Cold War 1947 - 1991 *** 2nd Limited Edition ***

[Alpenwolf]

Round 4:

 

Saturday, 11.09.2021, 1800 zulu.

[carss]

Quick question tho, for Blue forces why not keep the F-14s the A model and same for Red side Mig-29s, let those be A models as well since they can't really use any Active radar missiles anyways so that defeats the main purpose of the Mig-29S. They can be Mig-29As from North Korean faction to make it more realistic. Also maybe you can switch the J-11s to Chinese Su-27s cause even those are available and won't have access to the R-77s

 

EDIT: Also maybe some of those F-15s can be Japanese just to throw those guys into the mix. Also why aren't there any F-5s and Hueys? Unless I may have missed it. If you add Hueys they don't have to be American only, they can be part of Japan, Australia anyone since they're so widely exported

Edited September 6, 2021 by carss

[Alpenwolf]

4 minutes ago, carss said:

Quick question tho, for Blue forces why not keep the F-14s the A model and same for Red side Mig-29s, let those be A models as well since they can't really use any Active radar missiles anyways so that defeats the main purpose of the Mig-29S. They can be Mig-29As from North Korean faction to make it more realistic. Also maybe you can switch the J-11s to Chinese Su-27s cause even those are available and won't have access to the R-77s

 

EDIT: Also maybe some of those F-15s can be Japanese just to throw those guys into the mix. Also why aren't there any F-5s and Hueys? Unless I may have missed it. If you add Hueys they don't have to be American only, they can be part of Japan, Australia anyone since they're so widely exported

 

 

Good point regarding the F-14A's and MiG-29A's. Will do.

 

There is no tasking whatsoever for the Huey's. I thought about adding them to enable some type of sling loading or CTLD, but it would've had been just too much. Besides, Blue can barely gain air superiority around any island. Huey's would be slaughtered and if completing the objective is dependant on them, you'd need a wonder for Blue to finally get the job done. It is tough enough on Blue already.

[Alpenwolf]

Mission's Change Log:

 

- All MiG-29S's were replaced by MiG-29A's.

- Instead of 24 x F-14B's and 4 slots, it's now 28 x F-14A's and 6 slots. So, all F-14B's were replaced by F-14A's.

- Instead of 24 x Su-33's, it's now 28. Slots' number remains the same -> 4.

[sLYFa]

7 hours ago, Alpenwolf said:

now 28 x F-14A's

noooo my poor BFM skills are not prepared for that

[carss]

10 hours ago, Alpenwolf said:

Mission's Change Log:

 

- All MiG-29S's were replaced by MiG-29A's.

- Instead of 24 x F-14B's and 4 slots, it's now 28 x F-14A's and 6 slots. So, all F-14B's were replaced by F-14A's.

- Instead of 24 x Su-33's, it's now 28. Slots' number remains the same -> 4.

Awesome! And it's good to know, I was however hoping for some Hueys and Mi-8s to be able to do some Gunship operations if not cargo or CTLDs but it's all good. Also I think later this yar itself we'll be getting Forrestal Class Carriers from Heatblur so do you think you can add one of those when they get added to the game?

Also I believe China operates Gazelles so maybe that could make for a good Red For Gazelle slots

Edited September 6, 2021 by carss

[Alpenwolf]

19 minutes ago, carss said:

Awesome! And it's good to know, I was however hoping for some Hueys and Mi-8s to be able to do some Gunship operations if not cargo or CTLDs but it's all good. Also I think later this yar itself we'll be getting Forrestal Class Carriers from Heatblur so do you think you can add one of those when they get added to the game?

Also I believe China operates Gazelles so maybe that could make for a good Red For Gazelle slots

 

 

I don't know, that's for future plans. We'll see...

[=475FG= Dawger]

23 hours ago, Alpenwolf said:

 

The first engagements show that Blue did have air superiortiy for a while. Enough time for F/A-18C's to take out 5 units to enable 4 x F-15C's and 2 x M-2000C's if you ask me. AV-8B's could've done some damage as well while the CAP lasted. That's why I'm always reluctant when it comes to adding more units or removing some. No hard feelings, but it is quite often the player's or the players' fault, rather than the mission's design. If only the 104th guys had some time to fly just one round like they did in operation Tiberias to demostrate some high level of coordinated teamwork. On the other hand, they're part of an old squadron with pure dedication, so it's easier to do than it is for random solo players meeting occasionally online.

Apparently, on the second running, the Hornets did kill or damage all of the SAM emitters. However, a damaged emitter does not radiate so it looks dead to a HARM but it is not dead so no trigger to un-block the slots. 

 

If that is the intention, you might want to make it clear that someone needs to visually confirm all emitters are dead. 

 

Otherwise, the Tinian Radars all need UNIT DEAD and UNIT DAMAGED triggers to accomplish the slot unblock. 
 

It is a bit more complicated to script that way. 

[Alpenwolf]

1 hour ago, =475FG= Dawger said:

Apparently, on the second running, the Hornets did kill or damage all of the SAM emitters. However, a damaged emitter does not radiate so it looks dead to a HARM but it is not dead so no trigger to un-block the slots. 

 

If that is the intention, you might want to make it clear that someone needs to visually confirm all emitters are dead. 

 

Otherwise, the Tinian Radars all need UNIT DEAD and UNIT DAMAGED triggers to accomplish the slot unblock. 
 

It is a bit more complicated to script that way. 

 

Ah, come on, you really think that's the case?! I know, it ain't. And it's not much to script. No matter how damaged a ground unit is in DCS, it will still fire all its weapons as if nothing happened to it. The damage model is no secret here, especially for ground units. So, you need to destroy the units completely, otherwise Eagles and Mirages are in trouble.

[=475FG= Dawger]

1 hour ago, Alpenwolf said:

 

Ah, come on, you really think that's the case?! I know, it ain't. And it's not much to script. No matter how damaged a ground unit is in DCS, it will still fire all its weapons as if nothing happened to it. The damage model is no secret here, especially for ground units. So, you need to destroy the units completely, otherwise Eagles and Mirages are in trouble.

An emitter will definitely stop radiating when damaged. I do not know the precise amount of damage required or if it varies by different models.

 

I also know we flew right over Tinian trying to get a radar to emit to shoot at with HARMS after our two sorties firing 16 HARMS and ended up firing at emitters on Rota.

 

And there is this post in this thread.

 

 

 

Quote

  On 8/15/2021 at 7:04 AM, =475FG= Dawger said:

We killed everything that was radiating on Tinian but the ships still cover the island and the HARMS don’t “see” the IR guided stuff. 
 

The balance is an issue with Red able to put up lots of A/A fighters while Blue is flying long distances and 2/3 of the force is dedicated to strike.

I like the mission the way it is but I don’t think Blue can “win” if Red can maintain a CAP. Hornets need Harpoons to kill the ships or Tinian will be covered by ship radar and SAM. 
 

The blue carriers stop after about 5 hours, which is a PITA. The mission needs a timer to cycle to the next one. It was disappointing to find the server stuck on AA late last night.

Expand  

you technically didn't; You dealt 90% damage to the last SA-6 radar, causing it to shut down. However it was not killed and should have been spotted by the AV-8's striking the trucks in the same group

I am not the only one that thinks that a damaged emitter will stop radiating.

 

The only reason I say its a bit more complicated to script is you have to check each emitter for dead or damaged and they can be dead or damaged in any combination. The simplest solution I can think of is to increase a flag by 1 for each emitter that is damaged or dead and then unblock the slots if the flag is greater than 4. It isn't a large scripting mountain or even a small hill but it is a bit more than simply checking if the 5 emitters are dead.

 

My aim here is only to improve the mission. No other agenda.

 

Cheers!

Edited September 6, 2021 by =475FG= Dawger

[Alpenwolf]

1 hour ago, =475FG= Dawger said:

An emitter will definitely stop radiating when damaged. I do not know the precise amount of damage required or if it varies by different models.

 

I also know we flew right over Tinian trying to get a radar to emit to shoot at with HARMS after our two sorties firing 16 HARMS and ended up firing at emitters on Rota.

 

And there is this post in this thread.

 

 

 

I am not the only one that thinks that a damaged emitter will stop radiating.

 

The only reason I say its a bit more complicated to script is you have to check each emitter for dead or damaged and they can be dead or damaged in any combination. The simplest solution I can think of is to increase a flag by 1 for each emitter that is damaged or dead and then unblock the slots if the flag is greater than 4. It isn't a large scripting mountain or even a small hill but it is a bit more than simply checking if the 5 emitters are dead.

 

My aim here is only to improve the mission. No other agenda.

 

Cheers!

 

 

Interesting. The Su-25T's Fantasmagoria would pick up damaged units nonetheless. I just tested that in the ME. However, ME behaviour might differ from the multiplayer's.

Well, in that case, I'd rather have the AV-8B's finish off what's left. I mean, I can't think of all 5 units being damaged to the extent they would stop emitting, but they're still alive. It might happen to 1 unit. 2 max. And it only might. With 6 x Tomcats now instead of 4, I hope Blue strikers would have more time and "safer" conditions to operate.

[Alpenwolf]

Reminder:

 

Round 4 -> Saturday, 11.09.2021, 1800 zulu.

[Brown Floyd]

Seems like the mission is live right now, at Saturday, 11.09.2021, 0700 zulu (unless my math is wrong).

 

Edit: Nevermind, it rotated after a few minutes. A.W. must have been doing some server maintenance or something...

Edited September 11, 2021 by Brown Floyd

[Alpenwolf]

4 hours ago, Brown Floyd said:

Seems like the mission is live right now, at Saturday, 11.09.2021, 0700 zulu (unless my math is wrong).

 

Edit: Nevermind, it rotated after a few minutes. A.W. must have been doing some server maintenance or something...

 

 

I was stress testing the mission and I even wrote that in the chat for you to see 

[mehksauce]

Are you adding any sort of new awacs integration to the server? i feel like this would be a nice welcome QOL addition. Other servers like GAW and buddyspike have their own variant which exceeds far exceptation of dcs vanilla awacs ai, its more competent and reliable. Buddy spike  style is more simple and still effective  that is done through f10 menu, were as GAW style is more verbal usage (need to be on srs) with bot feedbacks. 

more information for overlord bot can be found here https://gitlab.com/overlord-bot/srs-bot/-/wikis/home

as for buddy spike, im not sure if they made it themselves but it works exactly like this 

https://github.com/Bob7heBuilder/EWRS  


There was a thread  in reddit about why cold war and older era server arent as populated, many people gave their opinions but what stand out the most was the fact that awacs in dcs is terrible (im sure everyone experienced getting spammed of bandits 80nm while you have a bandit 25nm closer) Also the spotting, some say its a learning/skill issue but ofc  we all know its not perfect like bms or il2  spotting.  Now spotting is out of our hands  on the other hand, there are these 2 awacs integration that has been  well received from the community and i think it would be great if  this server also  uses it.

[=475FG= Dawger]

9 minutes ago, mehksauce said:

Are you adding any sort of new awacs integration to the server? i feel like this would be a nice welcome QOL addition. Other servers like GAW and buddyspike have their own variant which exceeds far exceptation of dcs vanilla awacs ai, its more competent and reliable. Buddy spike  style is more simple and still effective  that is done through f10 menu, were as GAW style is more verbal usage (need to be on srs) with bot feedbacks. 

more information for overlord bot can be found here https://gitlab.com/overlord-bot/srs-bot/-/wikis/home

as for buddy spike, im not sure if they made it themselves but it works exactly like this 

https://github.com/Bob7heBuilder/EWRS  


There was a thread  in reddit about why cold war and older era server arent as populated, many people gave their opinions but what stand out the most was the fact that awacs in dcs is terrible (im sure everyone experienced getting spammed of bandits 80nm while you have a bandit 25nm closer) Also the spotting, some say its a learning/skill issue but ofc  we all know its not perfect like bms or il2  spotting.  Now spotting is out of our hands  on the other hand, there are these 2 awacs integration that has been  well received from the community and i think it would be great if  this server also  uses it.

F10 EWRS is horrible for VR.

 

I like the idea of the SRS version.

 

What I really like is the human GCI players we have in Cold War on a very regular basis. Whatever we can do to encourage more of that would be awesome.

 

 

[rossmum]

Alpen - you need to add more waypoints to the ships, or make them follow an endless loop. A few hours in, the red fleet stopped dead in the water quite far from the action, so we simultaneously needed to carry more fuel but also had no headwind to get us off the deck safely with a heavier load. Not sure if blue had the same issue.

 

Re EWR, seconding that the F10 version is horrid and I don't even run VR, I just hate having huge text boxes constantly blocking my screen. The SRS bots that are used both by Hoggit's servers and (a different version I believe) Blue Flag are really worth looking into.

Edited September 12, 2021 by rossmum

[Alpenwolf]

13 hours ago, mehksauce said:

Are you adding any sort of new awacs integration to the server? i feel like this would be a nice welcome QOL addition. Other servers like GAW and buddyspike have their own variant which exceeds far exceptation of dcs vanilla awacs ai, its more competent and reliable. Buddy spike  style is more simple and still effective  that is done through f10 menu, were as GAW style is more verbal usage (need to be on srs) with bot feedbacks. 

more information for overlord bot can be found here https://gitlab.com/overlord-bot/srs-bot/-/wikis/home

as for buddy spike, im not sure if they made it themselves but it works exactly like this 

https://github.com/Bob7heBuilder/EWRS  


There was a thread  in reddit about why cold war and older era server arent as populated, many people gave their opinions but what stand out the most was the fact that awacs in dcs is terrible (im sure everyone experienced getting spammed of bandits 80nm while you have a bandit 25nm closer) Also the spotting, some say its a learning/skill issue but ofc  we all know its not perfect like bms or il2  spotting.  Now spotting is out of our hands  on the other hand, there are these 2 awacs integration that has been  well received from the community and i think it would be great if  this server also  uses it.

 

I'll investigate. I like the SRS one more. Sounds better.

 

Thanks for the suggestion!

 

10 hours ago, rossmum said:

Alpen - you need to add more waypoints to the ships, or make them follow an endless loop. A few hours in, the red fleet stopped dead in the water quite far from the action, so we simultaneously needed to carry more fuel but also had no headwind to get us off the deck safely with a heavier load. Not sure if blue had the same issue.

 

Re EWR, seconding that the F10 version is horrid and I don't even run VR, I just hate having huge text boxes constantly blocking my screen. The SRS bots that are used both by Hoggit's servers and (a different version I believe) Blue Flag are really worth looking into.

 

 

Blue carriers were fine throughout the entire mission.

 

- Red carrier's waypoints - Fixed.

- Blue AWACS landing/disappearing after a short while - Fixed.

- MiG-29A's not spawnable - Fixed.

[sLYFa]

It felt a little less organized and more air-quakey this time since we did not have GCI in the first few hours and when we did have one, our Hawkeyes were gone. Not critizing here since this is something out of control of the mission designer and I should've gotten in touch with the other fighters more actively. 

Overall progress for blue was better than last time but I guess this was in part owed to the fact that red didnt have any mig-29s. 

There were several instances of TK and TK attempts by a known offender. My personal 'encounter' when he fired two PH at me from about 15nm, a range at which he easily could've VIDed me with his TCS (not to mention Jester calling out 'friendly') . After I luckily drove his missiles into the water he went on into the merge with me and I really thought about pulling the trigger on him after getting on his six but didn't. Anyway, I think this guy deserves a ban since he really doesnt care about anything except shooting whatever he sees. 

Btw I noticed the blue Tanker was a KC-135 (non drogue version), could this be changed so we can refuel on our way back to the boat? 

Oh and kudos to that mig-21 who forced an overshoot on me, too bad you went into the drink, I'd have loved to continue the turnfight! 

[Alpenwolf]

13 minutes ago, sLYFa said:

It felt a little less organized and more air-quakey this time since we did not have GCI in the first few hours and when we did have one, our Hawkeyes were gone. Not critizing here since this is something out of control of the mission designer and I should've gotten in touch with the other fighters more actively. 

Overall progress for blue was better than last time but I guess this was in part owed to the fact that red didnt have any mig-29s. 

There were several instances of TK and TK attempts by a known offender. My personal 'encounter' when he fired two PH at me from about 15nm, a range at which he easily could've VIDed me with his TCS (not to mention Jester calling out 'friendly') . After I luckily drove his missiles into the water he went on into the merge with me and I really thought about pulling the trigger on him after getting on his six but didn't. Anyway, I think this guy deserves a ban since he really doesnt care about anything except shooting whatever he sees. 

Btw I noticed the blue Tanker was a KC-135 (non drogue version), could this be changed so we can refuel on our way back to the boat? 

Oh and kudos to that mig-21 who forced an overshoot on me, too bad you went into the drink, I'd have loved to continue the turnfight! 

 

The server was running with 51 players (full capacity) for at least 2 hours. Lots of newbies and clueless players who played a huge role in causing chaos. One player even said that he just purchased the Mirage and started asking questions about it. I had to kick him with a message explaining why.

 

Next round will be only for those who show up on TS to grab the password for the server. The good old way of organising events/tournaments, etc.

 

Would the C-130 work as a refueler?

[sLYFa]

48 minutes ago, Alpenwolf said:

Next round will be only for those who show up on TS to grab the password for the server. The good old way of organising events/tournaments, etc.

 

Thats a good idea, looking forward to that!

 

48 minutes ago, Alpenwolf said:

Would the C-130 work as a refueler?

The KC-130 will do yes

Edited September 12, 2021 by sLYFa

[=475FG= Dawger]

1 hour ago, Alpenwolf said:

 

The server was running with 51 players (full capacity) for at least 2 hours. Lots of newbies and clueless players who played a huge role in causing chaos. One player even said that he just purchased the Mirage and started asking questions about it. I had to kick him with a message explaining why.

 

Next round will be only for those who show up on TS to grab the password for the server. The good old way of organising events/tournaments, etc.

 

Would the C-130 work as a refueler?

KC-135 MPRS is the drogue version of the 135.

 

For carrier recovery ops, an S-3B Tanker would be the most appropriate choice in an orbit anchored on the fleet.

 

 

[sLYFa]

Technically yes but an S-3 doesnt carry that much fuel so having a big tanker between Saipan and the battlegroup would be more practical. I certainly wouldn't mind an additional S-3 in a low orbit over the TR though. 

[=475FG= Dawger]

2 hours ago, sLYFa said:

Technically yes but an S-3 doesnt carry that much fuel so having a big tanker between Saipan and the battlegroup would be more practical. I certainly wouldn't mind an additional S-3 in a low orbit over the TR though. 

It would be silly to put an undefended tanker outside the protection of the fleet SAM's. It would die very quickly.

 

The fleet is already far too close to the fight as are the AWACS.

Edited September 12, 2021 by =475FG= Dawger

[rossmum]

I heard blue had some teamkilling issues. One of the more spectacular ones was, at least, a freak accident... a Phoenix somehow did a 10km split-S to hit a friendly passing far underneath the firing Tomcat, who as far as I know was STTing me at the time. Tacview did also reveal some pretty wasteful flying... the victim of the above took 6 Phoenixes, flew below 500ft at M 0.8, then blasted 3 of them at once at a similarly minded J-11 while he was close enough that even a Sidewinder would've made a hit. He spent the other 3 on a MiG-21 at similarly short range.

 

There were also a few cases where people blinded themselves with their own jammers, one Hornet actively steered himself into an R-27ER somehow, and blue lost 5 aircraft for the exchange of 2 Su-33s later in the mission because they all went seagull mode and chased another Su-33 all the way back to Kuznetsov.

 

Overall it seems that when these special, more modern missions run, the side with more of the server's regulars on will win, except in cases where guys like the 104th turn up. More capabilities to play with means more ways to screw up for most people, it seems.