So If We Are Getting the Meteor, Why Not More Modern AIM-120’s?

[DCS FIGHTER PILOT]

   This post will probably receive a lot of hate, (and that’s okay I am used to it :)), but since Heatblur is developing the Meteor, why can’t ED or another third party make the newer Aim-120’s , ie. the c7 and D? I am well aware that there is very little public data to go off of when developing these missiles and they would be more of less estimates of the real deal, but is that not the case for the meteor? I would imagine that data for that is even more scarce than the newer AMRAAM’s but I could be wrong. Same goes for the more modern Russian missiles, why not attempt to model those?

Edited August 7, 2021 by DCS FIGHTER PILOT

[Tippis]

5 minutes ago, DCS FIGHTER PILOT said:

I am well aware that there is very little public data to go off of

That's why.

Also, in before “none of our aircraft can carry those”.

Also in before “not needed”.

Also in before “there is no reason why the spamraam must always be the best”.

 

But it's really the first one.

[DCS FIGHTER PILOT]

32 minutes ago, Tippis said:

That's why.

Also, in before “none of our aircraft can carry those”.

Also in before “not needed”.

Also in before “there is no reason why the spamraam must always be the best”.

 

But it's really the first one.

So why are they even dreaming about modeling the Meteor? 

[nighthawk2174]

Due to the novelty of the meteors motor there are a few academic papers out there discussion in great detail the most plausible operation of the motor.  From these we will probably get the most accurate sim of the motor without access to actual test data.  CFD exists for the other aerodynamic properties and should give a reasonable accurate representation for our needs.  The C7 and D, from my knowledge, lack even these professional estimates.  With there being so little data on the D its ironically probably harder to make a rendition of then the meteor.

[kseremak]

But is Heatblur already confirmed 100% they are doing Meteor? German Eurofighters will receive Meteor implementation only THIS year. 

 

Regardless of Meteor, AMRAAM already made air combat shallower and easier. Adding some super modern unrealistic AIM-120D, without access to any data, giving it even bigger range, will make the air to air even more monotonous and even less authentic.

 

 

 

[DCS FIGHTER PILOT]

The big problem that I see is everyone will only want to fly the Eurofighter when it comes out. Those that won’t be able to fly it, or the very few who have no interest in flying it, will get absolutely slaughtered in MP or will have all of their kills stolen. I mean let’s face it, the c5 and the planes that carry it in DCS right now, won’t be able to hold a candle to the Eurofighter and the Meteor. The fact of the matter is, the Eurofighter and Meteor, as cool as they are, don’t fit into DCS world, as they are just far too modern. I suppose it will be up to the servers to limit the amount of Eurofighters in the air, the number of meteors they carry, or both. 

Edited August 7, 2021 by DCS FIGHTER PILOT

[Tippis]

30 minutes ago, DCS FIGHTER PILOT said:

So why are they even dreaming about modeling the Meteor? 

Because it is wholly irrelevant to anything that deals with modelling the AIM-120, and vice versa.

 

The data, and availability of data, of one tells you absolutely nothing about the other.

 

13 minutes ago, DCS FIGHTER PILOT said:

The big problem that I see is everyone will only want to fly the Eurofighter when it comes out.

Nah. Not any more than “everyone” flying the Viper or Hornet or Jeff or indeed any other plane in the game. Airquake meta is a non-issue because 1) it is trivial to solve, and 2) it doesn't matter to anything anyway.

Edited August 7, 2021 by Tippis

[kseremak]

1 hour ago, DCS FIGHTER PILOT said:

The big problem that I see is everyone will only want to fly the Eurofighter when it comes out. Those that won’t be able to fly it, or the very few who have no interest in flying it, will get absolutely slaughtered in MP or will have all of their kills stolen. I mean let’s face it, the c5 and the planes that carry it in DCS right now, won’t be able to hold a candle to the Eurofighter and the Meteor. 

 

I understand you, but do you really want to fly 2021 standard Meteor Eurofighter P2Eb software against 15 years older F/16 or F/A-18?

The first Meteor missile is being integrated with German Eurofighter in 2021 together with P2Eb software. Hornet has been retired from US Navy long before the first German Meteor Eurofighter fly. Not mentioning our 2006 F-16 and F/A-18 had different systems and avionics later on. This kind of mission would be a final fantasy. 

If some server set Eurofighter with Meteor and i.e. Hornet it's probably some so called "airQuake module soup", for fun.

 

If you want you can set a mission with WWII Mustang and 15 years more modern 1960 MiG-21 with missiles and say it's not balanced, but it would be the case only because the mission would be a complete fantasy, only for fun. Some countries, like Canada, still used P-51 in 1960 for special duties, but it doesn't mean such scenario would be even remotely realistic.

 

 

1 hour ago, DCS FIGHTER PILOT said:

The fact of the matter is, the Eurofighter and Meteor, as cool as they are, don’t fit into DCS world, as they are just far too modern. I suppose it will be up to the servers to limit the amount of Eurofighters in the air, the number of meteors they carry, or both. 

 

If HB will make some 2004-2007 early German A/A Eurofighter it will kind of fit few the most modern DCS modules, including F-16C CCIP and F/A-18 Lot 20, but if they make some 2021 version with Meteor, I agree it will not fit anything.

But i.e. I-16 Rata also doesn't fit anything. That's the disadvantage of sandbox comparad to chosen historical period/war with proper map, assets, aircraft versions and so on like in example Flaming Cliffs 3 where everything fits each other; map, aircrafts, asssets, timeline.

Edited August 7, 2021 by kseremak

[Tank50us]

Here's the reason we likely won't see the AIM120D any time soon, outside of the available data:
None of the available fighters in DCS are rated to carry the thing.

 

In the US Military, the F-22, F-35, F/A18E/F, and later models of the F-15E are rated to use the D, all of the others are stuck with the C for varying reasons, but the chief reason is a lack of radar range to be able to see the target within AIM120D weapons parameters. Of the few have that have versions capable, only the F-15C is a viable choice as it's FC3 and can just have another missile option added with comparatively little effort. But, given the fact that ED won't be messing with the FC3 aircraft, don't hold your breath.

 

The best option for us getting an AIM120D, would be if someone was able to get enough data to make a proper Super Hornet. But until then, yeah, the EF2000 is gonna have a field day on post 2003 Servers

[Napillo]

On 8/8/2021 at 12:03 AM, Tank50us said:

the F-15E are rated to use the D

but, we are getting the F-15E...

[Rick50]

but not all E's can use the D, only SOME "E's"...

[Northstar98]

I think the F-16 should get AIM-120C-7 AMRAAM P3I.3 (which entered service in 2007), but if they can't get any data on it, then it's a non-starter.

The AIM-120D AMRAAM P3I.4 has the same problem with data as the C-7, to an even greater degree, plus its own issues.

Firstly, it has functions (namely cooperative engagement capability) that DCS doesn't currently support (the AGM-62B Walleye II ER/DL, AGM-84E SLAM and AGM-84H SLAM-ER should all support cooperative engagement capability, but that function isn't present in DCS).

Secondly, the missile is way newer than what our current modules represent. The AIM-120D is from 2016, the F-15C from 2003, F-16CM from 2007 and the F/A-18C from 2005. All these aircraft had been substantially upgraded and we're very unlikely to see any of them (heck, getting things we should have is enough trouble as it is).

Edited June 6, 2022 by Northstar98