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Spring loaded rudder pedals and the Hind


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Hi all,

 

I'm using spring loaded rudder pedals  (Logitech G Flight pedals) but I'm having a bit of a struggle with them in the Hind. I used to fly jets mostly, meaning you can center the pedals 95% of the time. However in the Hind you use pedals all the time, and since the Logitech are spring centered even on the lowest tension setting, keeping them deflected for longer periods of time causes a lot of strain in my legs. Flying longer sorties is no fun that way. In the real MI-24 the damper system of course is made to prevent this, and I've looked into modding the Logitech pedals in a similar fashion, but that would mean A. adding extra components for which I don't have the money and time right now, and B. voiding my warranty.

 

Although it's there for probably exactly this issue, I don't like the rudder trim option because it makes you lose the feeling of in which stance your pedals are (e.g. physical pedals centered, but in-game pedals fully left).

 

I was wondering how other people using spring loaded pedals use them in the Hind (or any helicopter). Anyone willing to share their settings? Or maybe (simple and cheap) mods that don't void the warranty of the pedals?

 

Thanks!

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Hi all,
 
I'm using spring loaded rudder pedals  (Logitech G Flight pedals) but I'm having a bit of a struggle with them in the Hind. I used to fly jets mostly, meaning you can center the pedals 95% of the time. However in the Hind you use pedals all the time, and since the Logitech are spring centered even on the lowest tension setting, keeping them deflected for longer periods of time causes a lot of strain in my legs. Flying longer sorties is no fun that way. In the real MI-24 the damper system of course is made to prevent this, and I've looked into modding the Logitech pedals in a similar fashion, but that would mean A. adding extra components for which I don't have the money and time right now, and B. voiding my warranty.
 
Although it's there for probably exactly this issue, I don't like the rudder trim option because it makes you lose the feeling of in which stance your pedals are (e.g. physical pedals centered, but in-game pedals fully left).
 
I was wondering how other people using spring loaded pedals use them in the Hind (or any helicopter). Anyone willing to share their settings? Or maybe (simple and cheap) mods that don't void the warranty of the pedals?
 
Thanks!
I have the cheapo TM pedals. It's a cover under it, one screw, after a little practice you can remove the spring with your fingers in a couple of seconds, and re-install it in like 30.
Apart from that I would like to add a damper anyhow. It's cheap, and I wish they were wider. Someone made a 3D printed mod for that, somewhere on the forum.
Now, this doesn't really help you, but I'm posting here for others to read, and maybe giving you some ideas. I'm not worried about warranty at all, as I probably will get some highends eventually. Too bad the Slaws seems to not be available anymore, as those are the ones I want.
I also have some really old TM RCSs, I ha e also modded, but they need a little bit more work. Removed the spring as well, want to add a board and a magnetic sensor and dampers to make them Standalone, right now they go through my Cougar.
Maybe this can be an option if you can find them real cheap.
Cheers!

Sent from my MAR-LX1A using Tapatalk

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Hi.

Saca here, from Spain. I also have spring loaded pedals (Saitek Combat pedals), like you,, mostly for jets. To me, having the peddals deflected some degrees for normal flying is not an issue, as I can lower the tension and so it'isis not so much of an effort to keep them there, and I keep the "felling I need" for flying. My advice: lower the spring tension, fly normally. Your legs won't do so much work.

Saludos.

Saca111

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Posted (edited)

Thanks for the replies!

 

Removing the spring from the pedals is a no go for now since it voids my warranty (still have one year, would like to keep the pedals original until then). I've specifically bought the Logitech pedals back then because they are relatively wide and were in my price range. I've had CH products pedals before, and although they were very nice in build quality and spring tension, they were so narrow that longer flights were not so pleasant to my manly parts 🤡

 

I have the spring tension on the Logitechs set at its lowest already, but it's not low enough for usage in helo's IMHO


Edited by Koekemoeroetoe
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It was probably saved at the wrong end ... Until recently, I also had this plastic crap from Thrustmaster, until I treated myself to the Crosswind. Removing and reassembling the spring is no longer an issue. 

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Yeah, the Crosswinds... I'm dreaming of them, but including the hydraulic damping (that IMHO is a must) they'd cost me €400 including taxes and shipping. In comparison, the Logitech pedals have cost me €140, slight difference (and not to forget that I managed to sell my previous CH products pedals + yoke for €120).

 

Of course getting Crosswinds is the ultimate fix, but unfortunately I'm not in the position to "just" spend €400 when also having to maintain a household, a kid, Ms. Koekemoeroetoe, a car for work etc. so I'll have to make do with what I've got right now and maybe save up for something like the Crosswinds eventually.

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I have custom rudder pedals, usually use a centre spring but have since moved to a damper, its a big change and I am still getting used to it. 

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I like the hind a lot because it has a good implementation of the heading hold autopilot. This gets rid of the need to deflect your pedals all the time. It automatically disables during pedal use and when you recenter your pedals, it engages again with that new heading as a reference.

 

I pretty much keep it on all the time except for landing

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I still have the need to keep the pedals deflected in many flight regimes though, despite having yaw AP turned on. It only eliminates the need to constantly micro-adjust your pedal position, that's something the AP does for you, but at least in my case I still need to keep the pedals in a general deflected position that matches the current attitude, airspeed etc. If I do center the pedals, either quickly or really slowly, the yaw AP is not able to keep the helo in the heading I want it to fly (while if I keep the pedals deflected it does manage to). I think that also is the way it should work, right? (Note that I don't have rudder trim enabled)

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I know that I might come across snobbish, but please hear me out: my leisure time is dear to me, and I (especially since corona) am spending a lot of time flying DCS. To me, DCS Time qualifies as 'Quality Time', which is at a premium - so I decided not to skimp on hardware, chucked my Saitek pedals and went with new Virpil rudders when I started Helicopter flying a few months ago. The difference is astounding: much better control, less strain, and a definite, massive, uptick in comfort. These pedals are incredibly well built, and (more applicable to you) allow me to simply unhook the centering spring in a second (without any tools), and re-hook them in a similar amount of time

 

Seeing that I've already spent more than 220 hours flying with the new pedals, I'm definitely getting more out of them than what I paid for in difference to more affordable ones. That being said, I'm currently almost exclusively flying helicopters (Huey and Hind), and admit that I do not use the pedals that extensively when flying my fixed-wing planes (usually Hog and Bug). So if you also think that flying time is valuable, you may think about investing into first rate hardware (I've also replaced all my other controllers with more high-end versions), the increased amount spent per hour is negligible when you fly a lot (or what a cinema ticked costs per hour). IMHO, of course.

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I have custom rudder pedals, usually use a centre spring but have since moved to a damper, its a big change and I am still getting used to it. 
Can you guys please implement the pedal microswitches in the Hip and Hind!!!!

Sent from my MAR-LX1A using Tapatalk

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Hello everyone. 

 

Flying correctly a chopper in DCS will require some changes with the hardware if you guys are flying jets. As you might already have noticed, there is almost nothing in common between the two worlds. Regarding the rudder, it is a much more essential piece of equipment than for FW because you will be working with it, a lot, all the time during every phase of flight. Yes rudders don't go back to center in choppers. I performed the damper mod on two of the rudders I am using to fly choppers:

On the TPR:

 

On the MFG:

 

I know this is a bit radical if you are planning to fly both worlds so not an ideal solution for you guys. For me I never fly jets or FW in general (not challenging enough 😁).

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The experience of flying in a real military sim and seeing/feeling how the pedals actually work convinced me to first remove the centering spring, and subsequently perform the damper mod Bad CrC linked above. 

 

If you're after a "feels like the real thing" experience with RW, this is absolutely the way forward. 

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Posted (edited)

 

Thanks for the reactions all. Nice to see everybody has some suggestions for equipment and also most end up using a motorcycle steering damper and remoing a center detent/spring. Different ideas, all leading to a similar solution. Although I agree nothing beats just buying the right equipment for the job is the best solution, sometimes that is just no option due to the (rather high) cost of said equipment. For me right now that's the case, and while I do have the luxury position that I'm actually able to save up money to eventually buy pro equipment, right now I just can't afford it. And keep in mind a lot of people out there won't even be able to save up enough money for luxury goods like this in their entirly life. 

 

That's why my initial question basically was, how to "make do" with what I've got right here, right now and make use of the maximum potential of the flight gear (and not discussing that this potential is, of course, way less than the pro-grade equipment).

 

For now I see several "options":

- Don't do anything with my pedals, just live with it. If needed learn to use rudder trim.

- Void warranty and at least remove center detent and spring. Maybe add steering damper.

- Buy pro equipment (not viable for me right now, need to save up money).

 

On 8/11/2021 at 3:39 PM, cfrag said:

I know that I might come across snobbish, but please hear me out: my leisure time is dear to me, and I (especially since corona) am spending a lot of time flying DCS. To me, DCS Time qualifies as 'Quality Time', which is at a premium - so I decided not to skimp on hardware, chucked my Saitek pedals and went with new Virpil rudders when I started Helicopter flying a few months ago. The difference is astounding: much better control, less strain, and a definite, massive, uptick in comfort. These pedals are incredibly well built, and (more applicable to you) allow me to simply unhook the centering spring in a second (without any tools), and re-hook them in a similar amount of time

 

Seeing that I've already spent more than 220 hours flying with the new pedals, I'm definitely getting more out of them than what I paid for in difference to more affordable ones. That being said, I'm currently almost exclusively flying helicopters (Huey and Hind), and admit that I do not use the pedals that extensively when flying my fixed-wing planes (usually Hog and Bug). So if you also think that flying time is valuable, you may think about investing into first rate hardware (I've also replaced all my other controllers with more high-end versions), the increased amount spent per hour is negligible when you fly a lot (or what a cinema ticked costs per hour). IMHO, of course.

 

I don't find your reaction snobbish, actually I share your vision regarding how quality time is premium and may cost premium money. Take for examply my pc, I upgraded it a few months ago after die-hard saving money for more than a 1,5 years and had to postpone the purchase several times due to circumstances. But it was worth every penny, because I get so much joy out of it and finally I can play DCS and other games without having constant crashes, having to fiddle around in settings to even get it running properly etc. while on average only having about 4-5 hours per week of time to game. With my old PC, eventually I ended up 1-1,5 hours per week of just tweaking to keep things running, but I just had to make do because I couldn't upgrade earlier.

But that doesn't take away the fact that sometimes the money just isn't there. And actually, I'm already really privileged that I actually already could purchase the Logitech pedals, the PC upgrade and all other stuff I do own. I know people who can't even just buy food...


Edited by Koekemoeroetoe
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Did you try to activate the Rudder Trimmer option in the Special Tabs settings for the Hind ?

It also trims the rudder on pressing the trim button on the stick, which means you can recenter your rudder once you have trimmed your hind for your flight regime. That avoids too extreme rudder position and leg tension

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Yes I did try it, but I didn't like the feel of it because you lose the feel of in which position your pedals are (physical pedals and in-game pedals get desynced obviously). But I'm starting to think if I shouldn't just try to get used to it. I really would like to have a separate "reset rudder trim" command then though...

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I fly with those old Simpeds and finally ended up removing those springs completely. After a while, I got along quite well, constantly keeping an eye on the bank indicator ("kicking the ball"). In combination with the HSI, you get a certain feeling for it after a while. Besides, it is the most realistic way of simulating the real thing. Also no springs or damper in the old Thrustmaster HOTAS Cougar. Just a 20 cm extension. Keeps you busy...😀

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