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What's the secret to getting the throttle to move/rotate during startup?


sirrah
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I've always wondered about this, but now that I'm setting up my new VIRPIL collective base plus with ALPHA-L grip (🤤), I want to know what I'm missing...

 

On cold and dark start, the only way for me to get the throttle to rotate, is to first click-and-drag it by mouse. Why is this?

 

Is there some sort of switch that needs to be pressed in order to rotate the throttle? (I did find the "throttle stop switch" but I'm not really sure what its purpose is, nor does it seem to have any influence on my throttle rotating or not).

 

 

Just in case I'm getting some terminology wrong here, I'm talking about getting this grip to rotate during startup procedures:

 

image.png

 

System specs:

 

i7-8700K @stock speed - GTX 1080TI @ stock speed - AsRock Extreme4 Z370 - 32GB DDR4 @3GHz- 500GB SSD - 2TB nvme

HP Reverb G1 v2 - Saitek Pro pedals - TM Warthog HOTAS - TM F/A-18 Grip - TM Cougar HOTAS (NN-Dan mod) & (throttle standalone mod) - VIRPIL VPC Rotor TCS Plus with ALPHA-L grip - Pointctrl & aux banks <-- must have for VR users!! - Andre's SimShaker Jetpad - Fully adjustable DIY playseat - VA+VAICOM

 

~ No war today... the enemy just called in sick ~ GUMMBAH

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I think there is something screwy with mapping this to an axis. I use a Virpil CM3 throttle and I had a similar issue, using the flaps lever which is an axis. My solution was to map the top and bottom ends of the axis to virtual button presses in the Virpil software, and then use those in game. I believe it's the same mapping as the PAGE UP and DOWN keys for throttle.

Edit: fixed key map, it was PAGE UP and DOWN, not INS and DEL like I originally posted


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2 minutes ago, Zyll said:

I think there is something screwy with mapping this to an axis. I use a Virpil CM3 throttle and I had a similar issue, using the flaps lever which is an axis. My solution was to map the top and bottom ends of the axis to virtual button presses in the Virpil software, and then use those in game. I believe it's the same mapping as the INS and DEL keys for throttle.

 

Ah ok, thanks for your reply.

 

Can anyone else confirm that this is a bug? If so, I'll post this in the appropriate section (or maybe a moderator can move it)

 

@NineLine, @BIGNEWY, do you guys know about this?

System specs:

 

i7-8700K @stock speed - GTX 1080TI @ stock speed - AsRock Extreme4 Z370 - 32GB DDR4 @3GHz- 500GB SSD - 2TB nvme

HP Reverb G1 v2 - Saitek Pro pedals - TM Warthog HOTAS - TM F/A-18 Grip - TM Cougar HOTAS (NN-Dan mod) & (throttle standalone mod) - VIRPIL VPC Rotor TCS Plus with ALPHA-L grip - Pointctrl & aux banks <-- must have for VR users!! - Andre's SimShaker Jetpad - Fully adjustable DIY playseat - VA+VAICOM

 

~ No war today... the enemy just called in sick ~ GUMMBAH

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When cold, the rotation is not done because you have to unlock the throttle before you can turn it.

To unlock it, you must press the PAGEUP key several times so that the cursor passes the iddle ground position

then the rotation of the axis is functional.

In fact, it lacks the ability to unlock with just a button click.
To compensate, I programmed with autohotkey the repetition (~12 press) of the PAGEUP key on a button.

 

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While your procedure is correct, your reasoning is wrong. There is nothing to unlock going from fuel cut-off to idle. Going the other way, there is a switch/latch to press to avoid cutting the fuel off accidentally.

For some reason, DCS does not recognize that part of throttle movement as a part of that axis. My guess is that ED did it that way to give more precision in managing iflight portion of it.


Edited by admiki
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Ok, but long story short, this is a shortcoming (can even be considered a bug) of the Huey module.

 

I mean, the real thing doesn't have a page up key 😉

We should be able somehow bind this function to our HOTAS, without the need of programming some sort of controller macro

 

I'll post this in the bug section, in the hope that someone from ED sees it.

System specs:

 

i7-8700K @stock speed - GTX 1080TI @ stock speed - AsRock Extreme4 Z370 - 32GB DDR4 @3GHz- 500GB SSD - 2TB nvme

HP Reverb G1 v2 - Saitek Pro pedals - TM Warthog HOTAS - TM F/A-18 Grip - TM Cougar HOTAS (NN-Dan mod) & (throttle standalone mod) - VIRPIL VPC Rotor TCS Plus with ALPHA-L grip - Pointctrl & aux banks <-- must have for VR users!! - Andre's SimShaker Jetpad - Fully adjustable DIY playseat - VA+VAICOM

 

~ No war today... the enemy just called in sick ~ GUMMBAH

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in real life to start the huey you turn the throttle to just below the idle position (start position) and then start the engine.

when the engine is started safely you turn the throttle to idle, engage the idle cut off and you can no longer turn the throttle to below idle without disengaging the cut off.

this is a safety feature. to stop you turning the engine off in flight. you cannot turn the throttle to off/closed.

but our sim throttles don't have cut offs. (most of us).

so to make the idle cut off work they have put the range below idle set to the page up and page down keys. not the throttle axis.

its not a bug. because the bug lies with our own hardware. its a design choice.

we cannot reposition the bottom of the throttle. with a cut off.

so this way its setup is a work around.

to fit most game throttles.

and it only effects the cold start and engine shutdown.

not actual flight.

where you have the full range of throttle from full to idle. (but not to off)

of course it does not work if you have a collective and and an idle cut off.

the down side to their design choice.

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My Rig: i7 4930k 4.5Ghz, 16GB DDR3 2400, 2x SSD, EVGA 1080 Superclocked, Warthog Throttle and Stick, MFG Crosswinds, Oculus Rift.

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6 hours ago, Quadg said:

in real life to start the huey you turn the throttle to just below the idle position (start position) and then start the engine.

when the engine is started safely you turn the throttle to idle, engage the idle cut off and you can no longer turn the throttle to below idle without disengaging the cut off.

this is a safety feature. to stop you turning the engine off in flight. you cannot turn the throttle to off/closed.

but our sim throttles don't have cut offs. (most of us).

so to make the idle cut off work they have put the range below idle set to the page up and page down keys. not the throttle axis.

its not a bug. because the bug lies with our own hardware. its a design choice.

we cannot reposition the bottom of the throttle. with a cut off.

so this way its setup is a work around.

to fit most game throttles.

and it only effects the cold start and engine shutdown.

not actual flight.

where you have the full range of throttle from full to idle. (but not to off)

of course it does not work if you have a collective and and an idle cut off.

the down side to their design choice.

 

Ah ok, I understand now. So this is something specific for the Huey? Or do more helo's have this functionality?

System specs:

 

i7-8700K @stock speed - GTX 1080TI @ stock speed - AsRock Extreme4 Z370 - 32GB DDR4 @3GHz- 500GB SSD - 2TB nvme

HP Reverb G1 v2 - Saitek Pro pedals - TM Warthog HOTAS - TM F/A-18 Grip - TM Cougar HOTAS (NN-Dan mod) & (throttle standalone mod) - VIRPIL VPC Rotor TCS Plus with ALPHA-L grip - Pointctrl & aux banks <-- must have for VR users!! - Andre's SimShaker Jetpad - Fully adjustable DIY playseat - VA+VAICOM

 

~ No war today... the enemy just called in sick ~ GUMMBAH

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On 8/14/2021 at 6:59 AM, Tanuki44 said:

I agree with you 👍

I'll just explain what is needed to activate the rotation mapped on an axis

Excuse my bad English expression 😖 

You can't. The DCS axis 0-100% only controls a part of the total throttle twist motion. When the throttle is in a position "less than 0%" it is not changeable by axis input. Maybe a custom LUA axis would allow a total range axis control.

 

LUA line is in axisCommands class

{action = device_commands.Button_26, cockpit_device_id  = devices.ENGINE_INTERFACE, name = _('Throttle')},

Maybe there are some extra attributes you can add to the action to change the axis range. They aren't there by default and I don't remember the file that defines the default axis actions to see about modification.

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On 8/15/2021 at 2:58 AM, Quadg said:

in real life to start the huey you turn the throttle to just below the idle position (start position) and then start the engine.

when the engine is started safely you turn the throttle to idle, engage the idle cut off and you can no longer turn the throttle to below idle without disengaging the cut off.

this is a safety feature. to stop you turning the engine off in flight. you cannot turn the throttle to off/closed.

but our sim throttles don't have cut offs. (most of us).

so to make the idle cut off work they have put the range below idle set to the page up and page down keys. not the throttle axis.

its not a bug. because the bug lies with our own hardware. its a design choice.

we cannot reposition the bottom of the throttle. with a cut off.

so this way its setup is a work around.

to fit most game throttles.

and it only effects the cold start and engine shutdown.

not actual flight.

where you have the full range of throttle from full to idle. (but not to off)

of course it does not work if you have a collective and and an idle cut off.

the down side to their design choice.

I both agree and disagree with you on this.

I agree on your explanation on why it is done this way. I disagree with your stance that it can't be done differently with our hardware. Yes, it can. Just instruct DCS to ignore cut-off part of the axis, unless cut-off safety is pressed. Just like in Mi24, landing gear lever is not reacting to your binding, unless safety latch is moved up (actually, in it's best fashion, ED again messed this up and now you can move landing gear lever with latch down, but it worked correctly on release).

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I use 'AutoHotKey' with this script :

 

    ; ----  'JoyR' is the 4th axis of the joystick ----  'JoyU' and 'JoyV': The 5th and 6th axes of the joystick ---- 97% or if (GetKeyState("JoyR") < 3) 3% along the throttle axis curve 

 

Joy5::                                                 ; Unlock Throttle axis with the button n°5 of joystick - xJoyb : x is the joystick number (nothing if only one) ; b is the number of button
    if (GetKeyState("JoyR") > 97)       ;  Enable the loop function only  if throttle is down  or if (GetKeyState("JoyR") < 3) in the normal or reverse direction of the axis
    {
        Loop 12                                       ; counter for number of pressure 'PageUp'
        {
            SendEvent {PgUp Down}
            Sleep 20
            SendEvent {PgUp Up}

            Sleep 20                                 ; (optional) if the pulses are skipped
        }
    }
return


Edited by Tanuki44
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  • 1 month later...

It's not like we have to press a button to make PgUp turn the throttle twist grip open. So there shouldn't be anything preventing a throttle axis to turn it open as well.

It's bugged. Maybe it's bugged by design but then it doesn't make any sense. I don't see why they didn't fix this long ago.

Don't mix it up with the detent. It shouldn't matter when turning the throttle open. Hence they got it right with PgUp but forgot to copy this functionality to the throttle axis.


Edited by Rongor
I like editing stuff
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3 hours ago, Rongor said:

It's not like we have to press a button to make PgUp turn the throttle twist grip open. So there shouldn't be anything preventing a throttle axis to turn it open as well.

It's bugged. Maybe it's bugged by design but then it doesn't make any sense. I don't see why they didn't fix this long ago.

Don't mix it up with the detent. It shouldn't matter when turning the throttle open. Hence they got it right with PgUp but forgot to copy this functionality to the throttle axis.

 

Completely agree. Call it a bug or a bad design, in any case it should be changed. Just take a look at how it works in the Hornet for example, and make it work like that. Works very well with the HOTAS Warthog which has an idle detent and activates a button press below that which can be mapped to cut-off.

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