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Tips for taking off and landing?


Tank50us
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As the title suggests, I'm looking for anyone who can offer serious tips for take off and landing. My take-offs tend to have everyone ducking for cover as the chopper spins like a top despite me giving counter torque, and my landings make my choppers crew chief very upset with my corpse. So, with all that said, does anyone have any useful tips for someone who isn't the best at airplanes with fidget spinners on top?

 

I use a:
Warthog HOTAS, Thrustmaster Pedals (not the expensive ones), Logitech Throttle Quadrant (useful for the Harrier with the nozzles), and two MFD panels.

 

Once I'm actually in the air and stable, I'm fine, but it's getting there and getting back from there that seems to trip me up the most.

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use control overlay.

some use stab... some don't. i find without stab controls are more reactive/not so laggy. 

before takeoff always preset trim. aft and just a little to right.

pull collective slowly till wheels light, the point just before wheels start to lift from ground... using anti-torque, adjust trim so aircraft doesn't tilt/roll or move forward or backward.

if aircraft starts to get away form you, reduce collective and go full weight on wheels... repeat till aircraft inputs need just small inputs to remain light on wheels without tilt/roll or forward or backward movement.

once aircraft can remain light on wheels. look at overlay and take note of anti-torque input needed for aircraft keep a constant heading... not to turn left or right.

reduce collective slowly to full weight on wheels. do not retrim.

once that is mastered. pull collective till wheels light remembering where torque inputs to keep heading.

pick a visual que about 15 ft in front of aircraft and increase collective slowly, use small inputs... every input used will require use of the anti-torque pedals and then adjustment of collective.

its a balancing act... like learning to ride a bicycle. you struggle for awhile then one day it just clicks... some struggle more and some less.


Edited by JimBo*
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Set visual controls (the red window up left). Biggest help is indeed moving the cyclic about 1/4 aft, and slightly to the right, then hit trim. Add rudder, release brakes, and then increase collective until you get light on wheels to check that you have correct rudder input. Increase cyclic until you hover, and take the time to trim correctly. Look  at the controls window, and memorize that setting. Your stick will need to be there whenever you take off or land. 

 

Also helpful: set your cyclic response to a 30% curve on x and y for finer control. 

 

And now you unfortunately need to invest some time into practicing hover, and hover-taxi. The Hind responds very strongly to changes in cyclic (which you have to respond to with rudder), so practice hovering at different heights (5 feet, 10 feet, 5 feet, 10 feet) until you get the hang of how to respond to torque changes with your rudder. When you have that under your belt, the next fun thing to learn is how to slow down from 100 km/h to 5 🙂

 

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Hind takes a lot more right pedal than you think. Push it until it feels right and then push it some more.

On getting light on wheels, I disagree. Hind is high helicopter, with relatively narrow landing gear. That high CG wants to roll you. What I do, especially if heavy, pull just a bit of collective, to spool up the engines and then smoothly pull on collective until in the air. Oh, and release parking brake. Pedal thing from above still applies.

On landing, you want to take your time setting an approach. Don't try to hot-dog it into your landing spot. Slow down in advance, which will give you time to sort out your power and slowly (up to 70 kph) guide it in. And that pedal thing still applies.

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6 hours ago, Tank50us said:

As the title suggests, I'm looking for anyone who can offer serious tips for take off and landing. My take-offs tend to have everyone ducking for cover as the chopper spins like a top despite me giving counter torque, and my landings make my choppers crew chief very upset with my corpse. So, with all that said, does anyone have any useful tips for someone who isn't the best at airplanes with fidget spinners on top?

 

I use a:
Warthog HOTAS, Thrustmaster Pedals (not the expensive ones), Logitech Throttle Quadrant (useful for the Harrier with the nozzles), and two MFD panels.

 

Once I'm actually in the air and stable, I'm fine, but it's getting there and getting back from there that seems to trip me up the most.

 

Fwiw, know that you're not alone on this.

I dare to say, that smooth transition from the ground to being airborne and moving (and vice versa) is the most difficult thing to learn within DCS. Aside from all the good advise above, as brought up before in similar threads, going VR will massively help you.

 

Few years ago, before I went VR, I too had huge struggles in the Huey (and even the Shark) keeping it stable during these transitions. In the end I somewhat managed, but it was only after going VR where I truly mastered it. Probably because of the fantastic depth perception you have in VR. You quite instantly see (or somehow feel) what the helicopter is doing, so you can react to that much faster and intuitively.

 

So, if by any chance you were considering VR, know that aside from being greatly immersed, it'll also really help you.

 

 

Either way, 2D or VR, you'll eventually get there. Good luck!

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9 minutes ago, sirrah said:

You quite instantly see (or somehow feel) what the helicopter is doing, so you can react to that much faster and intuitively.

 

Note that @sirrah nowhere used the word "easy". For a reason. One of the reasons Helicopters are so much fun is because it requires skill. Anyone can bank'n'yank. CATOBAR? Pish posh! Real pilots are Rotorheads 😉 

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And for starters you should, IMO, set your rudder axis curve to -15 to give it an appropriate amount of sensitivity.

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

M-2000C | F/A-18C | F-14B | Bf 109 K-4 | UH-1H | Ka-50 | Mi-8 | SA342

i5-9600K @ 4.8ghz | 32GB DDR4 RAM | RTX 2080

T16000M FCS | TWCS Throttle | MFG Crosswind.V2 Rudder Pedals

"Dialectic"

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Myself...I turn on yaw auto pilot for takeoff and landings only, as its compensates for torque...I don't use or need the control overly as I simply pick a point on the front cockpit panel and eyeball where to set my cyclic(this is done with overly on initially to reference that point, after that its not needed anymore)...for me its the small black button on the lower right area. POV is different for everyone with track IR so adjust. Then its just a matter of applying forward trim (or forward stick).SLOWLY ADD COLLECTIVE .For landing's get low and slow before penetrating ground effect ,slowly drop her in and ride the cushion.


Edited by Raven434th

 

 

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As stated, for appropriate sensitivity. So you don’t have to boot it to the floor constantly. 

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

M-2000C | F/A-18C | F-14B | Bf 109 K-4 | UH-1H | Ka-50 | Mi-8 | SA342

i5-9600K @ 4.8ghz | 32GB DDR4 RAM | RTX 2080

T16000M FCS | TWCS Throttle | MFG Crosswind.V2 Rudder Pedals

"Dialectic"

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Best advice I can give is around 60kph you are no longer flying you are lifting. There is an abrupt change at that speed. If your pitch is not between 7.5 and 9.5 degs you are sinking. Anything over 3m/s vertical rate  and you are crashing into the ground. The Mi-8 tells you that by shaking but the hind does not. As you slow down watch that speed as you approach 60kph you need to be quickly adding pitch up to 7-9 deg to keep from entering VRS

Regards


Edited by Denwagg
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17 hours ago, kotor633 said:

 

Good hover landing tutorial, had not seen it.

Originally, I used the Wags model for hover takeoff.  I think he said trim 2 inches aft and right.  I can hover takeoff but it ain't pretty.

Someone else said put the cyclic in the SE quadrant.  I tried it and liked it.  I think newbies like myself should use taxiway takeoffs.  Trim, let it roll, get lined up, gently add collective.  At liftoff there will be some slight roll.  Gently correct and you will gain speed and altitude with ease.

 

 

Hornet/Viper/Hokum/Hind/Apache/Sabre/Frogfoot

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No one has mentioned that Hind has a hover autopilot, it uses the signals from low speed Doppler indicator to bring you to a hover, it has same limits as Doppler in attitude, if exceeded it turns off. You can also engage the altitude button while hover AP is one and it will hold that altitude based off of radar alt. 

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19 hours ago, S. Low said:

As stated, for appropriate sensitivity. So you don’t have to boot it to the floor constantly. 

So, because of hover requirements (which is, for most people just takeoff and landing), you sacrifice precision in every other situation? 

Not judging, just curious. I prefer my controls to be as linear as possible.

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1 hour ago, admiki said:

So, because of hover requirements (which is, for most people just takeoff and landing), you sacrifice precision in every other situation? 

Not judging, just curious. I prefer my controls to be as linear as possible.

I’ve flown this way for years now in DCS. You absolutely need the precision and responsiveness in landing, take off, and hover. The behavior in game of pedals doesn’t seem to accurately depict how sensitive they are in real life. Add on to that lack of sensitivity a spring and it becomes burdensome. I leave my crosswinds spring in because I frequently fly fixed wing too. Regardless, there’s never been a time when i thought I lacked precision in forward flight with the -15 curve. All corrective pedal actions can be done with less movement.

 

Just try it for a bit to appreciate the increased responsiveness where it’s needed most: takeoff, landing, hover.

 

if you don’t like it then don’t keep it. But I personally won’t go back to neutral curve on pedals.

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

M-2000C | F/A-18C | F-14B | Bf 109 K-4 | UH-1H | Ka-50 | Mi-8 | SA342

i5-9600K @ 4.8ghz | 32GB DDR4 RAM | RTX 2080

T16000M FCS | TWCS Throttle | MFG Crosswind.V2 Rudder Pedals

"Dialectic"

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If you prefer the full travel on your pedals then keep it that way. I think they (dcs rudder axes) aren’t responsive enough and require too much throw for primary tasks. And then newcomers also wonder why they are having to step the pedal all the way over and sometimes don’t have enough to counter the torque. So I routinely suggest -15

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

M-2000C | F/A-18C | F-14B | Bf 109 K-4 | UH-1H | Ka-50 | Mi-8 | SA342

i5-9600K @ 4.8ghz | 32GB DDR4 RAM | RTX 2080

T16000M FCS | TWCS Throttle | MFG Crosswind.V2 Rudder Pedals

"Dialectic"

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On 8/17/2021 at 12:56 AM, Tank50us said:

As the title suggests, I'm looking for anyone who can offer serious tips for take off and landing. My take-offs tend to have everyone ducking for cover as the chopper spins like a top despite me giving counter torque, and my landings make my choppers crew chief very upset with my corpse. So, with all that said, does anyone have any useful tips for someone who isn't the best at airplanes with fidget spinners on top?

 

I use a:
Warthog HOTAS, Thrustmaster Pedals (not the expensive ones), Logitech Throttle Quadrant (useful for the Harrier with the nozzles), and two MFD panels.

 

Once I'm actually in the air and stable, I'm fine, but it's getting there and getting back from there that seems to trip me up the most.

Slow is smooth.  I used to have that problem with my helo too and the tail rotor wasn't strong enough to counteract it.

Yaw AP really helps with this and also increasing cyclic slower too

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Lose weight. More often than not, you don't need that much fuel

Whisper of old OFP & C6 forums, now Kalbuth.

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1 hour ago, Whisper said:

Lose weight. More often than not, you don't need that much fuel

 

This.  Simply put, look in the rearm screen at your takeoff weight. If it is NOT below or close to 100%, you need to wheel it to a runway and do a rolling takeoff. 

 

If you are below 100% you can throw it around like a go-kart. 

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