Change AMD 5900 for intel? Advice please

[Thinder]

36 minutes ago, reece146 said:

RE: RAM - yes, agree, there is not much in it with respect to 3200CL14-14-14-3X and 3600CL-16-16-16-3X. At least for Intel. IIRC for AMD the 3600 has it's advantages since the stock setting Infinity Fabric runs at 1800... RAM should be in multiples of 1800MHz and if you overclock then the RAM should be in multiples of whatever the Inf Fabric is set to... 1900 Inf -> 3800 RAM for example. It's not something I've messed with - just regurgitation of what I've read online in the usual places.

 

In their reply to me, MSI mentioned this particular point and there is no notion of optimum set ups there only ballance between latency and memory frequency, what you guys mention are possible settings not what works best with the new Ryzen.

 

All of them have simular controllers limits, and if I am not sure about Intel, you can bet that if they mention a maximum frequency of 3200MHz it is for a good reason, there is a limit as they say, to what those controllers can cope with, the higher the frequency and rank number, the lower the limit.

 

And I forgot to mention the fact that those possible settingd are for gamers using this Cl14/1 X rank kind of RAM, preferably B.Die because the chips are more stable and allow for a tighter control of frequencies and settings.

 

IF their processor is good enough to take the extra speed (for the exact same CPU not all of them perform the same), then they can think of O.C, but AMD not only doesn't recommand it but also it nulify your warranty.

Edited August 14, 2021 by Thinder

[BitMaster]

Actually, you could be right. I wish I had a 5900X here and a few RAM kits to test this.

 

What is not good, as you said, is 4x2R. But that is also usually stated in the QVL and CPU Spec Sheet. If you want to go 128GB you need 4 x 32GB-single Rank iirc. Anyway, those kits are rare and not the norm, 64+GB is imho too much for dual channel but times have changed and I honestly say DCS will make use of more than 32GB RAM in certain scenarios.

For me, I do VMware and can make use of 64 or 128GB as long as I have enough cores and I/O, no worries there  LoL.

 

64GB 3600CL16 is very expensive anyway, for the same money you can get 128GB 3200CL16 or if you want...32GB 3200-14-14-14-34.

If I buy, I buy at least 64GB, maybe if I go 16core I get the 128GB 3200-CL16 quad-kit.  next 2 months I will pull the trigger, either that or a new Apple M1/M1X, need to spend the dough.

[Thinder]

27 minutes ago, BitMaster said:

Actually, you could be right. I wish I had a 5900X here and a few RAM kits to test this.

 

What is not good, as you said, is 4x2R. But that is also usually stated in the QVL and CPU Spec Sheet. If you want to go 128GB you need 4 x 32GB-single Rank iirc. Anyway, those kits are rare and not the norm, 64+GB is imho too much for dual channel but times have changed and I honestly say DCS will make use of more than 32GB RAM in certain scenarios.

For me, I do VMware and can make use of 64 or 128GB as long as I have enough cores and I/O, no worries there  LoL.

 

64GB 3600CL16 is very expensive anyway, for the same money you can get 128GB 3200CL16 or if you want...32GB 3200-14-14-14-34.

If I buy, I buy at least 64GB, maybe if I go 16core I get the 128GB 3200-CL16 quad-kit.  next 2 months I will pull the trigger, either that or a new Apple M1/M1X, need to spend the dough.

 

Well, let's say I try to keep myself informed and to do so, I just emailed AMD on this precise topic quoting this particular RAM kit, right or wrong I'll post the reply, because he needs the infos to sort his issues.

 

I prefer to bet on a CPU which is not going to throttle down due to a RAM bottleneck even if I have only 32GB today, my guess is that RAM manufacturers are already working on the next generation or RAM suitable for the next AMD socket, then the problem will be solved, we'll have to change everything.

 

In passing, the G.Skill kit cost me <> £80 more than the Crucial kit (without postage from the USA) it replaced and since I wanted a faster PC while avoiding O.Cing it, I got the best deal possible, only looking at the cost of a quality liquid cooler, Newegg sells the 64GB kit at $562^.60, £405.77.

 

G.SKILL TridentZ RGB Series 64GB (4 x 16GB) 288-Pin DDR4 SDRAM DDR4 3200 (PC4 25600) Desktop Memory Model F4-3200C14Q-64GTZR

 

Obviously, at the rate the gaming world is evolving, we'll need more than 32GB of RAM sooner than later, for the time being, I worked hard enough at eliminating this RAM bottleneck and succeded, but it was mainly thanks to people who knew about this solution.

 

So until such a day I'll keep this set up, since it is first meant to be a budget one eliminating the need for CPU O.C and keeping the whole thing under warranty as well.

 

Next stage when I got the dosh and opportunity will be to replace my GTX 1080Ti which is very good I must say but is the source of one bottleneck because this CPU is capable of handling a 3080 without any problem and still the GPU would be the source of bootleneck, although way below 10%, then go back to VR with one of the new kits.

 

 

Edited August 14, 2021 by Thinder

[markturner1960]

Thanks for the input, must admit, a lot of it is over my head, but will be interested in the reply from AMD…… 

[Thinder]

I can understand that you need to rely on PC manufacturers combos for your gaming, not everyone is into spending time and (seemingly money because at the end of the day you can get better performances for lower cost) money for your gaming PC build, but I will try to keep it simple: Your PC is not configured to play games.

 

There have been major changes in the behavior of RAM kits to Ryzen 5 generation due to the CPU new architecture, myself tested back to back my old 3600X and 5600X with the old Cl 16 3200MHz kit and witnessed and increase of 21% performance during testing with 3DMark Pro at 4K.

 

When a 3600X would react better with an increase in RAM frequency, the 5600X or your 5900X are tailor-made for precisely the opposite, they react much better to lower latency than higher frequency, In any case, sticking to AMD recommanded RAM frequency is a good idea (3200MHz).

 

Motherboard/CPU are equaly important, they determines the way your RAM is used, forget about the "Scan 3XS" part of your signature and replace it with the Motherboard make, model and BIOS/BIOS update, this way people will be in a better position to help you.

 

Motherboard manufacturers are releasing BIOS updates with new timings that provide far better performances with high quality RAM (B.Die), in many case, when you swap RAM with and updated BIOS, you don't even need to change BIOS settings, the timing are already in the BIOS IF properly updated and your RAM kit is supported by your motherboard manufacturer.

 

The number of RAM sticks is also playing a much larger role with 5000, because of interleaving, the controller can use the sticks more efficiently than the previous Ryzen 5 generation and there is a clear gain in a 4 X1 confiuguration over a 2 X 1 sticks configuration.

 

Here I reiterate: You do not need 64GB of RAM to play DCS or any other game for that matter, for £347.99, the cost of your RAM kit, you could have a much higher quality one giving you much tighter timings your motherboard and CPU can use its and your CPU give you its own best performances.

 

Instead, they fited a high latency, high frequency RAM much more tailored to an average secretary job than what is requiered for online gaming, and not within AMD recommanded specs for RAM, AMD does not support their higher CPU frequencies with this kit.

 

This lead me to think that those are kits can't be sold otherwise, 3200MHz Cl14 X 4 sticks kits are outperforming other non B.Die kits by up to 10% and 3600 MHz B.Die rarely outperform them, mostly because 3600MHz is already above the AMD recommanded (UP TO) frequency limit and will cause your CPU to throttle down when its limites are reached.

 

So at the end of the day, your RAM is simply not performing as well as one B.Die kit despite its speed and capacity, we don't need to wait for AMD reply to my email to be afirmative on this point, I too await for their reply but I wouldn't be expecting them to reply fast, every support teams are in a mess due to Covid-19 restrictions and lock-down.

 

I canot tell you what to do, but in your case, being in the UK, I would replace the RAM anyway, it is not properly bounded to your CPU for a starter, buy one B.Die kit to replace it then sell your actual kit to CEX. I've done this myself but it was done as part of a planed multi-stage upgrade since I needed to replace defective parts on my previous PC in emergency.

 

Alternatively, you could try to contact your PC manufacturer and get an exchange deal for a 4 X 1 rank, 3200MHz, Cl14 RAM kit after making sure your motherboard manufacturer and BIOS supports it, this last bit is up to you, do your reseach work, don't rely blindly on people who sell PCs and bits for a living.

 

Edited August 18, 2021 by Thinder