Jump to content

Wing-sweep auto-trim


BreaKKer
 Share

Recommended Posts

5:46, 4-ship F-14D from VF-31 in the CASE I commence, sweeping their wings back in sync without breaking formation. My squadron mates and I were curious about seeing this in some other cruise videos. We assumed it was
A. DFCS Autotrimming the HOZ stabs
B. All 4 jets holding back on the trim hat in sync (This is what my squadron currently does)


Seeing as how this is DFCS jets, we were curious if the DFCS brought wing-sweep auto-trim to the table, or if AFCS jets potentially had something similar. Would love some feedback from any previous F-14 crewmembers on how this was done in real life before and after DFCS was introduced.

BreaKKer "Holdback"

CSG-2 - CVW-3

VF-154 Black Knights RIO
CSG-2 Website

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

17 minutes ago, Spartan111sqn said:

With autopilot ATT hold works also in F14A/B, trim automatically when you sweep wings, am i wrong?

Yes, but you can’t just use autopilot in a 4-ship CASE 1 commence

BreaKKer "Holdback"

CSG-2 - CVW-3

VF-154 Black Knights RIO
CSG-2 Website

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

46 minutes ago, Spartan111sqn said:

Why not?, looks a quiet flight transition

As someone who has flown the -4 slot in my squadron, you can't take your eyes off of -1 while in a turn, also while transitioning from cruise formation to parade. Also, you need to keep turning to stay inside the CCZ


Edited by BreaKKer

BreaKKer "Holdback"

CSG-2 - CVW-3

VF-154 Black Knights RIO
CSG-2 Website

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Syncrho’d wing sweeping? Maybe the simplest explanation - on call from 1, all sweep manually? Sweep rate will be same in all a/c anyway, only variable would be the start initiated by crews. 

Alien desktop PC, Intel i7-8700 CPU@3.20GHz 6 Core, Nvidia GTX 1070, 16GB RAM. TM Warthog stick and Throttles. Saitek ProFlight pedals.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, G.J.S said:

Syncrho’d wing sweeping? Maybe the simplest explanation - on call from 1, all sweep manually? Sweep rate will be same in all a/c anyway, only variable would be the start initiated by crews. 

Exactly, but the wings sweeping aft creates different CG and therefore, the trim of the aircraft changes. All 4 jets would have to do it exactly on the dot, while also holding back on the trim the same amount

BreaKKer "Holdback"

CSG-2 - CVW-3

VF-154 Black Knights RIO
CSG-2 Website

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 minutes ago, BreaKKer said:

Exactly, but the wings sweeping aft creates different CG and therefore, the trim of the aircraft changes. All 4 jets would have to do it exactly on the dot, while also holding back on the trim the same amount

Shouldn’t be too hard, used to group sweep up to 4 Tornado in a parade simultaneously, trimming isn’t that much of a headache if you are expecting it. Bit of a party piece given that one of Tornados nicknames was the “Flick-Knife”.

Alien desktop PC, Intel i7-8700 CPU@3.20GHz 6 Core, Nvidia GTX 1070, 16GB RAM. TM Warthog stick and Throttles. Saitek ProFlight pedals.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think the difficulty comes from DCS specific reasons. I expect trimming her would be easier IRL. In a sim though, people are often forced to count clicks.....

Current modules:

FC3, Mirage 2000C, Harrier AV-8B NA, F-5, AJS-37 Viggen, F-14B, F-14A, Combined Arms, F/A-18C, F-16C, MiG-19P, F-86, FW-190A, Spitfire Mk IX, UH-1 Huey, Su-25, P-51PD, Caucasus map, Nevada map, Persian Gulf map, Marianas map, Syria Map......ah yes, forgot the Super Carrier! Shows you how often i fly these days....

Modules in waiting: MiG-23, A-6, F-4U, F-8, Falklands Map

Wish list: South East Asia map, F-4J/N, F-15A/C, Su-27, Sea Harrier FRS.1, Mirage III, MiG-17.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 hours ago, BreaKKer said:

Exactly, but the wings sweeping aft creates different CG and therefore, the trim of the aircraft changes. All 4 jets would have to do it exactly on the dot, while also holding back on the trim the same amount

 

It's the center of lift that moves aft which makes the nose drop. Trimming is also done off forces in real life and you have different cues as well. Do you fly in real life, even GA?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 7/10/2021 at 8:15 PM, Skysurfer said:

Then why does the nose drop if the CG moves aft? 😉 

Center of lift moves even farther aft.

🖥️ i3-10100F 3.6-4.3GHz, 32GB DDR4 2666, GTX970 4GB, SSD SATA3   🥽 Rift S   🕹️ T16000M HOTAS   ✈️ FC3, F-14A/B   🚢 Supercarrier    🌍 NTTR, PG

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, DD_Fenrir said:

Bear in mind that IRL only the stick forces change not the stick position...

That is not true, is it? If you fly level wing forward and sweep wing aft, your CL will shift aft and you are going to need more hor. stab deflection (pull the stick aft) to maintain level flight at increased AOA.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, Golo said:

That is not true, is it? If you fly level wing forward and sweep wing aft, your CL will shift aft and you are going to need more hor. stab deflection (pull the stick aft) to maintain level flight at increased AOA.

 

Good point, I was thinking in regards to speed changes in a conventional aircraft...

 

However, in this specific case, regards holding formation, as long as all pilots hold their position on their leader, if he holds stick position and allows turnrate to drop as CL moves aft rather than adjust the control column to maintain turnrate, it should not matter... the nett result would be the same. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, DD_Fenrir said:

Good point, I was thinking in regards to speed changes in a conventional aircraft...

 

However, in this specific case, regards holding formation, as long as all pilots hold their position on their leader, if he holds stick position and allows turnrate to drop as CL moves aft rather than adjust the control column to maintain turnrate, it should not matter... the nett result would be the same. 

I think if you sweep wing aft and hold stick where it is there should be no change in stick forces (?maybe?, hard to say in sim, as Ive never been in F-14), your nose is just going down. And if you let it, it should speed up and gradually pick its nose back up to level flight with same stick position.

 

Anyway Ive never have any trouble keeping in formation during commence from pos.3 in stack 1, we just called ready wings back, now. And there really wasnt any problems keeping in formation during wing sweep. More problematic was actually keeping formation during acceleration from stack 250kias to initial 400kias during the turn. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 Share

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...