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About two Russians and one Chinese manufactures, are they really all marked the same on RWR?

image.png

 

I doubt that`s how its in reality. Americans and their allies surely would want to distinguish Migs from Sukhois.  Its true they really look much alike, but very different regarding capabilities - which surely someone who wants to fight with them, would also want to know exactly which one is it. 

So this really is very suspicious.

About J-11A, ok, its almost a complete copy of Su-27, but still would be good to distinguish them  - as Chinese as nothing else.

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The RWR is passive and only detects what radar system is being used so that is all it can report to the pilot.

The radar can detect qualities about its target which sometimes allows it to id targets, though I don't think that's implemented in the F-16.

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11 minutes ago, skywalker22 said:

All these aircrafts have the same radar?

If so, ok then.

No they don’t. They have different radars that SHOULD differentiate on the RWR

 

MiG29/SU27/SU33 Slotback

SU30 N011M

J11 N001VE

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Unfortunately for the Nato they share the same radar.

But fortunately for the russians as they save development and maintanance costs etc by using the same radar in multiple aircraft I guess.

 

EDIT: Not sure about the J11 but while I was typing the answer already has been posted.

And the J11 is not a copy but built under licence by the chinese.

 

Currently in DCS the F18 can id an enemy aicraft with its radar. But it needs to see the front profile of the bandit looking into the air intake on the fan blades. No idea if the real F16 can do that too and if it is implemented.

 


Edited by darkman222
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I think perhaps in real life differentiation is not a yes/no. The ability tell related but slightly different radars apart might depend on range or particular operating modes of the radar. E.g. everything looks like a 29 at 100nm but at 10nm you can tell a 29 from a 27 or the RWR couldn't tell until the radar did a mode that it knows only a 29 or 27 can do and the other one can't. This is in the EW area that you might get lucky and get second hand qualitative info but no hard info will be available to the public.

 

Yes, F-16 has NCTR just like F/A-18 and F-15 and I think F-14 as well. It uses jet engine modulation (JEM) signatures. This is not only aspect dependent but range dependent. You might have to close to 10-15nm to get a "print" from NCTR.

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Not really sure if if the radars of the Mig29 and the Su 27 could be slightly different. And if one of them maybe has a different sub mode that might create something for the RWR to pick up. I dont think so. Does not make sense economics wise to have slight differences.

I believe they are the exact same model. So how would a radar warning receiver be able to differentiate between them then? But I dont know. So: questionmark. But this is not an F16 specific question anyway...


Edited by darkman222
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Afaik we have an older Su-27 in the game which had a similar radar to the MiG-29 and that is why its a 29 on the rwr. If we had a newer Su-27 i think it would display as a 27, and the newer Su-27 would be able to take adders.

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On 7/22/2021 at 4:07 PM, darkman222 said:

Does not make sense economics wise to have slight differences.

Why?  There are tons and tons of examples of hardware and software with version upgrades and variants.

"Subsonic is below Mach 1, supersonic is up to Mach 5. Above Mach 5 is hypersonic. And reentry from space, well, that's like Mach a lot."

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Posted (edited)

Where did you guys get the info that Mig-29 (with 10s of variations) and Su-27 (also with 10s of variations) with many other versions (Su-30, 33, 34, 35, 37) have the same radar?

Here are some of mine researches:

1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zhuk_(radar)

2. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mech_radar

3. http://toad-design.com/migalley/index.php/jet-aircraft/mig29/mig29-n019-radar/

 

I seriously doubt any mig has same dopper radar as sukhoi or vice versa. Therefore I would dare to say each of them have different, at least  different among mig and sukhoi.

--

Will try to do a sheet with all aircrafts and their belonging radar, at what I will be able to find.


Edited by skywalker22
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1 hour ago, skywalker22 said:

Where did you guys get the info that Mig-29 (with 10s of variations) and Su-27 (also with 10s of variations) with many other versions (Su-30, 33, 34, 35, 37) have the same radar?

Here are some of mine researches:

1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zhuk_(radar)

2. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mech_radar

3. http://toad-design.com/migalley/index.php/jet-aircraft/mig29/mig29-n019-radar/

 

I seriously doubt any mig has same dopper radar as sukhoi or vice versa. Therefore I would dare to say each of them have different, at least  different among mig and sukhoi.

--

Will try to do a sheet with all aircrafts and their belonging radar, at what I will be able to find.

 

Without getting into a classified realm, RWRs are programmed based on collection of radar parameters from different sources. 
 

saying a radar has been upgraded for better range, still means the same RF/PRI parameters, it just has more power. 
 

a better detection capability will mean modulation on the pulse. However, older RWR systems may not have the capability to detect this modulation and therefore look at external parameters only. Hence why variations of a radar on jets will show as the same symbol. 

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