inner wing pylon payloads?

[twistking]

Hello,
just asking out of interest, since the relevant information is not in the manual.

 

What weapons can "our" Viper carry on the inner wing pylons. On 99% of screenshots i see the fuel tanks. I also spotted single GBUs, so i guess dumb bombs should also work. Can you put triple racks on the inner wing pylons? Can you carry mk82 triples and their respective gbu counterparts in triples?

I remember from "that other" discussion that you can carry Harms but not fire them. Anything else? Rocket pods i assume... ? Rocket pod on multi-racks maybe?

Thanks.

[HalasKor]

I believe you can carry everything except the Mavericks and Harms (you can’t shoot the harms). I don’t have personal experience with the JDAM’s. I am not sure if JDAM’s or JSOW’s can be used on the inner pylons. The rockets are singles on the inner pylons, Mk-82’s can be triple mounted,  CBU-87/97 can be double mounted.

[twistking]

so the viper could theoretically carry 12 x mk82s or 12 x gbu-12s? that's not bad actually...

[HalasKor]

28 minutes ago, twistking said:

so the viper could theoretically carry 12 x mk82s or 12 x gbu-12s? that's not bad actually...

Not quite, the load for GBU’s are different. I think you can do dual mounts of the GBU-12 on the inward stations, I think you are stuck with one GBU-12 on the outward stations. GBU-16’s can be loaded single only. Though I do believe you can have 12 Mk-82’s. You should also be able to carry eight CBU-82/97 between the inward and outward stations. I’m not 100% on the loading of GBU-12’s but that’s how it worked if my memory serves.

[Furiz]

1 hour ago, twistking said:

so the viper could theoretically carry 12 x mk82s or 12 x gbu-12s? that's not bad actually...

 

Viper can carry as much as 6 GBU-12 at once.

Inner pylons are usually used for fuel tanks in real world, since missions in real life usually don't take 30 mins like they tend to do it in DCS, they take hours and AAR etc, and Viper is known to be a thirsty little devil. Then you need fuel if you get in trouble etc. You can't really take off with a fighter jet carrying just enough fuel to get back to base, you need to have extra. That's why they take 2 Fuel Tanks on the inner pylons.

[Frederf]

TER MK-82s on 4/6. TER GBU-12s on 4/6 no. I believe the legal limit is slant-two config on 3/4/6/7 with GBU-12. That makes the total limit for MK-82 12 and GBU-12 8. For 4/6 a few things you can TER all three MK-82, I think Rockeye, and Durandal for the nations that had it. Medium stuff is limited to slant two GBU-12, CBUs. Heavy stuff is single e.g. MK-84. I'm not sure about rockets. Only thing I see modern is slant two on 3/7 LAU-131. LAU-3 in total are old news. It might be allowed to put slant two on 4/6 but I don't think you'll ever see it  done outside of a test squadron if they bothered to test it at all.

 

You can go crazy putting AG weapons on 3467 in multiples but the airplane performs very poorly. Other nations with CFT and a centerline do just fine with modest four station AG loads.

[twistking]

thanks for the answers!

[Xavven]

2 hours ago, Frederf said:

You can go crazy putting AG weapons on 3467 in multiples but the airplane performs very poorly. Other nations with CFT and a centerline do just fine with modest four station AG loads.

 

Would I be correct in assuming this is why the US almost always has wing tanks on 4/6? If eight GBU-12 makes the plane perform poorly, and four GBU-12 is a reasonable loadout, then why do one each GBU-12 on 3/4/6/7 and a centerline tank when I could do two each GBU-12 on 3/7 and have fuel on 4/6, right?

[Frederf]

Yes, wing tanks 4/6 is with very rare exception is every USAF combat configuration. USAF will configure a load of 4 LGB as slant two 37 and external 370s every time. In terms of pure drag performance one bomb 3467 is superior to slant two. Of course there are other reasons to configure as USAF does: more fuel, centerline available for ALQ, etc.

[Bunny Clark]

The F-16 can only carry weapons that need a video or data connection on the outboard pylon on each wing. This means JDAM, JSOW, WCMD, HARM, and Maverick can only be carried on two pylons: one on each wing.

 

From there things get a bit odd. I'm not sure how closely DCS matches what the USAF has certified the aircraft for, and can only really speak to DCS.

 

Mk.82s can be carried in triples on a TER-9 on all 4 stations. CBUs can be carried in pairs on a TER-9 on all 4 stations as well. GBU-12s can be slant-loaded in pairs on a TER-9 on the outboard stations, which I believe is because of fin deployment clearance issues between a GBU-12 and a fuel tank. The inboard wing station can only carry GBU-12s as singles. I suspect that a 4x3 load of GBU-12s would be physically possible if no wing tanks were carried, but the USAF hasn't bothered to certify that configuration for flight because F-16s simply always carry wing tanks in combat configurations. 

[twistking]

does the usaf even operate the centreline fuel tank, or is it exclusively used on export aircrafts.

[Northstar98]

14 minutes ago, twistking said:

does the usaf even operate the centreline fuel tank, or is it exclusively used on export aircrafts.

 

I'm pretty sure they do, it's just that they elect to stick ECM systems on that pylon.

 

 

This was sourced from here and the photo is captioned:

 

Quote

TYNDALL AIR FORCE BASE, Fla. -- Lt. Col. Mike Cosby, 177th Fighter Wing commander, flies an F-16C block 25 aircraft from here to Atlantic City International Airport, N.J. The wing participated in Combat Archer training at Tyndall. (U.S. Air Force photo by Master Sgt. Don Taggart)

 

So doesn't look to be a test aircraft, it's something they operate but only seldomly AFAIK.

 

Here's another one:

 

 

And another one:

 

 

Edited July 22, 2021 by Northstar98

[QuiGon]

Only fuel tanks, dumb weapons (bombs and rockets) and single LGBs on the innermost pylon. Missiles and other smart munitions go to the 2nd inner pylon only.

12x Mk-82 is possible though, but only 6x LGBs at most.

 

 

 

Edited July 22, 2021 by QuiGon

[Mr_sukebe]

Does anyone have a good summary of realistic weapon loads for the Viper?  I’d love to set those up as options in the ME, but really don’t know what they are

[Exorcet]

40 minutes ago, Mr_sukebe said:

Does anyone have a good summary of realistic weapon loads for the Viper?  I’d love to set those up as options in the ME, but really don’t know what they are

What's realistic depends on the situation. While the F-16 might often carry 2 fuel tanks that doesn't mean it's never loaded up with as many bombs as it can carry.

 

 

As far as DCS goes, with the F-16 being so fuel efficient, ECM and SAM modeling as it is, and maps being small compared to some real life operations, I don't see much reason to carry two fuel tanks. I think the biggest factor in how realistic this is is ECM. ECM is more desirable against strong opposition in real life than in DCS, but wars are also sometimes one sided.

[QuiGon]

I always wonder why/if the Israelis need to load up the two fuel tanks all the time, as they often strike targets not far away.

[Mr_sukebe]

24 minutes ago, QuiGon said:

I always wonder why/if the Israelis need to load up the two fuel tanks all the time, as they often strike targets not far away.

syria, egypt are surprisingly large countries 

[Falconeer]

There is also a weight limit to what a TER rack is allowed to carry.

 

3x MK82 or 3x CBU 97 is a big difference in weight, therefore only 2x CBU's are loaded. MK20 is an exception, because of it's lighter weight

Edited July 22, 2021 by Falconeer

[Xavven]

2 hours ago, Mr_sukebe said:

Does anyone have a good summary of realistic weapon loads for the Viper?  I’d love to set those up as options in the ME, but really don’t know what they are

 

Here's a thread on it: https://forums.eagle.ru/topic/273522-help-with-realistic-cas-loadouts/?tab=comments#comment-4686507

 

The following is from information gathered on these forums. I am not a primary source of information.

 

The basic gist is:

• No centerline tank, often ECM
• 4/6 wing tanks
• 3/7 see below
• 2/8 sometimes removed if the air threat is low, otherwise 2x AIM-120, or 1x AIM-120 and 1x AIM-9
• 1/9 2x AIM-120. There are other threads (many of them) on whether sidewinders are sometimes mounted here. The short version is no.

3/9 AA configs:

• Usually 1x AIM-120 and 1x AIM-9, or 2x AIM-9.  Having a total of 6x AIM-120 is rare for the USAF but is sometimes done by other countries.

 

3/9 AG configs commonly seen:

Mix and match one selection for station 3 and then another for 9. It can be symmetric or asymmetric:

• LAU-117 with 1x Maverick
• BRU-57 with 2x GBU-38
• TER-9A with 2x GBU-12 or newer LJDAMs which we don't have in DCS yet
• Rocket pod - nowadays it's LAU-131 IIRC but LAU-3 is all we have in the DCS Viper
• Occasionally a 2000 lb bomb like the GBU-31
• 1x CBU
• 1x HARM

4x Maverick was used in one conflict but is uncommon now. Dumb bombs seem rare now as well. There are also pamphlet dispensers but not implemented in DCS.

 

Edited July 22, 2021 by Xavven

[SkHiTech]

due to the choiche of a particular year (year span) of our block F16, I think the most useful summary of weapon loads would be the one most commonly used during to that year span.

I mean, as you said Xavven, uncommon weapon choiche "now" is anacronystic with our DCS Viper

In any case thanks for your intel,  

[Mr_sukebe]

Xavven>
My thanks.

I’ll go create those as std load outs in the ME

[QuiGon]

2 hours ago, Mr_sukebe said:

syria, egypt are surprisingly large countries 

 

Indeed, but AFAIK most of Israels air strikes are around the Golan Heights or around Damascus and thus not far away from the border.

 

 

1 hour ago, Falconeer said:

There is also a weight limit to what a TER rack is allowed to carry.

 

3x MK82 or 3x CBU 97 is a big difference in weight, therefore only 2x CBU's are loaded. MK20 is an exception, because of it's lighter weight

 

 

But we can load 3x CBU's on the TER racks...

Edited July 22, 2021 by QuiGon

[Frederf]

3x Rockeye is allowed on TER I think, 3x other CBU is not.

 

Centerline fuel is popular for training dogfight since you can fly as if 370s are jettisoned without destroying any tanks.

[ViFF]

4 hours ago, QuiGon said:

I always wonder why/if the Israelis need to load up the two fuel tanks all the time, as they often strike targets not far away.

 

Its for the purpose of loitering.  When loitering is not expected you can use them for JDAM.  Unlike the USAF ANG, the IAF do not remove the umbilicals from Stations 4 and 6.

 

Here is a picture from the recent conflict in May 2021 of an Israeli Block 40 of the 101st Squadron with GBU-31 JDAMS on stations 4 and 6:

 

[QuiGon]

24 minutes ago, Frederf said:

3x Rockeye is allowed on TER I think, 3x other CBU is not.

 

Centerline fuel is popular for training dogfight since you can fly as if 370s are jettisoned without destroying any tanks.

Take a look at the loadout screenshots I posted above. 3x CBU is allowed on the inner pylons.

 

  

8 minutes ago, ViFF said:

 

Its for the purpose of loitering.  When loitering is not expected you can use them for JDAM.  Unlike the USAF ANG, the IAF do not remove the umbilicals from Stations 4 and 6.

 

Here is a picture from the recent conflict in May 2021 of an Israeli Block 40 of the 101st Squadron with GBU-31 JDAMS on stations 4 and 6:

 

 

Oh, that's good to know! Thanks!

Edited July 22, 2021 by QuiGon