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Mi-24P - Fuel and Weapons. The right choice for the right mission


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For sure, the Mi-24P Hind is a terrible beast with a lot of possible firepower BUT the beast is heavy and fast so it needs fuel !
It's then quiet important to determine precisely what you can bring with you to engage the target(s) depending of the distance between your take-off, target and landing areas.

 

This weekend I did some tests to determine, depending on the weaponry I wanted to carry, what my flight time was and the distance I could cover.
You will find in appendix the details of my first 2 tests which took into account the armament and the weather from a cold start in a parking area.

 

The aim is obviously to get a discussion on it, but here are my main conclusions:

  • If rockets are needed: preferably UB-32 launchers. Smaller rockets but more numerous and above all enormous weight and therefore fuel savings

  • If only against light vehicles and infantry : 2x GUV-8700 pods (12.7 + 2x 7.62mm). That's all! The two 30mm side cannons + two pods give a lot of firepower and ammunition capacity. If the rocket launchers are added, the range of the Hind will be considerably reduced.

  • Anti-tank engagement: Maximum 8 x Shturm. No rockets. Prio 1 : SAM+AAA  Prio 2 : Tk   Pio 3 : IFV + APC

 

It is also interesting to know that from the first fuel warning there are +/- 13 to 14 minutes of flight time left (cruising speed 250Km/Hr with straight flight and constant altitude).
Under the same flight conditions, when the second fuel warning comes on, there will be only 7 minutes of flight time left.

Test 2 Fuel Mi-24P.jpg

Test 1 Fuel Mi-24P.jpg

Test 1 Fuel Mi-24P.jpg

Test 2 Fuel Mi-24P.jpg


Edited by Razorback
Correction
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Posted (edited)

My Mi-24P weight sheet.

Remarks, comments, corrections and additional information are more than welcome...😉

 

Post updated !
Don't use the Pdf Doc (deleted). Some inputs are from the stable version and are not correct !
Ex : 2 x Shturm = 230 Kg but in fact the value is in Lbs !!

 


Edited by Razorback
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A note on the rockets - Just looking at the data on them in wiki, the S8OFP2 rockets are going to be far superior to any others in the same pod/class.  

 

According to the data, they are more recent design, have a lot more explosive, further range, and better accuracy.  

 

I had already found by experiment that they killed more stuff in DCS per shot than the others did on the Ka-50.

 

Nice planning work all around.

 

How are you arriving at a fuel burn rate? It seems like you just extrapolated from actual flight. 

 

The takeoff type has something to say here too - You can absolutely take off well over MGTOW, but you'll be doing a rolling takeoff. And you will need to forgo hover work until you either shoot some rox or burn some fuel. 

 

Another wrinkle is that maneuvering flight on target (e.g. setting up ATGM runs, gun/rox runs, etc) will burn more fuel than the transit flight will. 

 

Being in a RW squadron, I'd just request a FARP be stood up by the UH boys, but that doesn't mean you get to set aside the planning work like you did here. 

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I can take off vertically just fine with 110% MTOW at 20 degrees Celsius with dust protection on. 
 

the OFPs are nice but they almost never damage armor in my experience so I always take KOMs to fight armor since they’re HEAT. Do you all actually get OFP2 to kill armor APC/IFV/tanks? 

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Just take mixed rockets, some on one side and some on the other.  She can give you options if you're willing to play with the load out and test stuff out.  Assuming that any load out that isn't a premade won't work is a defeatist attitude. 

 

I stand by my weird FAC load out, but the range of the engagements I'm usually in are not very far.  As well as the simple fact that I tend to have support from both a Ka-50 (You will NEVER replace the Ka-50 with the Hind when it comes to destruction, the ability to smash 16 ground units is just too big of a flex) and fixed wing aircraft.  

 

I spend most of my missions spotting ground units with smokes, calling in arty to dig them out, and running around near the Ka-50 to be his spare eyes.  Freeing him up to attack targets more patiently and safely, knowing that anything that ventures too close meets a Hind In The Face.

 

60% gas @ Farps

80% gas where you have room to rolling takeoff. 


4 Shturms on the left wing

Tested this multiple times on and offline, it works just fine.  You don't need to have them split between sides.

 

A smoke rocket pod on the inner left pylon

The S-8s are so easy to use for rocket spotting, the big bright orange cloud they leave is insanely visible, along with being able to ballpark rockets out to 6km with just a little practice.  Probably much further with more dedicated work.

 

Inner and middle right pylon get a mixed S-8 load, one pod is HEAT the other is HE.

Secondary target doesn't matter, you have a rocket for it.  Be it infantry in a small forest, trucks on a road, or apcs.  Though, the reality of the situation is you don't need the HEAT rockets, your gun shreds most things just fine.  Anything your gun can't shred can eat an ATGM, which will probably be a safer attack than to use rockets.

 

Nothing on the far right wingtip.

You might could take 2 more shturms, but I haven't tested it and the weight of them would really cut into how much gas I'd be comfortable taking.

 

Let Petro do his weapon setup in peace on the ground to burn some gas then go.  You can fight literally anything but fast movers with this setup, toss smoke for friends to spot with, fight armor, or stomp on soft targets.  Yes, she's going to be a bit side heavy, and will stay in a weird balance state as you use weapons, but you become a multi-role monster.  

 

When the time comes, depending on where R-60s can be placed, I plan on adding one to this setup, just to increase flexibility further.    Probably replacing the HEAT rocket pylon, but it depends on if the R-60 can play with rockets at all.

 

The gun pods are, no matter how much I love them, a total waste of time.  7.62 is okay if you're fighting trucks and want to save real ammo, the 12.7 is brutal to most things but you have a fantastically accurate 30mm cannon already built in.  The 30mm grenade launcher pods are interesting, if difficult to use.  With practice they're effective against infantry, but lock you into a rocketless build.  

 

The larger rockets are interesting, but I've had little practice with them.  I've had more practice with the bombs and cluster munitions, both of which make you an action movie hero to use, but I think I'd rather leave them to the fixed wing boys.

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7 hours ago, fargo007 said:

How are you arriving at a fuel burn rate? It seems like you just extrapolated from actual flight. 

 

The takeoff type has something to say here too - You can absolutely take off well over MGTOW, but you'll be doing a rolling takeoff. And you will need to forgo hover work until you either shoot some rox or burn some fuel. 

 

Another wrinkle is that maneuvering flight on target (e.g. setting up ATGM runs, gun/rox runs, etc) will burn more fuel than the transit flight will. 

 

Being in a RW squadron, I'd just request a FARP be stood up by the UH boys, but that doesn't mean you get to set aside the planning work like you did here. 

Fuel burn rate : input from a Mi-24P flight manual

Regarding the rolling TO, you will for sure consume less fuel compared to a vertical and hoovering TO --> So Prio 1 if possible

My 2 tests in transit flight was to demonstrate the Max flight time and distance during transit flight. It is certain that for all other types of flights these data will obviously be different and more restrictive. 

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2 hours ago, AeriaGloria said:

I can take off vertically just fine with 110% MTOW at 20 degrees Celsius with dust protection on. 
 

the OFPs are nice but they almost never damage armor in my experience so I always take KOMs to fight armor since they’re HEAT. Do you all actually get OFP2 to kill armor APC/IFV/tanks? 

APC/IFV easily done. With some luck even T-55 can be killed.

9 minutes ago, Razorback said:

Fuel burn rate : input from a Mi-24P flight manual

Regarding the rolling TO, you will for sure consume less fuel compared to a vertical and hoovering TO --> So Prio 1 if possible

My 2 tests in transit flight was to demonstrate the Max flight time and distance during transit flight. It is certain that for all other types of flights these data will obviously be different and more restrictive. 

These are numbers I got from my tests. 2x rocket pods and 4x ATGM.

Screenshot (142).png

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1 hour ago, Fenin said:

I spend most of my missions spotting ground units with smokes, calling in arty to dig them out, and running around near the Ka-50 to be his spare eyes.  Freeing him up to attack targets more patiently and safely, knowing that anything that ventures too close meets a Hind In The Face.

You call for AI artillery strikes? Now that's something really interesting, can you please tell me how you do it??

I don't understand anything in russian except Davai Davai!

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I always take off with max fuel and max load out. I simply do running take offs and pull collective at 70+ kph. At the mountain helipads on the Caucasus region and in the Syria map on multiplayer, regardless of temperature, I do running take offs over the edge and dive into the valley, picking up speed and transitioning from an aerodynamic brick into a flying machine. I love finding the limits of the machine and then exploiting them. 


Edited by Rabies
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Rockets really aren't the best choice for any kind of deliberate attack on armor at all, as we find things right now in DCS anyhow.

 

Especially on anything with a 30mm cannon. It will just saw you in half, and outranges your rocket attack by quite a bit. 

 

If I'm close enough to be shooting rockets at MBT class armor or anything with a 30mm cannon in DCS (e.g. BMP3) out of the hind, it means one of these things:

 

1 - It popped up suddenly. I'm shooting defensively and scooting.

 

2 - I'm out of Shturms, and so is the rest of my flight. 

 

3 - I'm somewhat liquored up, and yelling "LEEEEEEEROYYY  JENNNNNKINS!!!" 

 

But yes, the OFP's will kill them. The warhead has 5kg more explosive than the KOM's.  16kg vs 11. 

 

In each case though, you need direct hits  on the armor which we all know is supremely difficult to do, and equally unpredictable. With an MBT, multiple direct hits. 

 

 


Edited by fargo007
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9 hours ago, Stratos said:

You call for AI artillery strikes? Now that's something really interesting, can you please tell me how you do it??

I contact a ground forces player over SRS and have them do it with combined arms.  

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