Waypoints added by Jester from map marker not working

[Father Cool]

I have a problem where waypoints added to the F10 map and then inputted by Jester in pit are not correct. When I select them they appear to be miles away in the opposite direction. Waypoints added in the ME are working fine. Has anyone else had this issue?

[draconus]

Just tested in latest beta, on Caucasus, SP and it's fine. More info needed.

[Father Cool]

Ok what info do you need? I go into F10 set a marker and call it say target, then in the Jester wheel select navigation and new waypoint from map, select Surface Target and then select the target marker from the options. Jester then taps away and when he's done I select surface target on my waypoints and Jester says ok and then the compass rotates to completely the wrong place and incorrect distance. This was in MP.

[draconus]

18 minutes ago, Father Cool said:

Ok what info do you need?

What server and map?

[Father Cool]

It was a private server on Caucasus. I have it happen on all maps and servers though in the past.

[Father Cool]

Ok I just did several trials on SP and MP and all seems to be ok now. I will keep an eye out in future to see if there is anything amiss when it happens again.

[Father Cool]

Ok went online again last night and the issue returned. OMG I love the cat but jeez the nav system winds me the hell up.

[draconus]

Do give Jester enough time for him to enter the coords or you overload him the next command right away?

[Father Cool]

Yes I always give him enough time. He enters the numbers but the waypoint isn't where it supposed to be. Its not like this every time though.


 

Edited August 21, 2021 by Father Cool

[Super Grover]

Hey Father Cool,

Could you help us with additional information? Did you do a cold start or a hot start? Was it a carrier launch or did you take off from a runway? Were there any INS related warnings displayed?

[Father Cool]

The tests I did that didn't work orginally were cold starts from the carrier INS all ok, ME waypoints working fine. Added mybown as IP and ST. Not correct location.

Testing again was on the same server same conditions as above, this time worked fine. Tried SP from airfield as well, all fine.

Third try different online server hot start on carrier, added IP and ST, not correct. Added points as WP1 etc incase it was a ST thing still no joy.

The fact that this is so hit amd miss makes planning our missions very difficult as we are never 100% sure that manually added waypoints will stick.

Sent from my SM-A715F using Tapatalk

[Father Cool]

Video showing the Jester waypoints not working.

 

 

[Super Grover]

Sorry that I disagree, but actually, the video shows that Jester waypoints are working and that something else might be wrong

I paused when you hovered the mouse cursor over the map marker and noted the coordinates in the left top corner of your screen. They were: N45°18.968' E37°54.314'. Your measured distance was 57.36 NM. When you opened the Jester menu and asked Jester to input those coordinates as the IP, the option you selected was showing NNE 58NM, and it is very close to your measurement from the map. Then Jester started typing the coordinates, and he input N45°190 E37°544, again in agreement with the coordinates of the marker from the map. Jester doesn't use any dedicated interface to the navigation system and uses the same controls as a human RIO, so that I wouldn't blame him this time.

From this, I would conclude that your aircraft position in the INS was wrong. Did you use cold start or hot start? If you (Jester) aligned the INS, was it a full alignment or using ASH (stored heading)?

[Father Cool]

I agree with all of those points and that's my issue, I never said he wasn't entering them correctly I said the ones he entered weren't working when you select them. It appears that Jester inputs the correct figures but then when you select that input afterwards as a steerpoint it is not where it supposed to be. This is not every time and there seems to be no pattern. That example was a hot start on a public server, previously it was a cold start on a private server with an ASH alignment. Before it has also been cold start on a private server with a full alignment. Sometimes it all works just fine and there's no issue as all.

 

You may think the issue is the alignment thinking the aircraft is in the wrong place, I did, however on the one above on the private server with cold start and ASH alignment the waypoints that were added in mission editor still pointed to the correct locations on the map whereas the Jester inputted ones were incorrect at the same time, that wouldn't be possible if the alignment was out. Of course the INS alignment is another issue completely and should never be out from the get go (knocked out by extreme g's etc during flight (although I think that a bit much personally as it adds zero play value) is another thing), I never ever shortcut the process (excepting ASH alignments which are added by our mission creators anyway and should work just fine) and always give Jester plenty of time to add in what he needs to when aligning or inputting waypoints etc.

Edited August 23, 2021 by Father Cool

[Super Grover]

I asked about the cold/hot start to know if there's a pattern that could narrow down the search. If we knew that it happens only after cold start we could focus on the alignment procedure. However, since you wrote that the recorded case was from a hot start, we need to look wider.

 

One note on the ASH alignment - it requires the carrier to keep constant heading from the moment the aircraft is spawned on the deck. Should the carrier turn before the alignment is initiated with a valid CAINS signal, the results of the ASH alignment could be significantly erroneous.

 

Since it was a public server, I guess you don't have a mission file. Could you share the server name, the mission and the slot you chose? Was there more than one aircraft carrier in the mission?

[Father Cool]

DCS-4YA_Cauc_Capture_Base_V3.0_ANAPA_OC

 

That was the public one in the video I believe. Not sure which position I occupied though and not sure whether there's more than one carrier on there.

[Super Grover]

Thank you. We'll try to reproduce the issue on our end.

[Father Cool]

Thanks buddy. 

[draconus]

On 8/23/2021 at 10:13 AM, Father Cool said:

knocked out by extreme g's etc during flight (although I think that a bit much personally as it adds zero play value) is another thing

I and many Tomcat enthusiasts will very much disagree with you on that. It is part of the detailed simulation and it is much appreciated to have it.

[Father Cool]

That's fair enough but I feel there has to be some compromise, there's nothing worse than transiting 150 miles to take out a ground target getting intercepted en route at 125 miles and having to take evasive action only to find that your bombline is now 45 degrees to the side because the INS is out meaning mission over and RTB. 

[draconus]

That's entirely on your piloting. Anything can happen during a mission and that's realistic. There is a backup manual mode for bombing plus alt/speed tables. Really nothing worse? How about dying during landing after perfectly succesful 2h mission? All of this adds to the immersion and is part of the simulation.

[Father Cool]

Well yes agreed, I do get it. Personally though I'd sooner die on landing after a successful 2h mission than fly out for an hour, end up being intercepted only to defend myself successfully, destroy the interceptor, resume course to find the INS shot because of an over G turn and a painful RTB with no objective even attempted. 

 

That being said I have never lost INS because of over G so maybe its all good. However I have lost INS in worse ways such as simply transiting the map, and even for using navgrid FFS. Those are/were bigger issues for me.

[Sacarino111]

Hi.

For the drift or INS drift after DF, check that great video... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YqQz9YrEi6A Don't miss it, really helpful.

Saludos

Saca111

 

[Father Cool]

Thanks great vid that however I'm not sure that can be done in MP with just a pilot. Also all of my previous INS alignment issues haven't been a result of excessive Gs etc, the one in that video above was on deck as I spawned with a hot start. It should have been bang on at that point however the WP1 steerpoint when I spawned in was at a given location, I entered a new steerpoint via jester from map, he entered the correct digits and when he was done the WP1 was still at the original location. He had done the programming but it wasn't selectable as the new location, not sure that its INS that's the issue here.

 

One of my other INS issues has been on many occasions - fine align, take off, steady climb to altitude, program navgrid on route, switch to nav grid, all good, transit for 10 mins, navgrid now slewed off by several miles, keep watching navgrid, navgrid casually progressing across screen to one side, 10 more mins flying and now YY is like 600nm away from where it should be. Select a waypoint, waypoint now 600nm from where it should be. Switch to bomb mode and the drop line is horizontal rather than vertical.

 

These things cannot be anything to do with the alignment process, it must be something to do with MP server alignment desync I reckon?