the intended trap, you push power to buster or AB, the aircraft accelerates but doesn't bounce or lift off the deck because of the magnetic effect, then the aircraft suddenly balloons upward once the wheels are clear of the deck. The initial pitchup looked quite normal to me. I was fairly heavy though in my vid. I'm gonna try it with low weight to see if it makes any difference. The 'ballooning' is more evident after the carrier break. It seems to a bit less pronounced currently in my opinion then it it was a while back but it's still there. When you do touch&go's on the runway, you'll see similar behavior. If you don't make any input on the stick during and after liftoff and stay at mill power, you'll go into vertical quick, especially at light weight. Edited September 9, 2021 by Gripes323 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Callsign JoNay Posted September 9, 2021 Share Posted September 9, 2021 Well all I know is you can't lift off from a carrier like you can on a runway. Your wheels are stuck to it until you roll off the edge. So it makes sense that if you have enough speed to generate a positive ascent before your wheels actually roll off the edge you will experience a sudden jolt of lift. I believe it's just a limitation of the game right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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