** Announcing DCS: Eurofighter by Heatblur Simulations & TrueGrit!! **

[Dragon1-1]

3 hours ago, TLTeo said:

They keep going back and forth on that though. Currently it's not on the list of planned payloads, just the Litening.

Actually, as of today it very much is in the roadmap, slated for 2022. Understandable, since it's a complex piece of kit, and we already have a TGP.

[TLTeo]

Haha that's hilarious, I wrote my post going by the old "planned payloads" sticky and that changed again with the lastest one

[MRTX]

Tbh. i don't really mind the missing A2G capabilities at launch, since i see the eurofighter more as an air superiority fighter with A2G capabilities. So its bread and butter will always be A2A engagements.

 

And the German Eurofighter only features a rather limited arsenal of A2G ordnance, which consists of paveways , JDAMs and Taurus. And we'll only be left with the Paveways and JDAM's since Taurus is still highly classified and needs very thorough mission pre planning and can't be used for TOO or simple PP attacks afaik.

Yes A2G capabilities for the Eurofighter will be a nice addition but its far from being a highlight of the module.

[kseremak]

12 hours ago, MRTX said:

Tbh. i don't really mind the missing A2G capabilities at launch, since i see the eurofighter more as an air superiority fighter with A2G capabilities. So its bread and butter will always be A2A engagements.

 

And the German Eurofighter only features a rather limited arsenal of A2G ordnance, which consists of paveways , JDAMs and Taurus. And we'll only be left with the Paveways and JDAM's since Taurus is still highly classified and needs very thorough mission pre planning and can't be used for TOO or simple PP attacks afaik.

Yes A2G capabilities for the Eurofighter will be a nice addition but its far from being a highlight of the module.

 

I think the same. Air-to-ground is exciting with dedicated ground pounders like A-6 Intruder, A-7 Corsair, Su-17, Su-25A, analog A-10, F-111, '80s Tornado IDS and so on, where it requires skill, taking risk and fight.

Modern fighter releasing automatic guided Storm Shadow from 300 miles from the target and RTB, not doing anything or risking anything, please..

 

Eurofighter is going to be exciting as a fighter in air combat.

[notproplayer3]

As long as I can still drop some iron bombs it's gonna be perfectly fine to me.

On a slightly different subject, can we assume MWS or a TGP are going to be present on the typhoon ? Or are they a feature of only the newest tranches and blocks ? 

[MRTX]

vor 3 Stunden schrieb notproplayer3:

As long as I can still drop some iron bombs it's gonna be perfectly fine to me.

On a slightly different subject, can we assume MWS or a TGP are going to be present on the typhoon ? Or are they a feature of only the newest tranches and blocks ? 

MWS/MAW consisting of AMIDS should be a guaranteed feature since it was available from day 1 for the Eurofighter, the only question i have if Truegrit will integrate target classification for it or not.

 

Overall AMIDS will be a really cool system since in contrast to other MWS/MAW its radar based and therefore features a way higher detection range.

 

When it comes to the TGP, since the eurofighter is solely using PGMs it wouldn't make much sense to integrate those without a TGP.

Edited August 1, 2021 by MRTX

[QuiGon]

4 hours ago, notproplayer3 said:

As long as I can still drop some iron bombs it's gonna be perfectly fine to me.

 

German Eurofighters don't have general purpose bombs. Same is true for all Eurofighters except Kuwaiti Eurofighters, which are the only ones to have GPBs on their Eurofighters AFAIK.

[Cobra847]

On 7/31/2021 at 1:42 PM, shagrat said:

So you think the True Grit Team will cease work on the Eurofighter and twiddle thumbs until Heatblur's two unknown Modules are released?

I doubt that.

It's more likely to be developed in parallel by the True Grit Team, but with access to code, experience and support from Heatblur. It is a Joint Venture, not a Take-Over... At least to my understanding.

So my guess is we see the Eurofighter progress in parallel with other modules from Heatblur, much like most companies develop different products or product versions in parallel, rather than in sequence.

In this particular project; Heatblur is shouldering practically 100%, or at least very close to it, in active engineering and programming burden.  We will clarify more on this as we go! This is a wonderful, symbiotic partnership in many ways, but the Heatblur team will indeed be the primary developer of the Eurofighter's codebase.

The timeline and how we are currently applying resources towards each project is a little complex and I can't clarify further until we've fully announced our coming roadmap. That said, we expect the A-6 to arrive after the A2A Eurofighter. 

[MiG21bisFishbedL]

32 minutes ago, Cobra847 said:

In this particular project; Heatblur is shouldering practically 100%, or at least very close to it, in active engineering and programming burden.  We will clarify more on this as we go! This is a wonderful, symbiotic partnership in many ways, but the Heatblur team will indeed be the primary developer of the Eurofighter's codebase.

The timeline and how we are currently applying resources towards each project is a little complex and I can't clarify further until we've fully announced our coming roadmap. That said, we expect the A-6 to arrive after the A2A Eurofighter. 

Can we get a complete breakdown of who is doing what in regards to the teams? HB's doing this, TG that, etc.
 
You know, so we can assign blame praise, appropriately!

Edited August 1, 2021 by MiG21bisFishbedL

[AG-51_Razor]

Cobra847, thanks for your input here! Just to be absolutely clear, when you say that the A-6 will arrive at some point after the A2A Eurofighter, are you referring to the AI Intruder, or an A-6 Intruder module??

[Wizard_03]

2 hours ago, Cobra847 said:

In this particular project; Heatblur is shouldering practically 100%, or at least very close to it, in active engineering and programming burden.  We will clarify more on this as we go! This is a wonderful, symbiotic partnership in many ways, but the Heatblur team will indeed be the primary developer of the Eurofighter's codebase.

The timeline and how we are currently applying resources towards each project is a little complex and I can't clarify further until we've fully announced our coming roadmap. That said, we expect the A-6 to arrive after the A2A Eurofighter. 

That sounds like a perfect setup TBH, you guys have experience with the DCS side of things, and they know the jet. You need both. So Its win, win, win. For you guys, For TG, and the users.

[Cobra847]

1 hour ago, AG-51_Razor said:

Cobra847, thanks for your input here! Just to be absolutely clear, when you say that the A-6 will arrive at some point after the A2A Eurofighter, are you referring to the AI Intruder, or an A-6 Intruder module??

I mean the module.  The AI versions of the A-6 will be released far before that.

[RG2021]

On 7/25/2021 at 6:22 PM, Mirage-4000 said:

 

No developer, in my opinion, should be concerned about "Unbalancing" issues. When I buy a model, I expect the developer to have done it perfectly, or at the very least to have made an effort so that we can enjoy a realism experience.

 

The server host is the person who should be concerned with balancing.

Oh yeah, I agree! DCS isn’t about being balanced. Hell aircraft IRL are meant to be as “overpowered” as possible!

[AG-51_Razor]

Thanks again Cobra!!

[IronMike]

The FAQ has been updated for these two points:

 

Q: How is development of the Eurofighter split between TrueGrit and Heatblur?

 

A: The Eurofighter will be developed and published by Heatblur, and co-developed by TrueGrit through the addition of subject matter expertise, development support and technical resources. TrueGrit will continue to hold and manage the license agreement with Eagle Dynamics as well as other parties and trademark owners.

 

 Q: What version of the Eurofighter will you focus on?

A: We will focus on a German version of the Eurofighter that may draw from several different Eurofighter versions. For one TrueGrit has its roots in the German fighter community; for the other an amalgamation of different versions lends itself most to what can be achieved and would be allowed to be depicted from the Eurofighter in DCS. As such, and as in real life, the DCS : Eurofighter will be released in steps. The initial release will orientate itself around a Luftwaffe version with air to air capability only.

There are different ways of wording what we're executing, but a specific one would be to say that it's an amalgamation. Service Eurofighters are frequently, rather chaotic, partial upgrades and evolutions, and we are leaning on this fact in order to strike a balance between three important pillars of a DCS aircraft: content (how much do you get for your money?), usability (how relevant and fun to use is this in a simulator/DCS World?) and feasibility (can we do this and make sure it's realistic with the data available?). 

Viewed through this lens, we're not shy to note that our Eurofighter is unlikely to match any real example you could point to, specifically. That isn't by itself unrealistic - again referencing how haphazard the real fleet can be - but we do feel that it is the right balance between the important pillars listed above. It's important to stress the fact that everything we do create and implement will be as realistic as we can possibly make it. This drives the final feature set, more than any specific tranche or serial. There will be no egregiously unrealistic or fantasy Eurofighter- but there will be liberties taken with ensuring that we can do what is possible, and ensure the most rich feature set in such a modern high fidelity module.

[Silver_Dragon]

36 minutes ago, IronMike said:

The FAQ has been updated for these two points:

 

Q: How is development of the Eurofighter split between TrueGrit and Heatblur?

 

A: The Eurofighter will be developed and published by Heatblur, and co-developed by TrueGrit through the addition of subject matter expertise, development support and technical resources. TrueGrit will continue to hold and manage the license agreement with Eagle Dynamics as well as other parties and trademark owners.

 

That turn TrueGrit on a "none" 3rd party with not develop own modules?

[QuiGon]

1 hour ago, Silver_Dragon said:

That turn TrueGrit on a "none" 3rd party with not develop own modules?

 

They will remain a 3rd party as I understand it, as they will still hold all the licenses:

 

1 hour ago, IronMike said:

TrueGrit will continue to hold and manage the license agreement with Eagle Dynamics as well as other parties and trademark owners.

 

Also, as I understand it, they will still do some of the actual development, probably with a focus on the art side (modeling, texturing):

 

1 hour ago, IronMike said:

co-developed by TrueGrit through the addition of subject matter expertise, development support and technical resources.

 

Edited August 3, 2021 by QuiGon

[shagrat]

Am 1.8.2021 um 16:30 schrieb QuiGon:

 

German Eurofighters don't have general purpose bombs. Same is true for all Eurofighters except Kuwaiti Eurofighters, which are the only ones to have GPBs on their Eurofighters AFAIK.

So hopefully we get the capabilities of a Eurofighter modeled and not the German government funding issues...

I've read somewhere around 2017/18 there were actually barely enough A/A missiles available for about 4(?) of the German Eurofighters. So even if we assume the press was exaggerating and overly pessimistic, if we go for timeline correct implementation based on weapons available, instead of what the plane is capable to employ we are in for a nasty surprise, I guess.

[QuiGon]

2 hours ago, shagrat said:

So hopefully we get the capabilities of a Eurofighter modeled and not the German government funding issues...

 

That has nothing to do with German funding issues. All Eurofighter users except Kuwait don't have GPBs for their Eurofighters, not just Germany. The reason is not money, but the need for precision, which GPBs don't provide.

[Skysurfer]

3 hours ago, shagrat said:

So hopefully we get the capabilities of a Eurofighter modeled and not the German government funding issues...

I've read somewhere around 2017/18 there were actually barely enough A/A missiles available for about 4(?) of the German Eurofighters. So even if we assume the press was exaggerating and overly pessimistic, if we go for timeline correct implementation based on weapons available, instead of what the plane is capable to employ we are in for a nasty surprise, I guess.

 

Yeah, which doesn't really matter for DCS as every jet in DCS represents a perfect airframe with potentially an unlimited munitions stock, unless set otherwise in the mission.

[Hummingbird]

2 hours ago, QuiGon said:

 

That has nothing to do with German funding issues. All Eurofighter users except Kuwait don't have GPBs for their Eurofighters, not just Germany. The reason is not money, but the need for precision, which GPBs don't provide.

 

Well the lack of PIRATE and delayed acquisition of the meteor missile, despite it being mainly a German development, was a funding issue. Hopefully the latest order for 78-93 new EF's won't cut on spending, ensuring they come with all the bells and whistles now available (PIRATE, AMK, AESA etc)

Edited August 3, 2021 by Hummingbird

[shagrat]

vor 6 Stunden schrieb QuiGon:

 

That has nothing to do with German funding issues. All Eurofighter users except Kuwait don't have GPBs for their Eurofighters, not just Germany. The reason is not money, but the need for precision, which GPBs don't provide.

I was more concerned about Meteor, Taurus, etc.

 

We cut the PIRATE for cost reasons, which is a bloody good addition for an Interceptor, especially with sensor fusion concept.

 

Anyway the thing is to accurately represent the capabilities, so in DCS depending on mission or environment we can use general purpose bombs and not being stuck with LGBs.

Also I assume German Pilots still learn and train "normal" bomb delivery with and without computer assisted modes.

So though the operational need is currently not dropping large amounts of cheap bombs on larger areas, do pilots train the respective techniques?

[shagrat]

vor 6 Stunden schrieb Skysurfer:

 

Yeah, which doesn't really matter for DCS as every jet in DCS represents a perfect airframe with potentially an unlimited munitions stock, unless set otherwise in the mission.

Yep, but recently there is a trend to reduce weapon loadout to represent "realistic" availability of weapons based on timeframe for airframes, reflecting more the budget, acquisition and weapon stock situation, rather than the airframe capabilities.

From my point of view, DCS modules should reflect the capabilities, only.

Country A did not buy weapon X (yet)? But the aircraft can deploy it? 

Weapon Y was cleared and tested, but never used (until today), but could any time? Then it should be modeled.

[Wizard_03]

Happy there is going to be more game play options, but I can definitely see this turn into a pandora's box, of "hey the aircraft just got this new thing last week, can it be added to game" or "hey there's a promotional image of some future technology being demonstrated, can we add that too?" Or "Hey they hung this weapon on a static display of the jet, so it should be in the game too!"

 

There's a good reason Most Devs and ED go with specific time frame/Operator, It limits development number 1, and it adds real world constraints to the aircraft number 2. What my concern is; this is going to turn into, is some super, mega, hyper, giga fighter, that is basically a concept of what the designer would like the aircraft to be able to do, rather then an actual eurofighter you might encounter in the wild. In real life, countries have budgets, systems get dropped, weapons don't get implemented. You are never going to find a jet that can do everything the designers intended for it to be able to do. They don't exists in a vacuum like they do in DCS. Also By setting an expectation of time period/operator developers can have a solid reference point for roadmap, feature lists, and completion criteria. But by not setting any expectation for us end users I worry this could become,

 

Less representative of actual modern air combat, more airquake/war thunder, alt history simulator.

 

That's my Hundred cents. lol Hopefully HB/TG can strike a good balance and give us something close the real "Eurofighter Experience" That's really what I'm interested in, the actual day to day, 9 too 5, reality of being a pilot for one of these monsters. If that can pull that off, I'll be happy. I think they achieved that with the tomcat so I'm optimistic.

[MRTX]

vor 47 Minuten schrieb Wizard_03:

Happy there is going to be more game play options, but I can definitely see this turn into a pandora's box, of "hey the aircraft just got this new thing last week, can it be added to game" or "hey there's a promotional image of some future technology being demonstrated, can we add that too?" Or "Hey they hung this weapon on a static display of the jet, so it should be in the game too!"

 

There's a good reason Most Devs and ED go with specific time frame/Operator, It limits development number 1, and it adds real world constraints to the aircraft number 2. What my concern is; this is going to turn into, is some super, mega, hyper, giga fighter, that is basically a concept of what the designer would like the aircraft to be able to do, rather then an actual eurofighter you might encounter in the wild. In real life, countries have budgets, systems get dropped, weapons don't get implemented. You are never going to find a jet that can do everything the designers intended for it to be able to do. They don't exists in a vacuum like they do in DCS. Also By setting an expectation of time period/operator developers can have a solid reference point for roadmap, feature lists, and completion criteria. But by not setting any expectation for us end users I worry this could become,

 

Less representative of actual modern air combat, more airquake/war thunder, alt history simulator.

 

That's my Hundred cents. lol Hopefully HB/TG can strike a good balance and give us something close the real "Eurofighter Experience" That's really what I'm interested in, the actual day to day, 9 too 5, reality of being a pilot for one of these monsters. If that can pull that off, I'll be happy. I think they achieved that with the tomcat so I'm optimistic.

 

Since the available data about Eurofighter is very sparse, we will probably never get to this point. For example, every weapon available for the German Eurofighter is either confirmed or it obviously can't be integrated due to classification or mission preperation required for its use. (just hinting at Taurus) 

 

Thing is, most weapons and systems the community ask for implementation into other modules are already in use for a long time and the needed documentation is mostly available so its within a reasonable area to ask for them (although it might be unrealistic), but Truegrit/Heatblur is already trying to integrate pretty much everything they can which is not classified so there is not much left to ask for.

And yes there will always be idiots who will ask for the latest and greatest tech for the Eurofighter but pretty much everybody else understandands that it just can't be done due to classification.

 

Overall, i think there is not much to worry about.

Edited August 4, 2021 by MRTX