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Yak-52 Trainer


Callsign112
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I know a lot of people have gripes with response time from ED regarding updates/fixes for the model, but does it get a recommendation in terms of the modeled air frame itself. Out of the 3 videos attached, the first is more recent and seems to get the green light from the reviewer, while the other two are from an actual aerobatics pilot/owner who reviewed the DCS model back in 2018. He puts it through its paces and gave it mostly a good review while pointing out what wasn't quite right in his opinion as an owner.

 

The interior looks to be on par with other models along with the sounds and liveries. I'm not new to DCS and have other prop planes, but is the Yak-52 something the community would recommend even for someone just starting out learning to fly?

 

 

 

 

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The Yak is one of my favourite modules.  for a simple sunset aero flight with the cockpit open it takes some beating.  It has a few issues (show me a module which doesn't) but nothing that major.  I would recommend it as an aircraft in its own right, never mind as a stepping stone to the more complex stuff.

 

It is good for practicing the fundamentals, but I find the concept of a trainer within a sim a strange one.  The best aircraft to learn in is the aircraft you wish to fly (be that Spitfire, Viper, etc.).  There are no consequences for crashing , you aren't going to be binned from flight training, and there are no cost implications for training in a fast-jet, all of which apply to real life, but are irrelevant in a game.

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6 hours ago, Callsign112 said:

The interior looks to be on par with other models along with the sounds and liveries.

 

The 3D modelling and sounds seem on par with ED's other warbirds, it's just let down by some incomplete systems modelling and FM tweaks. I'm not sure what you mean by liveries as it only comes with a couple of Russian skins and other countries get bare metal, thankfully there are some good user made skins that fix ED's omission.

 

With that said, I prefer the Yak-52 to the CE II in terms of finished quality, however I don't fly either of them very much.

 

6 hours ago, Callsign112 said:

... is the Yak-52 something the community would recommend even for someone just starting out learning to fly?

 

Obviously I don't represent the "community", so this very much just personal opinion:

 

• It adds to DCS's limited "civil/training" roles but is not something I can easily recommend unless you "must" fly this class of plane and DCS is your preferred/only sim platform.

• The free TF-51D is better in nearly all respects to the Yak-52 (other than ease of use) and was what I used for basic prop training (I had planned to buy a second copy but ED never finished the module).

• If interested in buying the Yak-52, I suggest waiting for a sale as it has a limited role in DCS and is a very low priority in terms of ED's dev resources, etc.


Edited by Ramsay
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Thanks guys! In terms of liveries, am I to assume the skins the guy in the top video shows off are from the community?

 

Also, I am assuming that you can fly with another real player, but the other player would also need the Yak installed?

 

Anyway, I have been scratching the buy button for a while now so I am going to go with your advice and pick it up during the next sale.

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You will both need the Yak to fly two player.  Use the free-to-fly scheme to try it out first before you commit.

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My main argument with the Yak is the price. Its priced plainly wrong (See Combined Arms as well).
Even if the model was right and finished, it would STILL be too expensive.
Its the same price as the I-16 and more expensive than the CE2.
Which are considerably much better (and much different) modules.

If the flight model was finished. It would STILL be priced wrong (See CE2).

Learning to fly? Use the TF51, its free.. Learning to fly in formation? Use the TF51, its free.. Learning to perform aerobatics? Use the TF51, its free..
Save the $40..

Why should anyone buy the Yak?

Because its so simple, fun, slow and pretty much useless, it puts itself into its own class of amazement.
A friend of mine takes part in Citroen 2CV Racing at Oulton Park, I dont get why anyone would want to do that when Production GTI class is but a little more, But when im in the Yak- I kind of do- 'a little'..

Theres something about being in no rush to fly, no pressures to 'deliver payloads' in enemy territory, no need to worry about long drawn out over complicated missions. The yak touches on this pleasantly.
The Yak, is flying. No BS, No worry, No nonsense- flying..
And every moment in the yak is like flying with the birds.
Thats what you pay for.
And why its still too much for the module..

The problems that rise from the module arent all really that bad, were missing quite a bit, but theyre all there in the TF51 and its free, so why would anyone really buy the Yak?
The two week trial allows everyone to 'try it', and honestly- two weeks is all you need, before you get a bit bored of it.
Trialling the Yak, is enough to know it shouldnt be bought for anything less than $15 when not in a sale..
So now it will never really sell or get looked at it, its just going to sit there and waste away, which is only a shame but for only those whom are fans of DCS and have paid for it.

If the Price was more than halved, Id strongly change my mind towards recommending it to people even in its state now, then in sales at something like $7.50- its pretty much a no brainer, a 'must buy' purchase. But while its sat up at $40 and being not looked at and not selling, all thats happening is that the people who have already bought it, are getting more and more angry while it gets ignored, even at $20 its a little too much when finished..
Then we'll have bugs with every update, so we know the time frame now will be echoed with those fixes.

Once a year, me and a few people have an hour in the aerobatics server flying in formation, but honestly- theres not much more to do than that, you cant really perform a loop with out first gaining speed from a dive, and without the damage model, its just a powered non damaging glider- albeit not a good one either.
While the FA18 is the all mighty foundation and flagship of DCS, the Yak is the bit that comes out the other end.
And a warning to most, to what happens to modules that arent profitable.
They should probably delete it, or lower the price considerably. Because right now its a middle finger to those that put faith into DCS and went into buying it.

I still love the Yak (I even made a campaign for it too), but while DCS arent in love with it anymore, there isnt much point to having it in their list of modules and theres definitely no point in them selling it for the price they have it marked up at, I cant help feel Its daylight robbery.

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6 hours ago, Callsign112 said:

In terms of liveries, am I to assume the skins the guy in the top video shows off are from the community?

Yes, see the text overlay at 1 min 23 sec.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6vhCVgJwMFw&t=83s

 

There are currently ~79 community made Yak-52 skin packs in "User Files"

 

https://www.digitalcombatsimulator.com/en/files/filter/type-is-skin/unit-is-yak-52/apply/

 


Edited by Ramsay
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@StevanJ, thanks for your comments. You make a lot of good points, some of which I couldn't even really raise an argument against. Like the things needing updating/fixing that the community has been patiently waiting for such a long time. I have to admit, I can't really make heads or tails out of why ED would let something like this travel down that road for so long. But they have reaffirmed their commitment as recently as just a few weeks ago.

 

So for now I guess the community that supports ED in its mission to deliver a fully fledged digital combat simulator will have to accept that the Yak has been given a lower priority. If I look at the stance ED took as a company with the WWII promises made by a third party, do you think they would drop the ball completely with something that has its name on it?

 

The point I disagree with though would be on price. I think on sale, it is about $20. If we consider what goes into any of these models whether it be a plane/tank/ship/map/tech pack, then $20 is very reasonable IMO. That is the primary point of supporting things like CA and asset packs. They are an essential part of what it will take to successfully make a digital combat simulator, and as such add a lot of value IMO. My son pays something like $60 for his annual DLC to R6S. What we are talking about here is so much more. Its not just about planes, its about connecting all the offensive/defensive pieces together. Air/land/sea. This is a really big job, and I agree, the Yak is a really small piece in that puzzle.

 

But going back to the Yak, I am personally really impressed with the model itself, as were some of the people that gave it a review. The Yak owner in the videos above pointed out several issues that he felt were not on, but he also praised the model for its accuracy on other points. I guess the question is, when will ED get around to revisiting/finishing what it started?

 

For me personally, the Yak is different from the TF51 in that it takes off, and lands more like a jet. It also allows the player to experiment with maneuvers at a lower rate of speed in a plane that is arguably easier to recover in. I also have a personal interest in this configuration mostly because of the dual seat and its potential as a trainer. I see the ability to join another player as another level of immersion.

 

Let's not forget that the Yak-52 was well received as a military trainer, so it serves a real purpose here IMO. That goes without mentioning that it was also known as a decent aerobatics platform that also saw development into a ground attack version. Will ED ever add that as an update? They could if they wanted to I suppose, but I'm guessing that would only make sense if the community had interest in it, which in turn is dependent on ED's ability to finishing it. So I see value in it as both, support for DCS World and as a plane unto itself being an important part of military aviation history. 

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4 hours ago, Callsign112 said:

do you think they would drop the ball completely with something that has its name on it?


Ask the forum..

 

4 hours ago, Callsign112 said:

The point I disagree with though would be on price


Well right now its still in Early Access, and its $40.. So more than likely when its out itll be more expensive.

 

4 hours ago, Callsign112 said:

I see the ability to join another player as another level of immersion.


Well you can fly along side someone, but MP '2 in a plane' is a struggle with sync issues.

Look, it seems you want the Yak, trial it for two weeks, if you like it, buy it.
Its not bad, its nice. Its fun. And it has its perks..
Go with your gut.

I bought it in the sale. Ive had good fun from it.
But just dont expect updates, or youll be upset.


Edited by StevanJ
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Well I am glad you are having fun with it, and your point is well taken, a lot of people have been waiting a long time for an update with little satisfaction. I am willing to bet that includes a lot of people that haven't even bought the plane yet.

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  • 4 weeks later...

Could anybody give me a complete, no fluff list of what is still expected/promised for this module please? 

I know some of the stuff but I would like an update if possible

 

I will add;

 

I ask because as much as I enjoy flying the Yak occasionally, I don't ever pay enough attention to it or have experience with a real one to compare it to anything and although I have always been fairly content with the state of the module I do appreciate people's efforts to make sure that my modules are as true to life as possible and that they are being supported if not yet complete, especially when there are seemingly better options on other platforms available to me.

@Eagle Dynamics

It is embarrassing to own the module at present, whether it flies well or not, because ED have chosen to ignore it for so long.

I have always held DCS modules aside from the rest, in a league of their own, but to see the way they are handling such a basic module and the community who have invested in it is very upsetting. I bought into it in the hope that they may start churning out more modules like it (civil/trainer types) but if that has not to be the case because not many people invested then just get the guys on it, knock it out the park and be done with it and move on. The constant lingering is deplorable and I do not enjoy bashing ED because I appreciate the mountains they move for us but this is more like a mole hill...

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On 9/14/2021 at 3:52 PM, Bagpipe said:

Could anybody give me a complete, no fluff list of what is still expected/promised for this module please? 

I know some of the stuff but I would like an update if possible

 

I will add;

 

I ask because as much as I enjoy flying the Yak occasionally, I don't ever pay enough attention to it or have experience with a real one to compare it to anything and although I have always been fairly content with the state of the module I do appreciate people's efforts to make sure that my modules are as true to life as possible and that they are being supported if not yet complete, especially when there are seemingly better options on other platforms available to me.

@Eagle Dynamics

It is embarrassing to own the module at present, whether it flies well or not, because ED have chosen to ignore it for so long.

I have always held DCS modules aside from the rest, in a league of their own, but to see the way they are handling such a basic module and the community who have invested in it is very upsetting. I bought into it in the hope that they may start churning out more modules like it (civil/trainer types) but if that has not to be the case because not many people invested then just get the guys on it, knock it out the park and be done with it and move on. The constant lingering is deplorable and I do not enjoy bashing ED because I appreciate the mountains they move for us but this is more like a mole hill...

I don't have the plane yet, but if you are wondering what things you can expect to be improved with your Yak 52 module, have a look at the bugs and problems sub forum to see what has been reported. I think the main issues seem to bee with the turn/slip indicator, oil temp/engine, knee board functionality, multi-crew sync, smoke toggle switch, and rudder control.

 

I have spent the last several weeks learning about ED's version of the Yak 52, and am looking forward at picking it up during the next sale because contrary to popular belief and like every other thing bought, sold, traded, the value of DCS World goes up during a sale.


Edited by Callsign112
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On 8/21/2021 at 5:04 PM, Callsign112 said:

For me personally, the Yak is different from the TF51 in that it takes off, and lands more like a jet.

 

It also allows the player to experiment with maneuvers at a lower rate of speed in a plane that is arguably easier to recover in. 

 

That goes without mentioning that it was also known as a decent aerobatics platform

I don't agree that the Yak takes off more like a jet.  

 

Lower speed means lower energy which in turn makes aerobatics (energy management) a lot more difficult than in faster and higher powered aircraft.

 

Aerobatics in the DCS Yak will teach you wrong techniques, even very basic maneuvers like a loop due to missing basics in the flight model.    

 

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13 часов назад, bbrz сказал:

I don't agree that the Yak takes off more like a jet.

What I think he means is the chassis configuration. It's an entry level training plane first and foremost, so there is little point in making it a taildragger because 95% of cadets won't ever deal with one.

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14 hours ago, bbrz said:

I don't agree that the Yak takes off more like a jet.  

 

Lower speed means lower energy which in turn makes aerobatics (energy management) a lot more difficult than in faster and higher powered aircraft.

 

Aerobatics in the DCS Yak will teach you wrong techniques, even very basic maneuvers like a loop due to missing basics in the flight model.    

 

Reading your post, it seems like you are confusing/mixing up a number of points/ideas/issues.

 

First of all the comment you are quoting was in response to someone suggesting I use the Mustang trainer in place of the Yak. So the comment was in reference to the differences between the Yak and a tail-dragger.

 

The Yak has a lot more in common with most Jets in terms of how it takes off and lands then it has with the Mustang.

 

The Yak generates a lot of lift, and while it is not the most powerful plane, it is also very light. But can you explain what you mean by being easier in a faster more powerful aircraft? Like how would an F14 Tomcat do in an aerobatics competition? Its certainly faster, and I think safe to say more powerful!

 

And what bad techniques will the Yak teach you? Can you explain the basic maneuvers and how the flight model is going to contribute to learning the wrong techniques?

 

Because I am interested to know.

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On 9/18/2021 at 9:29 PM, WarbossPetross said:

What I think he means is the chassis configuration. It's an entry level training plane first and foremost, so there is little point in making it a taildragger because 95% of cadets won't ever deal with one.

 If we a talking about military cadets - yes, after their initial training they were flying jets. However, in the USSR 100% civilian cadets ("Aeroflot" civilian cadets, they used Yak-18T as a trainer) were dealing with An-2 taildraggers as their first after initial training plane. At some places in Russia it goes the same way today. Except those who graduated from AVLUGA, they we transferring to Yak-40 jet and did not fly AN-2 if I remember properly.

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It is a pretty good model. For one if you have an instructor to teach you to fly, it does work as a good trainer. That is, the problems that have been mentioned elsewhere on the forum do exist, and there are some limitations as well as some things that need tweaking by DCS. 

However that being said, we have tried it with a non real life pilot friend of mine with some very good results. There is also the L-39 and Charlie One Oh One that fit the description. 

 

The Yak is a real world trainer and it is a really good aerobatic platform. If you learn the basics of flying and aerobatics on this DCS platform, you can take what you have learned to every other model on DCS and benefit from that greatly.  You can also take what you have learned and fly a real life Yak-52 or even an -18 with similar benefits. You have to learn how to walk before you can run holds true in pretty much everything.

 

The TF-51 is not a dual control aircraft. It basically models a private P-51. It is not a training aircraft for one who does not know to fly anything.  I mean there is really no need to buy a trainer. You can jump straight into a B2 in virtual world or a 747.  No problem. But if you really want to learn how to fly, well the DCS Yak can help with that.


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On 9/18/2021 at 10:46 PM, Callsign112 said:

The Yak generates a lot of lift, and while it is not the most powerful plane, it is also very light. 

 

And what bad techniques will the Yak teach you? Can you explain the basic maneuvers and how the flight model is going to contribute to learning the wrong techniques?

Very light? It's the heaviest aircraft for aerobatics I can think of! 

Weight is your worst enemy in aerobatics, especially when combined with a mediocre power to weight ratio like in the Yak-52.

It severely limits your upward maneuvers, but at the same time it accelerates like crazy when pointing straight down.

 

I haven't used DCS since quite some time, but the last time I checked it, e.g. gyroscopic precession was missing.

IRL, (according to the Yak-52 pilots I've talked to) this means that you need to apply a considerable amount of rudder (especially on the Yak with its heavy and large prop) during the initial pull up. 

You have to be really careful  that the pull up is perfectly straight without a hanging wing. You don't need to do this in the DCS Yak. 

 

 


Edited by bbrz
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1 hour ago, bbrz said:

Very light? It's the heaviest aircraft for aerobatics I can think of! 

Weight is your worst enemy in aerobatics, especially when combined with a mediocre power to weight ratio like in the Yak-52.

It severely limits your upward maneuvers, but at the same time it accelerates like crazy when pointing straight down.

 

I haven't used DCS since quite some time, but the last time I checked it, e.g. gyroscopic precession was missing.

IRL, (according to the Yak-52 pilots I've talked to) this means that you need to apply a considerable amount of rudder (especially on the Yak with its heavy and large prop) during the initial pull up. 

You have to be really careful  that the pull up is perfectly straight without a hanging wing. You don't need to do this in the DCS Yak. 

 

 

 

I've tried to spin it with various configs. I am able to get it into a spin with great effort and deliberately mishandling it, but it then does 4 turns or so and recovers on its own. Not realistic. As has been said, the module has issues. 

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3 hours ago, Baltic Pirate said:

I've tried to spin it with various configs. I am able to get it into a spin with great effort and deliberately mishandling it, but it then does 4 turns or so and recovers on its own. Not realistic. As has been said, the module has issues. 

... which will be fixed.

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5 hours ago, bbrz said:

Very light? It's the heaviest aircraft for aerobatics I can think of! 

Weight is your worst enemy in aerobatics, especially when combined with a mediocre power to weight ratio like in the Yak-52.

It severely limits your upward maneuvers, but at the same time it accelerates like crazy when pointing straight down.

 

I haven't used DCS since quite some time, but the last time I checked it, e.g. gyroscopic precession was missing.

IRL, (according to the Yak-52 pilots I've talked to) this means that you need to apply a considerable amount of rudder (especially on the Yak with its heavy and large prop) during the initial pull up. 

You have to be really careful  that the pull up is perfectly straight without a hanging wing. You don't need to do this in the DCS Yak. 

 

 

 

If we compare the Yak 52 to the CEII, a purpose built Biplane, the Yak has about .16HP/lb while the CEII has about .19HP/lb. The Yak has a wing area of 15 mSquared with a stall speed of 56 mph, while the CEII has a wing area of 11.6 mSquared and a stall speed of 58 mph. While the CEII is purpose built to perform aerobatics and has better performance specs, the Yak is well recognized as a very decent aerobatics platform where it is used by pilots the world over for that very purpose.

 

But the questions I asked were related to your assertion that the Yak is going to teach bad techniques. IMO, learning to fly any plane requires the pilot to acquaint him/herself with the plane being used. You have to learn how the plane responds in-flight and go from there. There are no bad techniques, just the technique that fits the plane being used. I am assuming that you wouldn't go from a CEII to a Yak 52 and expect the plane to handle the same, would you?

 

 

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I don't know why you are including the CEII in this thread. (and you conveniently omitted the fact that the CEII weighs 50% less than the Yak)

It's you who mentioned aerobatic competitions. Both aircraft aren't suitable for such events and not even remotely comparable to real high performance aerobatic aircraft like the Su29 or Extra 300L.

 

Why on earth should someone expect a Yak-52 to handle the same way a CEII does? Did you even comprehend what I wrote? 

The DCS Yak-52 doesn't handle like the real in important areas. 

While these details might not be  important in military aircraft which serve a very different basic purpose (I don't even see the term FLIGHT in DCS), they are IMO essential in a trainer aircraft which should teach you realistic aircraft handling.  


Edited by bbrz
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I am including it because it is an aerobatic Biplane that is faster and has more power/lb than the Yak. So its use is appropriate. And I didn't conveniently omit the fact that it weighs less, it is the reason I used it as an example in answer to your previous comment.

 

You shouldn't expect the Yak to handle like the CEII or any other faster more powerful plane, and that's the point. You learn to fly the Yak to fly the Yak. Does the fact that the Yak is slower mean you can't use it to do aerobatics, or does it just make it harder for YOU? Because a number of pilots are using it for that very purpose, and I will get the module to serve the same purpose. But if your point is simply that it is harder for you to perform aerobatic maneuvers in, or you don't like the flight model in the Yak, then look for another plane to suit your preferences like the CEII.

 

And issues with the Yak 52 have been discussed ad nauseam. We get it, ED still has some work to do with this module. I think your stretching it a little though to suggest that the model isn't even flyable, or that it is so far out that it has no resemblance to realistic aircraft handling.    

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45 minutes ago, Callsign112 said:

I think your stretching it a little though to suggest that the model isn't even flyable, or that it is so far out that it has no resemblance to realistic aircraft handling.    

I don't know if you are trolling or just intentionally misinterpreting what I wrote. Anyway, it's obvious that a further discussion with you doesn't make any sense. I'm out.

Bye.  

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On 9/18/2021 at 1:21 AM, bbrz said:

I don't agree that the Yak takes off more like a jet.  

 

Lower speed means lower energy which in turn makes aerobatics (energy management) a lot more difficult than in faster and higher powered aircraft.

 

Aerobatics in the DCS Yak will teach you wrong techniques, even very basic maneuvers like a loop due to missing basics in the flight model.    

 

@bbrz, I am not trying to misinterpret what you wrote. If I have misunderstood you, then I apologize as that was not the intention. I understand your post as meaning:

 

1. You disagree with the comparison I made in response to another poster about differences between the Mustang trainer and the Yak in terms of the way they take-off and land.

 

2. You don't see value in the Yak as an aerobatics platform as there are faster more powerful aircraft that can make an easier job of it.

 

3. You believe doing even basic maneuvers in the Yak will teach wrong techniques.

 

I disagree with all 3 statements. I agree that the Yak has some issues as already discussed, and the FM wont be complete until they are addressed.

 

Hope this helps understand my point of view. Problems aside, I quite like the DCS version of the Yak 52 in terms of the overall model. Like everyone else, I will be greatly disappointed if ED does not live up to its promise to finish the module, but I am impressed with the level and attention to detail given, and think it will make an excellent addition to anyone's DCS collection once it is fully completed. 

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