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Cold War 1947 - 1991 *** 2nd Limited Edition ***


Alpenwolf
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Observations from today -

 

Without external views it is very hard to get the Su-33 lined up on the starting chocks properly. There is a very high chance the JBD will strike your tail and lift you off the deck, or the chocks will launch you into the air, or it'll just refuse to work. I ended up giving up on flying it when after being stuffed around for several minutes, I had the chocks lift me up and dump me so my gear broke. I'm not sure if you fly the FC3 stuff or do anything naval, but I cannot state this enough: Kuznetsov is nowhere near Supercarrier in terms of actual usability. We have no deck crew, no callouts of how close we are to the chocks, the ATC is spotty at best, and unlike the original Stennis, there's no margin for error where it gently moves you into the correct launch position if you're "close enough".

 

Su-33 players need to understand that you can't just send it from the shortest two launch positions, especially with a heavy load. I watched two or three of our Su-33s simply bellyflop into the water, one after the other, and then another two somehow exploded on the bow which damaged the ship. Great start.

 

Red players in general need to be aware that not only can the later Sparrows home on jam, at which point it will follow you no matter what you do, but they're also blinding each other by jamming. I know most people seem to roll around with the radar off doing barrel rolls in IRST close combat vertical scan, but for those of us who do actually want to use the radar, it's a nightmare. It makes IFF difficult until we're close, other contacts can hide in your jamming strobes, and the radar gets spat back to search rather than TWS if there is any source of jamming within its scan volume. Without TWS it's much harder to try keep track of a target without just STTing and alerting them.

 

As for comms, as I tried to tell you - FC3 modules defaulting to 251 means people just don't change frequency. Nobody reads briefings in PvP servers, or even if they do, they assume their SRS is auto-set to the right freq. If that's outside your control that's fine, but you need to have realistic expectations of your playerbase and you need to understand that this isn't a new problem. This is a public server and at any given time, maybe half the players on it bother reading the briefing or are regulars who understand how things work. I regularly find half the team on any given mission on 251 while I'm resetting my own freq to 124. You have to design for the playerbase you have, you can't realistically expect random players on a public server to treat it like they're flying a closed squadron co-op mission on a passworded server before hanging out on TS/wherever afterwards.

 

The mission has potential, but between the frustration caused by Kuznetsov's sadly unfinished state and people just not knowing what they were doing, it ended up being a bit too much for my nerves today. It might be worth just using the ME to set the regular channel presets for the 19 and 21 to 251 for missions where FC3 aircraft make up the bulk of redfor. I'm not sure how to account for Kuznetsov without adding external views though.

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bug report (only potential bug):

For the friday mission I was able to attend and join almost directly at mission start.

  • AAV7s first wave 

After starting up a Hind, making a wide pass for the Shturms to heat up I tried to engage the AAVs in the Channel
The first wave of 15 AAV-7s was already very close to the northern coast of Tinian.
They made landfall 18 minutes after mission start, which makes the engagement window extremely short, since a Hind will have trouble spot them while they are in the forest.
By making landfall I mean they just blinked out, probably until their first roadpattern waypoint was triggered.
The default loadout for the Hind carries 4 Shturms, and currently you still cannot default from presets, otherwise the module itself might have weapons bugs. With 2 Hinds avaiable, this short window makes it basically impossible to stop the first wave from reaching engagement positions.
Case in point: when a KA-50 arrived at intercept position at the NW beach of Tinian, I had to inform him that they are already in the palmtrees. He could not spot them despite the AAVs in theory rolling right next to him.

On Tacview he hovers directly next to them, while I am seen making 3 passes and getting shot at while actually there were no vehicles there to see.

 

  • Tinian parking positions for spawnslots

Exactly 40 minutes after mission start that first wave arrives at their engagement positions and Tinian AF, and start blowing up stuff.
From that point on the SW part will also engage the spawnpoint of the roleslots. Not permanently but randomly at different stages during warmup or takeoff. I personally was able to take off and get hit before leaving ground effect, or got hit while doing the startup, or had impacts or tracers fly by (all from around 220° off the 6 of the parking position) immediately after loading in, or got splashed by them when leaving the AF (the latter is absolutely correct for the positioning, that is not a bug).

 

  • repair timer wait counter for Hind, textline feedback, counter

The Hind seems to have no repair "wait time counter" or any related textline on Tinian, I managed to somehow land (actually, not totally fataly crash) a damaged one in autorotation, and tried to repair. I never got at this or any other instance any feedback from the ground-crew whether this would actually happen. Thus I had to change role (thus blowing it up). The rearm gets the usual "copy" as a textline after the angry line in Han? Mandarin?, so the player know the process is underway.


Conclusion:
I do not know if this is intended, but the channel crossing is very fast (for every wave), and they are very much not "sitting ducks for 40 minutes". Currently 40 minutes after mission start rotories can effectively no longer spawn at Tinian (as in will get hit directly at the parking position) and with its AA screen gone on top.
Furthermore the landfall currently (map related) seems to have the AAVs melt into the ground for a while, while they are "on the beach going for the road", again reducing the already short engagement window directly at mission start that effectively takes out Tinian (in the case of the Friday mission, an Su-25T thankfully showed up and cleared enough of them to at least make spawning possible again - but that was far far later in the mssion).

 

Trackfile and Tacview to illustrate what is mentioned above:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1VRHTUg9e_G4KEjYyD7Z-DVbe_snfy500/view?usp=sharing

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1lq957wqM9tgutJs2KP1tMUfaV1a3CePM/view?usp=sharing

 
Unrelated notions (not part of the bug report):
A two player Hind of course would be far more effective, as the Petrovic-AI still has locking issues when the craft are in the water. A lock is achieved at extremely short distances or not at all, even when guiding the Petrovic AI directly on the target pixelprecise. Reliable locks from a bit more standoff distance are achieved if the approach is higher - but then the Hind will also be toast, immediately, since the Channels is a hot zone as intended for the duration of the mission (I took a Hind very late, and immediately a Harrier showed up and took care of me, twice, direcly over and next to the airfield).
With the current realities I do not know if it is intended to have effectively Tinian out of the mission equation 45 minutes after the map has rotated.
Even two Hinds with 4 competent players in 2-player crews (that means I was completely double useless) would not be able to stop the first wave or make a dent keeping the spawnslots/parking positions unegaged.
Also as the permissable weapon loadouts are now more flexible, I think the briefing (in this thread and in the mission file) needs more clear statements what players are allowed to do.
For exmaple Hinds cannot do manual loadouts for the time being, removing weight works, adding anything might trigger global module problems (early access).
In the Mig-21 I was unsure whether I was allowed to carry 4 R60Ms or stay in the default with R60Ms only on the inner pylons as stated in the briefing.
Other modules seemed to be free in their loadout choice (on SRS magic told us that we had some Tomcats doing what they seem to have learned on DCS:Fortnite aka "Howling Sh...winder"- take off, ripple fire HARMS from a galaxy far far away, land, rinse & repeat.. but that is #justDCSthings).

So something clear, and I mean CLEAR, beyond any ambiguity what modules are allowed to do with their loadouts would help. (fe for the Hind: "DO NOT CHANGE YOUR DEFAULT LOADOUT!"

P.S. I had great fun, and the mission is very intense, even for someone who does not achieve anything but blowing up .
Also ty to the human GCI (in this case Legolas), for those on SRS and working together, that alone made the mission perfect. (well.. me blowing up in everything witout ever doing anything also eluciated some earnest laughter - so I helped!! wohooo 🙂 ).
 


Edited by rogorogo
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 A few things I noticed from a Tomcat perspective during the first 2 hours:

-Tanker did not work. It was there, tacan working but you couldnt contact it from the f10 menu

-Tacan and ICLS didnt work for TR from the very beginning (guess thats the old carrier randomly drops tac/icls bug). 

- the TR is too close to other carriers for a comfortable case I approach. You have to fly right over the Tarawa which brings a lot of midair potential

I've also had the impression that the SEAD mission didnt really move forward. I guess thats due to a lack of coordination between CAP and strikers and the fact that our GCI went midnight after 40min or so (not blaming any1, thats just the nature of casual PvP servers) 

Overall it was great fun and I hope to see more of this in the future! 

A few suggestions from my side:

-move the escort ships 20 miles west, this makes for a more realistic CVBG formation and provides a little more sam cover for the AWACS and Tomcats/Hornets during RTB

-Spread the carriers further apart

-Add a tanker overhead the carriers

-A few statics on the carrier deck would be nice

Again, thanks for hosting this! 

 

i5-8600k @4.9Ghz, 2080ti , 32GB@2666Mhz, 512GB SSD

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4 hours ago, rossmum said:

Observations from today -

 

Without external views it is very hard to get the Su-33 lined up on the starting chocks properly. There is a very high chance the JBD will strike your tail and lift you off the deck, or the chocks will launch you into the air, or it'll just refuse to work. I ended up giving up on flying it when after being stuffed around for several minutes, I had the chocks lift me up and dump me so my gear broke. I'm not sure if you fly the FC3 stuff or do anything naval, but I cannot state this enough: Kuznetsov is nowhere near Supercarrier in terms of actual usability. We have no deck crew, no callouts of how close we are to the chocks, the ATC is spotty at best, and unlike the original Stennis, there's no margin for error where it gently moves you into the correct launch position if you're "close enough".

 

Su-33 players need to understand that you can't just send it from the shortest two launch positions, especially with a heavy load. I watched two or three of our Su-33s simply bellyflop into the water, one after the other, and then another two somehow exploded on the bow which damaged the ship. Great start.

 

Red players in general need to be aware that not only can the later Sparrows home on jam, at which point it will follow you no matter what you do, but they're also blinding each other by jamming. I know most people seem to roll around with the radar off doing barrel rolls in IRST close combat vertical scan, but for those of us who do actually want to use the radar, it's a nightmare. It makes IFF difficult until we're close, other contacts can hide in your jamming strobes, and the radar gets spat back to search rather than TWS if there is any source of jamming within its scan volume. Without TWS it's much harder to try keep track of a target without just STTing and alerting them.

 

As for comms, as I tried to tell you - FC3 modules defaulting to 251 means people just don't change frequency. Nobody reads briefings in PvP servers, or even if they do, they assume their SRS is auto-set to the right freq. If that's outside your control that's fine, but you need to have realistic expectations of your playerbase and you need to understand that this isn't a new problem. This is a public server and at any given time, maybe half the players on it bother reading the briefing or are regulars who understand how things work. I regularly find half the team on any given mission on 251 while I'm resetting my own freq to 124. You have to design for the playerbase you have, you can't realistically expect random players on a public server to treat it like they're flying a closed squadron co-op mission on a passworded server before hanging out on TS/wherever afterwards.

 

The mission has potential, but between the frustration caused by Kuznetsov's sadly unfinished state and people just not knowing what they were doing, it ended up being a bit too much for my nerves today. It might be worth just using the ME to set the regular channel presets for the 19 and 21 to 251 for missions where FC3 aircraft make up the bulk of redfor. I'm not sure how to account for Kuznetsov without adding external views though.

 

I flew the Su-27 for years. Almost everyday, especially before the MiG-21 was released and even after that for a while, and I still do occasionally. I did some Su-33 sorties on the 104th server and never needed to use any external views. Also, I'm aware of all the difficulties caused by jamming pods, thus difficulties with IFF, the TWS issue you talked about, etc. I'm aware of all the things you mentioned. Now, I don't want to sound like I'm bragging or anything, but these issues are player-related. Which is why I never expected things to run smoothly, but somehow, more or less, they did in round 1.

In yesterday's session we mostly had different players than in round 1, and with that the discrepancy in the outcome of things was conspicuous enough. Surprisingly, round 1 was better, but then again not surprisingly enough because we had different players for the most part.

 

Forcing frequencies works sometimes, not always. Little bit beyond me.

 

"As for comms", you said. Well, this is the part that got me confused with all of you regulars/veterans/aces of the server.

You don't need to tell me about casuals who never care to read the briefing. You think, I don't know that? But then how is suggesting doing something about clarifying, what 124 MHz stands for is justified? Is it so confusing, really?! You presume to know that casuals would be confused about it and thus end up on 251 MHz because of that? Not to fail to mention that they don't care to read the briefing in the first place. Come on, mate. See how pointless that superfluous discussion was? Blaming it all on the briefing that only a few read?! The briefing ? Where did that come from?! And why would you care that much about being on comms with casuals, as you put it? You've got the regulars on 124 MHz anyway (at least that's what you'd expect from 'em). Why not be on 124 MHz as it always is the case and encourage the casuals to switch over, especially when a GCI operator was available at some point? If the community doesn't lead the way, but rather follows the casual then how is that helping anyone?

 

What do I always say, mate? The server can become anything. It's in the hands of the players! I can do whatever I want with the missions, triggers, briefings, etc., it's the players who have more influence than the mission designer. If they all choose to go air-to-air in all missions all day long then it becomes exactly that. Restrictions may slow it down a bit until you reach the point, where you can't restrict any more, otherwise it becomes unplayable. And that's where I start questioning myself, whether it's worth it or not any more. If I can't get the most out of the missions and all the effort I pour into the server is not flourishing the way I want it to, why continue?

 

... miss the good old days when DCS was more of a simulator that a game, regardless of the reasons, let's not get into that. It was so self-evident. Everyone knew how vital comms are and nowadays you need to explain it to people. And that's just one issue and what an issue. The community is changing radically, mate, and I know many players of a "high status" who left DCS for exactly that reason. I don't know what else to tell you.

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You came on the server and pushed for everyone to move to 124. Those of us who play regularly already were, but since more than half our team (including most of our Flankers) weren't, we took to using 251 out of necessity. We lost our GCI after about 30 seconds because he felt like he was being personally blasted for trying to use the frequency that he could see most of the team was on (whether he was or not is neither here nor there). There is no point 4 of us being on one channel while the other 10 or whatever people are on 251 and everyone's wondering why they can't talk to each other, comms on the wrong channel is better than no comms at all.


Edited by rossmum
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1 hour ago, rogorogo said:

bug report (only potential bug):

For the friday mission I was able to attend and join almost directly at mission start.

  • AAV7s first wave 

After starting up a Hind, making a wide pass for the Shturms to heat up I tried to engage the AAVs in the Channel
The first wave of 15 AAV-7s was already very close to the northern coast of Tinian.
They made landfall 18 minutes after mission start, which makes the engagement window extremely short, since a Hind will have trouble spot them while they are in the forest.
By making landfall I mean they just blinked out, probably until their first roadpattern waypoint was triggered.
The default loadout for the Hind carries 4 Shturms, and currently you still cannot default from presets, otherwise the module itself might have weapons bugs. With 2 Hinds avaiable, this short window makes it basically impossible to stop the first wave from reaching engagement positions.
Case in point: when a KA-50 arrived at intercept position at the NW beach of Tinian, I had to inform him that they are already in the palmtrees. He could not spot them despite the AAVs in theory rolling right next to him.

On Tacview he hovers directly next to them, while I am seen making 3 passes and getting shot at while actually there were no vehicles there to see.

 

  • Tinian parking positions for spawnslots

Exactly 40 minutes after mission start that first wave arrives at their engagement positions and Tinian AF, and start blowing up stuff.
From that point on the SW part will also engage the spawnpoint of the roleslots. Not permanently but randomly at different stages during warmup or takeoff. I personally was able to take off and get hit before leaving ground effect, or got hit while doing the startup, or had impacts or tracers fly by (all from around 220° off the 6 of the parking position) immediately after loading in, or got splashed by them when leaving the AF (the latter is absolutely correct for the positioning, that is not a bug).

 

  • repair timer wait counter for Hind, textline feedback, counter

The Hind seems to have no repair "wait time counter" or any related textline on Tinian, I managed to somehow land (actually, not totally fataly crash) a damaged one in autorotation, and tried to repair. I never got at this or any other instance any feedback from the ground-crew whether this would actually happen. Thus I had to change role (thus blowing it up). The rearm gets the usual "copy" as a textline after the angry line in Han? Mandarin?, so the player know the process is underway.


Conclusion:
I do not know if this is intended, but the channel crossing is very fast (for every wave), and they are very much not "sitting ducks for 40 minutes". Currently 40 minutes after mission start rotories can effectively no longer spawn at Tinian (as in will get hit directly at the parking position) and with its AA screen gone on top.
Furthermore the landfall currently (map related) seems to have the AAVs melt into the ground for a while, while they are "on the beach going for the road", again reducing the already short engagement window directly at mission start that effectively takes out Tinian (in the case of the Friday mission, an Su-25T thankfully showed up and cleared enough of them to at least make spawning possible again - but that was far far later in the mssion).

 

Trackfile and Tacview to illustrate what is mentioned above:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1VRHTUg9e_G4KEjYyD7Z-DVbe_snfy500/view?usp=sharing

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1lq957wqM9tgutJs2KP1tMUfaV1a3CePM/view?usp=sharing

 
Unrelated notions (not part of the bug report):
A two player Hind of course would be far more effective, as the Petrovic-AI still has locking issues when the craft are in the water. A lock is achieved at extremely short distances or not at all, even when guiding the Petrovic AI directly on the target pixelprecise. Reliable locks from a bit more standoff distance are achieved if the approach is higher - but then the Hind will also be toast, immediately, since the Channels is a hot zone as intended for the duration of the mission (I took a Hind very late, and immediately a Harrier showed up and took care of me, twice, direcly over and next to the airfield).
With the current realities I do not know if it is intended to have effectively Tinian out of the mission equation 45 minutes after the map has rotated.
Even two Hinds with 4 competent players in 2-player crews (that means I was completely double useless) would not be able to stop the first wave or make a dent keeping the spawnslots/parking positions unegaged.
Also as the permissable weapon loadouts are now more flexible, I think the briefing (in this thread and in the mission file) needs more clear statements what players are allowed to do.
For exmaple Hinds cannot do manual loadouts for the time being, removing weight works, adding anything might trigger global module problems (early access).
In the Mig-21 I was unsure whether I was allowed to carry 4 R60Ms or stay in the default with R60Ms only on the inner pylons as stated in the briefing.
Other modules seemed to be free in their loadout choice (on SRS magic told us that we had some Tomcats doing what they seem to have learned on DCS:Fortnite aka "Howling Sh...winder"- take off, ripple fire HARMS from a galaxy far far away, land, rinse & repeat.. but that is #justDCSthings).

So something clear, and I mean CLEAR, beyond any ambiguity what modules are allowed to do with their loadouts would help. (fe for the Hind: "DO NOT CHANGE YOUR DEFAULT LOADOUT!"

P.S. I had great fun, and the mission is very intense, even for someone who does not achieve anything but blowing up .
Also ty to the human GCI (in this case Legolas), for those on SRS and working together, that alone made the mission perfect. (well.. me blowing up in everything witout ever doing anything also eluciated some earnest laughter - so I helped!! wohooo 🙂 ).
 

 

 

Thanks for taking the time to write all the above. Very appreciated.

 

The AVV-7's can barely damage your flying tank, the Mi-24P, especially while airborne. That's why I chose that type of unit - unlike the Bradley - to make easier for the Hind while performing attack tuns with rockets. Turns out that attacking with rockets is not everyone's choice.

 

The ground units disappearing into the rocks at the beach, before they emerge again on the road lasts for 10-20 seconds, and I'm aware of that. The map is still WIP, I guess, so things like that ought to happen. However, I wouldn't consider it to be a big issue. It's just... seconds.

 

Now, here comes the part we talked about in round 1; Multi crew!

This was an issue in round 1 and also in yesterday's session, round 2.

1 x Mi-24P with 2 human pilots onboard would do more damage than you think. Surely, 2 x Mi-24P's with 4 players would be even more effective. That's a player- or players-related issue. The same applies to the Tomcats.

 

The pre-loadout is there to save you some time. That's all. Nowhere in the briefing does it say you should or shouldn't use any weapons, so no need to assume anything. Whatever is there in the warehouses is allowed, otherwise it's a bug or something I forgot to remove, so it's not your fault. It doesn't have to say in the briefing that all the available weapons are allowed. They are available, so...

 

As with every mission I design, I'm always reluctant before I make any changes considering the removal or reduction of units, assets, aircraft, weapons, etc. Why? Because so far, most issues were players-related.

Take Blue for example: If an F/A-18C player fires a HARM missile or 2 max towards Tinian Island with all the AA's online, then it's on the player for not being effective with his SEAD objective, rather than saying the mission is way too difficult. And I saw that in round 1 through the Blue JTAC and in round 2 through the tacview file. If 4 Hornets with a total of 16 HARM's can't deal with 2 x SA-15's, 2 x KUB and 1 x HQ-7 sites, then it's rather hard to say the mission is way too difficult. And it's just the SA-15's that are actually shooting down your missiles, so it really shouldn't be so tough to accomplish. But here's the thing: You hardly get 2 Hornets flying together, let alone 4.

The same applies to most aircraft. For instance, you barely see all Tomcats flying together providing CAP or Fighter Sweep. I mean, 4 Tomcats is all it takes to push the entire Red air force away from the Hornets, until SEAD is completed in 1 or maybe 2 runs max.

 

Does that mean, the mission shouldn't be open for anyone who can casually join? Maybe. That may be it. A closed event might be the answer for round 3.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, sLYFa said:

 A few things I noticed from a Tomcat perspective during the first 2 hours:

-Tanker did not work. It was there, tacan working but you couldnt contact it from the f10 menu

-Tacan and ICLS didnt work for TR from the very beginning (guess thats the old carrier randomly drops tac/icls bug). 

- the TR is too close to other carriers for a comfortable case I approach. You have to fly right over the Tarawa which brings a lot of midair potential

I've also had the impression that the SEAD mission didnt really move forward. I guess thats due to a lack of coordination between CAP and strikers and the fact that our GCI went midnight after 40min or so (not blaming any1, thats just the nature of casual PvP servers) 

Overall it was great fun and I hope to see more of this in the future! 

A few suggestions from my side:

-move the escort ships 20 miles west, this makes for a more realistic CVBG formation and provides a little more sam cover for the AWACS and Tomcats/Hornets during RTB

-Spread the carriers further apart

-Add a tanker overhead the carriers

-A few statics on the carrier deck would be nice

Again, thanks for hosting this! 

 

 

- The Blue tanker seems to always RTB after finishing the route, rather than repeating the route as it is the case with the Red tanker and the Blue AWACS. I'll see what I can do.

- Yes, it is the TAC/ICLS bug.

- Good point. Will do.

- Good point. Will do.

- Good point. Will do.

- Again, it seems to be a Blue tanker issue. I'll change the tanker unit into another one. Might solve the problem.

- Statics like what? I don't want them to start floating around blocking the deck or something.

 

You're welcome.

 

29 minutes ago, rossmum said:

You came on the server and pushed for everyone to move to 124. Those of us who play regularly already were, but since more than half our team (including most of our Flankers) weren't, we took to using 251 out of necessity. We lost our GCI after about 30 seconds because he felt like he was being personally blasted for trying to use the frequency that he could see most of the team was on (whether he was or not is neither here nor there). There is no point 4 of us being on one channel while the other 10 or whatever people are on 251 and everyone's wondering why they can't talk to each other, comms on the wrong channel is better than no comms at all.

 

 

The GCI operator came back later and everyone was on 124 MHz. But telling him to stay on 251 MHz, because everyone is there, is what made it worse. Worked fine later and all players switched over to 124 MHz. That's the power a GCI operator has. Players will always follow him. And they did.

 

Many thanks to each and every GCI operator out there in all of DCS. I appreciate each and everyone of you!


Edited by Alpenwolf
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vor 3 Stunden schrieb Alpenwolf:

 

Thanks for taking the time to write all the above. Very appreciated.

 

The AVV-7's can barely damage your flying tank, the Mi-24P, especially while airborne. That's why I chose that type of unit - unlike the Bradley - to make easier for the Hind while performing attack tuns with rockets. Turns out that attacking with rockets is not everyone's choice.

 

The ground units disappearing into the rocks at the beach, before they emerge again on the road lasts for 10-20 seconds, and I'm aware of that. The map is still WIP, I guess, so things like that ought to happen. However, I wouldn't consider it to be a big issue. It's just... seconds.

 

Now, here comes the part we talked about in round 1; Multi crew!

This was an issue in round 1 and also in yesterday's session, round 2.

1 x Mi-24P with 2 human pilots onboard would do more damage than you think. Surely, 2 x Mi-24P's with 4 players would be even more effective. That's a player- or players-related issue. The same applies to the Tomcats.

 

The pre-loadout is there to save you some time. That's all. Nowhere in the briefing does it say you should or shouldn't use any weapons, so no need to assume anything. Whatever is there in the warehouses is allowed, otherwise it's a bug or something I forgot to remove, so it's not your fault. It doesn't have to say in the briefing that all the available weapons are allowed. They are available, so...

 

As with every mission I design, I'm always reluctant before I make any changes considering the removal or reduction of units, assets, aircraft, weapons, etc. Why? Because so far, most issues were players-related.

Take Blue for example: If an F/A-18C player fires a HARM missile or 2 max towards Tinian Island with all the AA's online, then it's on the player for not being effective with his SEAD objective, rather than saying the mission is way too difficult. And I saw that in round 1 through the Blue JTAC and in round 2 through the tacview file. If 4 Hornets with a total of 16 HARM's can't deal with 2 x SA-15's, 2 x KUB and 1 x HQ-7 sites, then it's rather hard to say the mission is way too difficult. And it's just the SA-15's that are actually shooting down your missiles, so it really shouldn't be so tough to accomplish. But here's the thing: You hardly get 2 Hornets flying together, let alone 4.

The same applies to most aircraft. For instance, you barely see all Tomcats flying together providing CAP or Fighter Sweep. I mean, 4 Tomcats is all it takes to push the entire Red air force away from the Hornets, until SEAD is completed in 1 or maybe 2 runs max.

 

Does that mean, the mission shouldn't be open for anyone who can casually join? Maybe. That may be it. A closed event might be the answer for round 3.


Good to know that you are aware because that is the only reason I type anything - to make you aware just in case you might not be.
Not more. 

And EA modules and beta maps inevitably may iron some of that out anyway at some point.

As for the rest, well. We all should know that. And we should also all know that waddling after and for the lowest denominator, trying the please the stampede will only end in a downward spiral, inevitably ending in eroding retention and lastly abandonment due to the lack of actual challenge and cognitive involvement. 
There even is a proverb in German for it - "Teufelskreis" or "Circulus vitiosus" (for those having had Latin in grammar school, still widely used colloquially by contemporary teenagers btw).

I am just happy that there still is a server and a gamemaster that does not bend and twist without any coherent and/or cohesive outline, concept, standard(s) for the sole sake of popularity (or rather: "hardcore populism") and is well aware of the mitigations necessessary to create fidelity within the confines of this product, its playerbase and participation outline.
And is also aware of the product's state, shortcomings and problems - instead of hypefluf"§$...ffffffloating around in fictional clouds - and social media relevance questing.
These days one cannot even use the term "balance" as it has become twisted in and from its meaning, so let's type instead "module viablity and scenario feasibility".

And while I am just a "casual" (again in the descriptive meaning of the word) - I am happy that there is place to enjoy the modules I like for sporadic participation bursts in suitable scenarios.

That was a little /offtopic  but the latest black-hole event of half my Hind-FM bugreport (a quite extensive and relevant half) and watching the finally only self-deprecating opinionating of some towards those having made the mistake to invite opinionation may have made me a little sardonic.. or cringy.. or creaky? what would I know 🤪


Edited by rogorogo
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First things first: Thank you a lot @Alpenwolf for hosting mission focused events like this with realistic settings! Usually such missions are only to be found in closed squadrons and such groups, that you need to be a member of, which usually comes with obligations and requirements, which I either don't like or don't have the time for, so it's great to have something like this in the public world! :thumbup:

 

I couldn't attend the first round, so this was my first experience of this new limited edition and it was great fun! Of my buddies I could only bring one along as the others either didn't had time or are VR players that have performance issues with this map. Anyways, I was playing exclusively as a Tomcat RIO for the 4.5h I was on the server. It was some very relaxed flying as the Tomcat with its Phoenixes is far superior to everything red has to offer (including the Su-33s and their R-27ERs).

Me and my pilot had 3 losses, resulting from a crash in the beginning when we didn't notice the water comming too close for comfort and took a dip in the sea and then got shotdown 2 times when we had no Phoenixes left and got too ballsy with Sparrows/Sidewinders.

On the positive side we achieved 17 A/A kills against jets (haven't killed a single helo), which was a bit like clubbing baby seals as they couldn't do anything against our Phoenixes. We were very restrictive in launching Phoenixes, being aware of the limited total amount of them on the ship and achieved a hit rate of about 90% of our launched Phoenixes. The warehouse on the ship was a bit odd, as it always told my pilot that there were 64 Phoenixes left, while it told me that there are 33 Phoenixes left all the time. At our 4th or 5th rearming the ground crew suddenly wasn't able to put any more Phoenixes on our jet, so we flew with Sparrows and Sidewinders only, as we thought the Phoenixes ran out, but later we saw another Tomcat taking off with more Phoenixes :dunno:. With only Sidewinders and Sparrows we weren't as superior anymore compared to red, but at that time most red players flew Fishbeds, which were still rather easy to deal with.

I would have loved to do some ground work as well, but the situation in the air wasn't really allowing for it, especially if we would have removed ourselve from the CAP work.

 

GCI was there for the first ~45 minutes or so, which was nice, but then comms died down very much and from my observation there was pretty much no cooperation between CAP and strikers (I was monitoring freqs 251 and 256). This made it difficult to figure out how the mission is progressing (or if it is progressing at all), but eventually it seemed like Tinian AB was captured by the AAV-7s with remaining SAM sites still active on the island.

 

It was my first time playing on this map and unfortunately I have not seen much besides the sky, clouds and the water. I have only seen the islands from afar, except one or two times were we were busy dodging enemy bandits after running out of Phoenixes and tried to seek cover behind the Saipan mountain. It was really nice to operate on the seas though, as this is something I haven't really done in DCS so far, at least not to this extent. I had great fun using the raw radar returns in pulse mode to locate and mark ships up to 200nm away, which helped to keep SA on the enemy fleet and RTB to our own fleet, as TACAN wasn't really working for us for some reason.

 

Our AWACS was behaving a bit odd, as all of our three E-2s returned to the ship after being airborne for just ~45 minutes. Is the Hawkeye really that limited on fuel?

 

So afterall it was a great experience, although I would have wished for a bit more variety by doing some ground work. Maybe next time. I would love to multicrew a Hind then, but red seemed very strong already, as blue didn't really make much progress at all. Not sure how it was in round 1?

 

So thanks again for hosting! Looking forward to a new round/event! :smile::pilotfly:


Edited by QuiGon
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Intel i7-4790K @ 4x4GHz + 16 GB DDR3 RAM + Nvidia Geforce RTX 2080 (8 GB VRAM) + M.2 SSD + Windows 10 64Bit

 

DCS Panavia Tornado (IDS) really needs to be a thing!

 

Tornado3 small.jpg

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6 hours ago, Alpenwolf said:

 

 

- Statics like what? I don't want them to start floating around blocking the deck or something.

 

Here is my suggestion for blueship formation and static objects on the carriers. Shouldn't be too fps heave (I used the old Hornet models) but provides for a more "authentic" feel.

Btw I noticed you use a switch waypoint action for the AWACS and Tankers. Could it be that this breaks when they get engaged? You could try the "orbit" enroute task and set the duration to 2h or so and have a new AWACS/tanker spawn after that.

Anyway, hope this helps and looking forward to round 3!

Marianas1991_blue_ships.miz


Edited by sLYFa

i5-8600k @4.9Ghz, 2080ti , 32GB@2666Mhz, 512GB SSD

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Alpen look into the preset loadouts. I saw the Baron crew talking about not being able to take anymore phoenixes and am wondering if the preset loadouts on the tomcat made it so technically there were infinite phoenixes. Perhaps it would be a good idea to wipe preset weapons for the Tomcat specifically.

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18 hours ago, Zachrix said:

Alpen look into the preset loadouts. I saw the Baron crew talking about not being able to take anymore phoenixes and am wondering if the preset loadouts on the tomcat made it so technically there were infinite phoenixes. Perhaps it would be a good idea to wipe preset weapons for the Tomcat specifically.

 

There are preset Phoenix loadouts on the Tomcats? I wasn't aware of that (my pilot was responsible for rearming). That would explain why we weren't able to rearm with new Phoenixes on our 3rd or 4th rearming after returning to the ship (no Phoenixes left in the warehouse), but newly spawned players took off with new Phoenixes (because they spawned with them).


Edited by QuiGon

Intel i7-4790K @ 4x4GHz + 16 GB DDR3 RAM + Nvidia Geforce RTX 2080 (8 GB VRAM) + M.2 SSD + Windows 10 64Bit

 

DCS Panavia Tornado (IDS) really needs to be a thing!

 

Tornado3 small.jpg

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2 hours ago, QuiGon said:

 

There are preset Phoenix loadouts on the Tomcats? I wasn't aware of that (my pilot is responsible for rearming). That would explain why we weren't able to rearm with new Phoenixes on our 3rd or 4th rearming after returning to the ship (no Phoenixes left in the warehouse), but newly spawned players took off with new Phoenixes (because they spawned with them).

 

Preset as in spawned in with them. I mean that the phoenixes they spawned in with were pulled out of nowhere is my best guess.

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16 hours ago, sLYFa said:

Here is my suggestion for blueship formation and static objects on the carriers. Shouldn't be too fps heave (I used the old Hornet models) but provides for a more "authentic" feel.

Btw I noticed you use a switch waypoint action for the AWACS and Tankers. Could it be that this breaks when they get engaged? You could try the "orbit" enroute task and set the duration to 2h or so and have a new AWACS/tanker spawn after that.

Anyway, hope this helps and looking forward to round 3!

Marianas1991_blue_ships.miz 3.2 MB · 2 downloads

 

 

I'll check it out.

 

16 hours ago, Zachrix said:

Alpen look into the preset loadouts. I saw the Baron crew talking about not being able to take anymore phoenixes and am wondering if the preset loadouts on the tomcat made it so technically there were infinite phoenixes. Perhaps it would be a good idea to wipe preset weapons for the Tomcat specifically.

 

The preset was removed for all aircraft in round 2. There was none.

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Cold War 1947 - 1991

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On 8/1/2021 at 2:39 AM, Alpenwolf said:

 

1:

Which is why I just added more Red aircraft. Exactly my thoughts on that one.

Mi-24's remain all the same. The players didn't do much, although the AAV-7's are literally sitting ducks while crossing the channel between the two islands.

The number of Phoenixes remain as it is. Some other change was made to compensate for that.

 

2:

EWR's strength has been increased increased.

I was doing GCI for Red shortly, then had to step back and just monitor the whole thing.

Aav7s are covered by Hawks and somewhat avenger while swiming. You actualy have less chanse of hiting them while they are in water, because only top is exposed. Hawks got wiped only after they crossed. Forest is dense and unless your aligned with road you wont see them rolling. Only after they took over the airfield did they get wiped.  I must say, I had so much fun flying Hind and shooting them with 30mm. 

Jamming kills amraam loft mode now. Not sure if it does same to phoenix. Mig21s should have used it. Messes up SA of both sides but levels the playing field.


Edited by Apok
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15 hours ago, Alpenwolf said:

 

I'll check it out.

 

 

The preset was removed for all aircraft in round 2. There was none.

Is this only true for Blue? Because I was spawning with presets for the MiG-21, MiG-29, and J11

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Posted (edited)

Round 3 kicks off this Saturday, 14.08.2021, around 1930 zulu.

 

Someone's gotta be GCI for Blue and get them all together, instead of flying solo, otherwise they'll never get past Tinian Island.

 

EDIT:

You can reserve a slot for yourself and 3 additional slots for 3 friends max, and only if they fly on the same side with you, be it Red or Blue.

 

Example:

Alpenwolf - F-15C

 

Alpenwolf1 - AV-8B

Alpenwolf2 - AV-8B

Alpenwolf3 - F-14B


Edited by Alpenwolf
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[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

Cold War 1947 - 1991

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On 8/9/2021 at 7:53 PM, pmiceli said:

=475FG= would like to reserve 2 Hornet slots

=475FG= Dawger |HADES|

=475FG= Dobs |HADES|

 

 

You want to reserve 2 slots for Dawger and Dobs and not for yourself? I see that correctly, right?

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

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33 minutes ago, Alpenwolf said:

 

You want to reserve 2 slots for Dawger and Dobs and not for yourself? I see that correctly, right?

I am Dawger and Dawger is me. Sorry for the confusion.🙂

 

And for what its worth, I thought you were going to use the SSB prefix feature to block slots for those who signed up.

 


Edited by pmiceli

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