SD10 Lofting vs ECM??!

[Breakshot]

Since the last patch it appears the missile is somehow lofting vs a jamming target whereby it should not.

 

I think this has got something to do with the latest round of ED updates removing this capability from Aim-120 which causes a MP desync.

 

Please have a look into this so the hotfix covers the SD10 as well.

 

Thanks

Edited July 22, 2021 by Breakshot

[uboats]

check if burnt through, if yes, radar can have dist info, then sd10 can loft.

[Breakshot]

check if burnt through, if yes, radar can have dist info, then sd10 can loft.

Negative. Shots are like 70km away. Manual pitch up. Missile 'lofts' because its using Variable PN.

How is this possible without range data?

@Deka please have a look at the standard set by 120C from ED with regards to ECM, lofting and PN.

Missile should have simple PN on a jamming target.

Отправлено с моего STV100-2 через Tapatalk

[uboats]

3 hours ago, Breakshot said:

Negative. Shots are like 70km away. Manual pitch up. Missile 'lofts' because its using Variable PN.

How is this possible without range data?

@Deka please have a look at the standard set by 120C from ED with regards to ECM, lofting and PN.

Missile should have simple PN on a jamming target.

Отправлено с моего STV100-2 через Tapatalk

 

trk, i just tried, no loft

[Breakshot]

10 hours ago, uboats said:

trk, i just tried, no loft

No you are not understanding. The missile, due to adaptive PN can be lofted manually by a high pitch up angle.

 

Remove variable PN for guiding on ECM target as no range info is available. It should just be fixed PN like the 120.

[BlackPixxel]

11 hours ago, uboats said:

trk, i just tried, no loft

 

It does not loft, but it can still be 'lofted' thanks to the variable PN.

 

The following happens: At long distances to the target the PN coefficient is very low, so the missile will only slowly turn towards the target when fired from an upwards angle. So it is still able to perform some form of loft.

 

But for variable PN to be used it needs range information, which is denied when engaging a jamming target beyond burnthrough distance.

 

For that reason, ED disabled variable PN for the Aim-120 when the target is using ECM. It would be great to see the same with the SD10.

[uboats]

1 hour ago, Breakshot said:

No you are not understanding. The missile, due to adaptive PN can be lofted manually by a high pitch up angle.

 

Remove variable PN for guiding on ECM target as no range info is available. It should just be fixed PN like the 120.

 

7 minutes ago, BlackPixxel said:

 

It does not loft, but it can still be 'lofted' thanks to the variable PN.

 

The following happens: At long distances to the target the PN coefficient is very low, so the missile will only slowly turn towards the target when fired from an upwards angle. So it is still able to perform some form of loft.

 

But for variable PN to be used it needs range information, which is denied when engaging a jamming target beyond burnthrough distance.

 

For that reason, ED disabled variable PN for the Aim-120 when the target is using ECM. It would be great to see the same with the SD10.

How did ED fix that? any log?

[Breakshot]

Its in the new patch from Wednesday. But patchlog only mentions removal of loft dynamic. But PN was also set correctly

 

[uboats]

further checked, for jamming target, sd10 is in HOJ mode. if launched with a pitch up angle, although sd10 will fly up to higher altitude, it will be finally guided to the elev where the strongest signal is from (so it will look like a 'loft'). this is not a problem

 

  

2 hours ago, Breakshot said:

Its in the new patch from Wednesday. But patchlog only mentions removal of loft dynamic. But PN was also set correctly

 

PN is a static param and once in game, it cannot be changed. also there's no api to change PN

Edited July 23, 2021 by uboats

[Breakshot]

18 hours ago, uboats said:

further checked, for jamming target, sd10 is in HOJ mode. if launched with a pitch up angle, although sd10 will fly up to higher altitude, it will be finally guided to the elev where the strongest signal is from (so it will look like a 'loft'). this is not a problem

 

  

PN is a static param and once in game, it cannot be changed. also there's no api to change PN

 

Perhaps it is a good idea to clarify with ED on what PN params they are using for the 120 HOJ to bring the SD10 to the same standards of modelling.

[Blinky.ben]

I’m a little confused about all this. The SD-10 is forced into a loft manually by the pilot pitching up by 8degrees or more. So I would think ranging information is irrelevant for the lofting feature for the SD-10 cause it’s up to the pilot if that should happen or not. You can Loft a SD-10 at a target 5nm away it won’t loft much but it will do it.

 

as for the Aim-120 the system determines when it should or shouldn’t loft correct? You can’t force an Aim-120 to loft on something only 8nm away like you can with the SD-10 or you can’t force the Aim-120 not to loft on a target 30nm away but you can make the SD-10 fly straight at targets at longer ranges. So I don’t get why the SD-10 would be forced not to Loft when the pilot manually decide when to loft or not with or without range data?

Edited August 1, 2021 by Blinky.ben

[dundun92]

On 8/1/2021 at 7:31 AM, Blinky.ben said:

I’m a little confused about all this. The SD-10 is forced into a loft manually by the pilot pitching up by 8degrees or more. So I would think ranging information is irrelevant for the lofting feature for the SD-10 cause it’s up to the pilot if that should happen or not. You can Loft a SD-10 at a target 5nm away it won’t loft much but it will do it.

 

as for the Aim-120 the system determines when it should or shouldn’t loft correct? You can’t force an Aim-120 to loft on something only 8nm away like you can with the SD-10 or you can’t force the Aim-120 not to loft on a target 30nm away but you can make the SD-10 fly straight at targets at longer ranges. So I don’t get why the SD-10 would be forced not to Loft when the pilot manually decide when to loft or not with or without range data?

 

The point is that if you manually loft a HOJ missile, it should instantly snap to straight PN and not keep lofting. The whole loft maneuver, as well as the Variable PN is predicated on knowing the range to the target. The SD-10, when manually lofted, does not go to pure PN, however. It uses normal Variable PN, pulling low Gs far away from the target. This creates a unrealistic psuedo-loft maneuver, and its unrealistic because theres no way for the SD-10 to get range info to VPN. And to the 2nd part, both missiles auto determine the best loft angle; however, manually pitching up does help both maintain energy and achieve a higher loft peak altitude

Edited August 5, 2021 by dundun92