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M-61A1 Sound?


mytai01
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53 minutes ago, mytai01 said:

Why do people think you have to have been an actual pilot and have fired the gun to know anything? That's just ridiculous! We have more than enough evidence to know the facts. The same exact gun is used in many aircraft and there are plenty of videos that show us the gun in action with sound, but despite that, you can't accept it unless an F-14 pilot blesses your determination of the obvious facts. That's not being humble, that just being obtuse. The aircraft wrapped around the gun does not change the nature of the gun, or its sound. In every example, the gun fires the same way at 6,000 rpm, is close to the aircrew, and the same sound transmits through a mostly aluminum and steel structure to the pilot. The type aircraft will determine the direction the sound comes from, but not the character of the sound. It's still going to be a sound that quickly accelerates to, and vibrates the cockpit at 100Hz (6,000 rpm), then stops suddenly as the trigger is released. The only videos that would be completely off, would be those that are in slow motion, or those that show the gun firing at the slower 4,500 rpm rate of fire. None of this is what the HB sound simulates... So, how did HB simulate their sound? Whatever it is, is not anything approaching 6,000 rpm rate of fire...

There are enough other type aircraft firing the same gun that you should know it doesn't sound any different. At least, not significantly enough that you could tell blindfolded...

Go outside dude

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On 8/7/2021 at 8:44 AM, sLYFa said:

You do know the tomcat has a low and high rof setting for the gun? Jesus christ there are many (mostly little) things you would want HB to spend time on but trying to get the gunsound 'right' from low quality recordings and SME memory is really not one of them. 

I know the selector is there in the game, but the gun only has one sound file, as far as I can tell. It's a slower than 6,000 rpm rate of fire. Maybe it is the 4,500 rpm rate of fire...

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On 8/7/2021 at 9:47 AM, LanceCriminal86 said:

 

You have not provided any video of an F-14 shooting the gun, inside or outside. Clips of F-15E, F-15C, F-16C, and F/A-18C shooting the gun in strafing passes all sounded substantially different from each other. And even none of those passes were having the listener from the same angle, same duration of burst, nor are the guns in those jets mounted in even remotely the same way as the F-14.

 

I know of one camcorder clip of a Tomcat doing a gun pass, with typical 80s/90s camcorder quality. And as has been pointed out before, sound is a complicated subject depending on the angle it's being heard from, the speed of the object, and the Doppler effect.

Are you going to claim that all M61A1's sound different from one another? We're talking about all variables being controlled except the aircraft type being allowed to vary between F-14/15/16/and 18. They are all going to sound so close to each other that you'd not be able to tell with your eyes closed...

On 8/7/2021 at 11:15 AM, DD_Fenrir said:

I have just reached a point where I fear that my own intellect is at risk of incretination by the sheer level of dumbass emanating from this thread, so I’ll be leaving now and I urge anyone else who values their grey matter to follow forthwith.

What was the point your were trying to make, anyway?

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On 8/7/2021 at 12:42 PM, Victory205 said:

 

Good move.

 

Before I go, I will reveal that M61A1 sounds like the one in the video above, but disgronificated to smooth the amplitude spikes and synchronize the nodal impurities in the fourth and fifth octaves.

 

Unless the aircraft is inverted, of course.

I'm sure you did the job you were asked to do, and I hope they paid you for it...;)

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On 8/7/2021 at 4:56 PM, Nexus-6 said:

If deferring to the people with tangible experience that neither of us has the room to speak with authority about marks me as a "fanboy" in your estimation, then so be it. I've been called a lot worse by others whose opinions meant a lot more. And, I'm sorry, but I'll take their testimony over whatever YouTube video(s) you'll be presenting. They were there, you were not.

 

Go and die on this hill if it makes you feel vindicated, but this particular horse was beaten to death a long time ago, and I'm walking away. If Heatblur decides the gun's sound needs improved upon, they'll do it. If not, then I guess you'll just have to live with what might have been.

No SME has given a serious response to this question. The Victory205 wasn't given that task by HB, and didn't deal with it here. You have never been given any testimony on the subject, and all you have is videos. Just like the rest of us.

On 8/10/2021 at 5:33 PM, RaisedByWolves said:

Im just wondering when we will get glove vanes. I know they were deactivated but come on!!!!!

I guess they'd have to want to do that, and have the data to put it in the flight model. I'm not sure they ever intended to do that...

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1 hour ago, DD_Fenrir said:

Way to go insulting devs. 

 

What a pretentious, obnoxious little diva.

Again, what do you bring to this conversation? You haven't offered anything except personal attacks. What do you have to show that the HB simulation of the gun is an accurate reproduction of the sound? I've been bringing videos, and logic, to make my point. Try doing that...

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26 minutes ago, Victory205 said:

When it comes to using Youtube as a source, this says it all-

 

 

Hilarious movie! I try to stay away from Hollywood as an example, or anything that seems like it's had sound added in post production. It would be wrong to say that a video of an actual weapon with raw sound is a legitimate source of information. Repeated such videos add to the body of evidence. None of it supports HB's rendition. At this point, you're kind of joking around about the issue, it seems...;)

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On 8/15/2021 at 2:57 AM, TLTeo said:

@IronMike At this point this thread is entirely useless, could it please be closed?

That'd be just shutting one's mouth. Never a good thing when some good points are raised and stay not answered. DCS devs have a good history of defending their modeling despite many conplaints that something is wrong only to have it corrected after years.

Sure, some bad words were used @mytai01 so be careful with that.

Afaik SMEs are not allowed to make any comments on the weapons and their systems so joking around may be their only option.


Edited by draconus
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@IronMikeCan we please get an explanation of how HB recorded or created the gun sounds?  This would go a long way in helping resolve this dispute.  

 

I don't know if @mytai01is right or wrong, but a valid point has been made and everyone else has just made a mockery of the situation.

 

 

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I'd also say this is worth closing down. It's turning into one of those monologues by "you know who", same track on repeat over and over again 😕 

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18 hours ago, mytai01 said:

There are enough other type aircraft firing the same gun that you should know it doesn't sound any different. At least, not significantly enough that you could tell blindfolded...

 

I have looked at 10 different Youtube videos of the M61A1 firing. I've heard 10 different sounds. Heck, I've heard it sounding differently in one video, too. You're not listening to what people are saying. And that's your problem, that is why nobody can take you seriously. Nobody outright disagrees with you. Nobody in this thread said "the sound is perfect."

 

What the people in this thread are saying is that your evidence is not good enough. Doesn't mean you're wrong. It just means you're not right based on your evidence. Your argument fails on merits. What would a good piece of evidence be? Not whatever SMEs are saying. No offense to Victory and the others, but all of them haven't fired the M61A1 in a Tomcat in at least 15 years, their memory is most likely not going to be the most accurate. It's just human nature, memory degrades after a while. While I am sure they could immediately say "Yep, that's an M61A1!" It's probably harder for them to say why and/or if something's *not* an M61A1.

 

Having said that. Here's the evidence that you need to provide to actually have a serious discussion: A sound sample showcasing the M61A1 as heard inside a Tomcat, a pilot's helmet, with earprotection/radio plugs inserted at various speeds and altitudes. That's the only way you can have an argument. Because that is what DCS is simulating. Unless you come up with that. All your personal attacks, your smug attitude and frustrated venting is only going to accomplish the loss of credibility that you are experiencing right now.

 

And yes, at this point closing the thread wouldn't hurt. And since I'm fairly certain it's impossible for you to come up with the evidence I suggested earlier, it's probably not a loss to dismiss you and your case for the time being.


Edited by Slant
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Posted (edited)
On 8/14/2021 at 1:38 PM, DD_Fenrir said:

I hope they NEVER change it just to provide you with ongoing source of torment to the end of your days because you richly deserve it.

I'm not sure what's going on with you, but you're out of line. You've provided zero legitimate input. You're stuck making nonsensical personal attacks. I'm confident that developers and SME's are all big boys & girls, that can handle some criticism. And, if they aren't, then oh well. It's still coming. Besides, we've already established the the SME wasn't asked about the subject, and didn't comment on it. The choice was made by others at HB. BTW, ED only came up with their Vulcan gun sounds a few short years ago. It's a vast improvement from what it was.


Edited by mytai01
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On 8/14/2021 at 2:57 PM, TLTeo said:

@IronMike At this point this thread is entirely useless, could it please be closed?

Have you missed the point of the forum? One of the most important purposes is to report possible bugs. Or, anything of concern about the products that these companies are producing. HB stated that they wouldn't change anything unless the SME said something about it. If Victory 205 is the SME, then he stated he didn't say anything, one way or another, about it. I brought it up as a possible issue. The adults can decide if they want to address the issue, or not, but I'm going to report it, never the less. Scoffers not withstanding.

On 8/14/2021 at 3:03 PM, BreaKKer said:

Go outside dude

Thanks! I've already had a busy day outside...😃

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I'm not offended by any of the hostility shown by some. It's amusing. No one should be afraid to speak their mind, nor that someone will have their feelings hurt, least of all the developers and consultants. I'm sure we all want to see the most realistic experience that can be had on the PC. That is the point of a simulation!

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8 hours ago, Slant said:

 

I have looked at 10 different Youtube videos of the M61A1 firing. I've heard 10 different sounds. Heck, I've heard it sounding differently in one video, too. You're not listening to what people are saying. And that's your problem, that is why nobody can take you seriously. Nobody outright disagrees with you. Nobody in this thread said "the sound is perfect."

 

What the people in this thread are saying is that your evidence is not good enough. Doesn't mean you're wrong. It just means you're not right based on your evidence. Your argument fails on merits. What would a good piece of evidence be? Not whatever SMEs are saying. No offense to Victory and the others, but all of them haven't fired the M61A1 in a Tomcat in at least 15 years, their memory is most likely not going to be the most accurate. It's just human nature, memory degrades after a while. While I am sure they could immediately say "Yep, that's an M61A1!" It's probably harder for them to say why and/or if something's *not* an M61A1.

 

Having said that. Here's the evidence that you need to provide to actually have a serious discussion: A sound sample showcasing the M61A1 as heard inside a Tomcat, a pilot's helmet, with earprotection/radio plugs inserted at various speeds and altitudes. That's the only way you can have an argument. Because that is what DCS is simulating. Unless you come up with that. All your personal attacks, your smug attitude and frustrated venting is only going to accomplish the loss of credibility that you are experiencing right now.

 

And yes, at this point closing the thread wouldn't hurt. And since I'm fairly certain it's impossible for you to come up with the evidence I suggested earlier, it's probably not a loss to dismiss you and your case for the time being.

 

All the M61A1 Vulcans should sound the same. That would be a logical conclusion. there's no reason that it would sound different in any fighter type aircraft, and that includes the F-14. Therefore, it should sound the same in DCS in all other aircraft. Being mounted in different locations on different aircraft isn't going to change anything but the direction from which it's heard, but that's not a sound change. It'll still have the same buzz saw sound at 100Hz. The tone would be the same, the intensity might be a little more or less in different jets but not likely by much.

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3 hours ago, mytai01 said:

All the M61A1 Vulcans should sound the same. That would be a logical conclusion. there's no reason that it would sound different in any fighter type aircraft, and that includes the F-14. Therefore, it should sound the same in DCS in all other aircraft. Being mounted in different locations on different aircraft isn't going to change anything but the direction from which it's heard, but that's not a sound change. It'll still have the same buzz saw sound at 100Hz. The tone would be the same, the intensity might be a little more or less in different jets but not likely by much.

 

I suggest you talk to a friend that knows something about acoustics. "Sound the same" is such a misguided concept. Before you understand why, we can't have this discussion, honestly.

 

Why does the same piano sound different in your living room and in Albert Music Hall? Why does the same shout sound different if I'm next to you or half a mile away? This isn't complicated, this is common sense. The same string will produce a different sound based on it being in a Steinway case or a cardbox mock-up. Acoustics is complicated and not at all as easy as you think it is.

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5 hours ago, mytai01 said:

Have you missed the point of the forum? One of the most important purposes is to report possible bugs.

And you did with OP. All the rest is just trolling because you don't involve in the discussion and don't answer any questions - just monologue.

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2 hours ago, draconus said:

And you did with OP. All the rest is just trolling because you don't involve in the discussion and don't answer any questions - just monologue.

 

Yeah, time to get @BIGNEWY or @NineLine in here and close this sucker down before it becomes a tornado with all this going around and around. I know I'm not exactly innocent here, but I did try to offer some advice of what the OP could do to make things better. But he's heck bent on being a German Model Railroad enthusiast bolt counter, so, that's on him at this point.

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Hey now, leave those poor German model railroad enthusiasts out of this, they're harmless poor souls that have no life and having spoken to quite a number of them, they are FAR MORE tolerant of different viewpoints than the average internet forum user is. 😄

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If you wish to make a bug report please include a track replay example in a new thread, if you have real world sound examples that you think are better please feel free to reach out to the team.

 

Please remember the rules when posting here on the forum, comparisons with other games are not welcome. 

 

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