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The IR suppressor has zero effect on the Gazelle


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Contrary to all others helicopters able to equip an IR suppressor, the one on the Gazelle has zero effect on the distance at which an IR missile can lock. 

So while it's not fixed, PSA to all Gazelle players: don't equip it, it adds weight for nothing...

 

Attached: 2 tracks (one Gazelle with IR suppressor, one without) where you can see that I can lock at the same distance in both cases with an Avenger.

Gazelle_no_IR_cover.trk Gazelle_IR_cover.trk

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1 hour ago, Mad_Shell said:

Contrary to all others helicopters able to equip an IR suppressor, the one on the Gazelle has zero effect on the distance at which an IR missile can lock.

AFAIK DCS aircraft have only 2 IR signatures Normal (parked or engine running) and Afterburner, and as helicopters don't have an AB, they have a single heat signature.

 

Do you have a track/mission loadout from another module where IR suppressors have an effect on range, perhaps it's being treated like the Su-25T's IR jammer ?


Edited by Ramsay
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9 hours ago, Ramsay said:

AFAIK DCS aircraft have only 2 IR signatures Normal (parked or engine running) and Afterburner, and as helicopters don't have an AB, they have a single heat signature.

 

Do you have a track/mission loadout from another module where IR suppressors have an effect on range, perhaps it's being treated like the Su-25T's IR jammer ?

 

 

IR system is a bit more complicated. For example, the aspect has an effect on the IR signature too. You can lock a rear aspect jet or helicopter from further away than a front aspect one.

As for examples, here are a bunch of tests I did, some with tracks:

 

Distance at which an Avenger can lock with its stinger missiles:

mi-8 front aspect no suppressor: 2.5 km
mi-8 front aspect suppressor: 1.5 km
mi-24 front aspect no suppressor: 2.1 km
mi-24 front aspect suppressor: 1.5 km
Ka-50 front aspect (no suppressor): 1.5 km
Gazelle front aspect no suppressor: 1.5 km
Gazelle front aspect suppressor: 1.5 km
Mi-28N front aspect (suppressor): 1.5 km


mi-8 rear aspect no suppressor: 6.5 km
mi-8 rear aspect suppressor: 3.5 km
mi-24 rear aspect no suppressor: 5.5 km
mi-24 rear aspect suppressor: 3.0 km
Ka-50 rear aspect (no suppressor): 3.5 km
Gazelle rear aspect no suppressor: 2.5 km
Gazelle rear aspect suppressor: 2.5 km
Mi-28N rear aspect (suppressor): 3.5 km

 

Also @BIGNEWY , seeing the results above, the Ka-50 seems... strange. It's like it has already IR suppressors.

Gazelle_Front_IR_cover.trk Gazelle_Front_no_IR_cover.trk Mi_8_Front_IR_cover.trk Mi_8_Front_no_IR_cover.trk Mi_8_Rear_IR_cover.trk Mi_8_Rear_no_IR_cover.trk Mi_24_Front_IR_cover.trk Mi_24_Front_no_IR_cover.trk

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2 hours ago, Mad_Shell said:

IR system is a bit more complicated. For example, the aspect has an effect on the IR signature too. You can lock a rear aspect jet or helicopter from further away than a front aspect one.

AFAIK the more complex behaviour you are see is because you are testing using a player controlled Avenger and the CA cockpit/UI is taking LOS, aspect and range into account to determine when the player gets a good tone/lock.

 

IIRC the AI (igla manpads) isn't as sophisticated, I know ED have made some recent improvement with the AI's LOS, so would need to retest.

 

I've trawled through the .lua's and databases but unfortunately haven't determined if the issue lies with the Gazelle or ED's Avenger/unit database (perhaps not updated for a 3rd party module).

 

As you say, adding/removing the IR suppressors has an effect on the Avenger's range for the Mi-8/Mi-24. They use the ME special options tab to add/remove their suppressors, while the Gazelle uses the loadout menu - I wonder what they are doing different ?

 

In terms of the detection range, the Gazelle is much smaller and has a single engine compared to the bigger twin engine helicopters, so it's hard to say if the Avenger/stinger is under/over performing vs the Gazelle.

 

3 hours ago, Mad_Shell said:

the Ka-50 seems... strange. It's like it has already IR suppressors.

 

The Ka-50 has IR suppressed exhausts, so is working as expected.

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6 minutes ago, Ramsay said:

AFAIK the more complex behaviour you are see is because you are testing using a player controlled Avenger and the CA cockpit/UI is taking LOS, aspect and range into account to determine when the player gets a good tone/lock.

 

IIRC the AI (igla manpads) isn't as sophisticated, I know ED have made some recent improvement with the AI's LOS, so would need to retest.

 

 

The AI takes the aspect into account as well.

As for the Ka-50, ED wants to add different IR suppressors with Black Shark 3, as seen in the previews they showed, so I wrongly assumed there was none at the moment.

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13 minutes ago, Mad_Shell said:

The AI takes the aspect into account as well.

Doh..., yes you're correct, I forgot the AI treats helicopters similar to a jet with hot/cold exhaust aspects.

 

(I previously tested Igla ranges vs the Gazelle by flying decreasing circles round a manpad until they started firing, hence my mistaken logic).

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