mk82 CCIP mode

[Viciam1]

Hey guys,

So whats the best way to destroy ground targets with the mk82 in ccip mode? Its hard. I'm trying to put the marker on the target but I always miss

 

Any suggestions? and CCRP is useless too.

[Exnom]

They are dumb bombs, the closer you release them at your target, the bigger is the chance to hit it.

In my eyes the best way is to dive on your target, let the piper slowly move on your target and the release them. Thats how it works for me. 

[Viciam1]

2 minutes ago, Exnom said:

They are dumb bombs, the closer you release them at your target, the bigger is the chance to hit it.

In my eyes the best way is to dive on your target, let the piper slowly move on your target and the release them. Thats how it works for me. 

Which bomb do you normally use?

Also, which bomb is the b49 on the sms page?

[Xavven]

There are really in depth training documents and videos on the subject but the pointers that helped me the most were:

• Don't perform a negative-G nose-over (don't push the stick forward into a dive). Fly up to the left or right side of the target as if you were flying the base leg of a traffic pattern and turning to final, except the glide slope is more like 30 or 45 degrees   Roll in to the target (pretend it's the runway) and pull positive G while entering a dive.
• Roll out gently so that the target is bracketed by your pitch ladder. Don't worry about the CCIP bomb fall line yet. Just get the target horizontally between your pitch ladder and level your wings.
• Next you choose your Aim Off Point (AOP). This means putting your flight path marker past the target by some distance. The closer the AOP to the target, the closer you're going to be when you pickle, and vice versa. There are tables and charts for choosing the correct AOP depending on your dive angle, speed, altitude, etc. but it's certainly possible to learn it by feel. Experiment until you get the general idea if you want.
• Next I put in a little bit of forward stick pressure in order to hold the AOP stationary (or close to it). Definitely not enough to get to 0 or negative G, but I often end up with less than 1 G.
• Fly that way, making gentle corrections as necessary, allowing the CCIP pipper to climb up to the target from the bottom of your HUD. I haven't learned yaw correction personally, so I just use roll to correct for left-right error. Pitch should not be used to move the CCIP pipper up and down the HUD -- it should only be used to hold the AOP stationary, and you let the pipper track up the HUD naturally. Then you just time your pickle button for when "the thing is on the thing"

 

 

[HalasKor]

1 hour ago, Viciam1 said:

Which bomb do you normally use?

Also, which bomb is the b49 on the sms page?

B49 should be the MK82 AIR bomb, the high drag 500lbs bomb with a ballute to slow it down. If I am going to use an unguided bomb to try and "accurately" hit targets, usually I will use Mk82. If I need to hit a high threat target, or a target in a high threat area, and I only have dumb bombs, I would likely use Mk82 snake eye. The high drag bombs are meant to be used in clusters and from low altitude and shallow dives or level flight. High drag bombs are very inaccurate.

[SCPanda]

On 7/31/2021 at 6:18 AM, Viciam1 said:

Hey guys,

So whats the best way to destroy ground targets with the mk82 in ccip mode? Its hard. I'm trying to put the marker on the target but I always miss

 

Any suggestions? and CCRP is useless too.

Few tips:

1. 20-30 degree dive, don't drop the bomb too high (depends on the size of your target, a tank sized target I usually start the dive from 5000-6000ft, ship sized you can go higher) or too low (risk of damaging your jet).

2. Use the CCIP fall line to aim at your target, stable your jet during the dive, zero throttle, wait for the cursor to come up and meets the target.

3. Use zoom, the bigger the zoom the better, when the cursor comes up and meets the target, press weapon release. 

4. After weapon release, zoom out, pull up to 15 degrees, push the throttle, then you can roll your jet 90 degrees, turn you head towards your left or right wing(which ever is pointing to the ground and watch the target go boom!) 

 

CCIP with MK82 should be more accurate than CCRP. CCRP is better with precision guided bombs like JDAMS and GBUs. 

Edited August 4, 2021 by SCPanda

[b0bl00i]

That's interesting. Your are obviously doing something wrong. The ccip pipper in the Viper is super accurate and it's very easy to use once understood. I can snipe what ever I like with it. Including plinking tanks. 

 

I'm often 10k feet or higher at around 400 knots or higher. Unless I'm engaging sams ofc. 

 

Approach the target, nose offset either left or right. One you have your target roughly a fist above the hand rail, start ejecting, flares roll in to your target, dive at least 25 degrees, line up the pipper with the target and pickle. Come off the target, climb away while releasing flares. Requires some practice but once you get the basics, it's very accurate! The Viper and they F14 is my favorite planes to ccip in. 

 

Check Wags CCIP/CCRP tutorial and replicate. 

 

As stated above, use zoom to quickly find your target! 

Edited August 4, 2021 by b0bl00i

[bonfor]

On 8/4/2021 at 6:01 PM, b0bl00i said:

The ccip pipper in the Viper is super accurate

...it used to in the previous stable release. Did anybody try with the latest stable (2.7.6.13436) ? I had maybe 80-90% accuracy with CCIP before, just tried again and it fell to 10%? I swear I am not drunk

 

[b0bl00i]

You'll miss I noticed if you are out of envelope.. don't be too fast and make sure you are at the right dive angle

[Meatshield]

I'm not sure if its effect on the aimpoint is implemented, but if you have the TGP and the laser armed and fire the laser as you aim/release, it's supposed to switch to the laser as the range source for the most accurate CCIP calculation.

[darkman222]

Interesting that that topic pops up. I was about to post about CCIP too. I felt that my accuracy was not as good as expected. I practiced on a server on which you'd start in a cold jet. Did a stored alignment. My bombs were off the same amount and direction on every target.

Then I took the track replay, created a mission of it, and placed me starting in the air, skipping the startup procedure that way. My bomb impacts were just a little offset. Way less than they were when starting in a cold jet.

 

So I am wondering about 2 things:

 

Does INS alignment quality affect CCIP? Stored vs Norm?

 

And does the CCIP system compensate for crosswind? The server has just 2-4 kts crosswind set for lower altitude, but its clearly not 0. Of course the bomb cant correct itself like guided bombs. But does the system include crosswind in its calculations or does it just assume 0 crosswind?

Edited October 13, 2021 by darkman222

[Tigerian]

5 hours ago, darkman222 said:

Interesting that that topic pops up. I was about to post about CCIP too. I felt that my accuracy was not as good as expected. I practiced on a server on which you'd start in a cold jet. Did a stored alignment. My bombs were off the same amount and direction on every target.

Then I took the track replay, created a mission of it, and placed me starting in the air, skipping the startup procedure that way. My bomb impacts were just a little offset. Way less than they were when starting in a cold jet.

 

So I am wondering about 2 things:

 

Does INS alignment quality affect CCIP? Stored vs Norm?

 

And does the CCIP system compensate for crosswind? The server has just 2-4 kts crosswind set for lower altitude, but its clearly not 0. Of course the bomb cant correct itself like guided bombs. But does the system include crosswind in its calculations or does it just assume 0 crosswind?

 

Aligning stored vs norm shouldn’t have an impact. With the current implementation of INS in the 16 you get the same quality of alignment with either method.

 

CCIP definitely does factor in wind. You might not notice it in lower winds but I’ve seen the BFL pushed off the side of the HUD during high winds.

[Frederf]

INS position keeping doesn't matter. INS attitudes and velocities would. Stored is theoretically inferior to norm but it's got to be a tiny effect especially with a good stored alignment plus the continuous trimming from GPS input. I don't think in DCS alignment quality is a thing anyway, status 60 10 6 whatever. If you can find different accuracy performance at various INS statuses that would be 1. new info 2. commendable simulation.

"Wind corrected" is weird. 90% of wind correction is handled by the fact that the airplane knows its track. So the target is say 360 north. The nose might be placed 355 left to track through the target. Watching the situation from directly above the shadow of the airplane will pass nearly directly over the target. The fact that the nose was 5 degrees left of directly at the target isn't the bomb aiming compensating for wind because the bomb aiming doesn't care about heading, only track. The wind correction to track over target is handled by the fact that aiming is aligning the motion (not orientation) of the airplane.

There is however a component of wind effect on the bomb in addition to the track. The shadow of the airplane shouldn't pass exactly over the target during the attack but slightly upwind. The amount to offset the track upwind is the amount that the bomb would drift during the ~5s fall if you rolled the bomb off the side of a few hundred foot tower. You can imagine that a bomb is a dense hunk of metal. A 10 knot breeze isn't going to accelerate it much laterally in a few seconds of free fall, maybe 10, 20ish feet.

In WWII level bombing this effect was characterized as the lateral component of bomb trail. Bomb trail was how far behind the airplane the bomb would impact. In a world without air resistance this was 0 as the velocity in the horizontal plane is unchanged by gravity. The shadow of the airplane and bomb would overlap all the way down. But there is a trail, maybe 1000' from a reasonable altitude because the bomb being a glider slows down while the engined airplane does not. The lateral drift of the bomb was the bomb trail times the sine of the wind correction angle. I.e. for a 1000' trail, 3° angle the lateral drift was 52'.

If you just point the jet at the target and let the wind blow it sideways the miss laterally will be 100s if not 1000s of feet. If you point the nose upwind so the airplane tracks through the target (shadow passes over target) then the miss is 10s of feet. If you offset the track upwind by the drift then you get a hit.

[silverdevil]

my results are with CBUs so there may be differences. video i watched said as you turn into the target and the dive, place the velocity vector at a point 1000 feet 'above' the target. then keep flying down your dive. when the pipper hits the target, release the bombs. keep the cross above the pipper.

[skywalker22]

Why is Mk-82 and Mk-82 AIR Ballute designated as B49 on SMS page? Is this how is suppose to be IRL? And is there is logic in it? 

[Tholozor]

50 minutes ago, skywalker22 said:

Why is Mk-82 and Mk-82 AIR Ballute designated as B49 on SMS page? Is this how is suppose to be IRL? And is there is logic in it? 

The Mk-82 AIR is fitted with the BSU-49 tail assembly. IIRC, standard low-drag 82s should be listed as M82.

Edited August 30, 2022 by Tholozor