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Hind - Wanting to understand power system loss


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Coming off the Huey - I'm finding the Hind both enjoyable and frustrating. The main issue at present is that from time to time it seems I lose power for a short while, and then it comes back on.

 

This causes Petrovitch to need to 'turn on' weapons again - meaning another 3 minute wait before shooting....  but more importantly - my fan stops working properly and I start to get hot in the cockpit. 😄

 

Seriously though - I know that I'm unfamiliar with this bird - and it's most likely something I'm doing silly (although at times it seems all I'm wanting to do is lift off into a hover and stay there - it's fine for a short while, and then on occasion the power drops - I hear a 'cough' in the system somewhere and then shortly afterwards power kicks back in again) and all is OK. Other times it's me pulling out of a dive (plenty of speed on) - so I know it's not limited just to hovering.,

 

Just wondering if anyone can point me in the right direction for understanding this phenomenon and how to avoid it please so my fan can remain constant and online always... (as well of course as my other "less important" systems 😉 ). 

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One reason for power loss is the rotor RPM dropping below the point where it can drive the generators.

This usually happens if you demand too much power too quickly and the engines cannot keep up. Once the rotor RPM drop a bit you lose a lot of lift and often the reaction to that is more collective which will draw more power from the rotor lowering the RPM further until the generators fall offline or even to the point where you fall out of the sky.

 

That said I don't think this should happen in a stable hover once it has been established, since power demands don't change in that case - so it could be damage/failure/bug. I once had the yaw AP going haywire on me ultimately crashing the bird but since I was on a MP server and had Tacview disabled I can't be sure it wasn't battle damage.

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Overcharged hind + sudden right rudder correction during a hover in conditions already demanding max power (high temp, OGE hover, high alt, etc...) can probably lead to a temporary loss of generator

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Dangerzone, in hover, does it happen when you're in stable hover or are you going up and down.

You said you are flying Huey. Go fast close to the ground, flare hard and, (this is important) drop collective to maintain height. Keep nose up until you almost stop and then pull collective to not hit the ground. You will most probably lost enough RPM for siren to blare at you. Same thing is going on with Hind, just on a larger scale.

One thing you must keep in mind at all times is that these engines are a lot bigger and heavier and need more time to respond.

As for power loss during dive recovery, what is going on is you unload rotor during dive, so engines spool down to prevent overspeed. Once you start recovery, you start pulling on that collective, rotor is now loaded and starts drooping. Engines are now spooling up, but they can't spool up quick enough, so rotor RPM go bellow generator trip limit.

 

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Something I picked up with the Hind and it's helped a lot, mostly in regular flight and attack regimes, that you can't really trip the generators if you don't move the collective so much. What I have been doing is setting the altitude (B) channel AP on as soon as I'm off in normal flight and from there on out I can basically take my hand off the collective. 
unless I need to clear an obstacle in a hurry because I was head down in the pit or just need to start climbing mountains, the B channel will maintain altitude wherever you leave it and allow you to fly the bird more like an airplane instead of a helicopter. 
When I'm on the attack, keeping the channel on allows me to focus on actually performing the attack and only using the cyclic and pedals to maintain aim, since I'm not pulling collective I'm not changing the torque or lift response of the helicopter and therefore I can stay on target. Bugging out I'll put my hand on the collective again as I leave the area but then I only need small movements to keep things where I need them. 

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Posted (edited)

Like the MI-8, a lot of respect is required for these machines.

Take everything slow initially and then as you learn the airframe slowly, start to push the airframe to its limits.

 

There are a lot of problems with the Huey that cause serious problems when the sim pilot moves onto the better modelled modules.

I think the hind is going to be the most dynamically modelled chopper module in DCS, I just feel it in my stick.

 

Regarding OP, you are where I was at with the MI-8 years ago. do not hard manoeuvre and drop your main rotor speed. 

 


Edited by Rogue Trooper
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19 hours ago, MAXsenna said:

Turn on the fan, and you'll easily see when this happens, it stops.
When it starts again, you're back to normal.
Cheers!

Sent from my MAR-LX1A using Tapatalk
 

 

Great minds think alike. That's what I've been using the fan for. Only problem I find is that it takes 3 minutes to warm up the weapons again - so it's back to normal 3 minutes after the fan starts spinning again for me. Now that I know what's causing it - I just need to get a feel for the limits. Also knowing that right turns require more power - I'll be making my turns all left from now on which I think will help.

18 hours ago, admiki said:

Dangerzone, in hover, does it happen when you're in stable hover or are you going up and down.

You said you are flying Huey. Go fast close to the ground, flare hard and, (this is important) drop collective to maintain height. Keep nose up until you almost stop and then pull collective to not hit the ground. You will most probably lost enough RPM for siren to blare at you. Same thing is going on with Hind, just on a larger scale.

One thing you must keep in mind at all times is that these engines are a lot bigger and heavier and need more time to respond.

As for power loss during dive recovery, what is going on is you unload rotor during dive, so engines spool down to prevent overspeed. Once you start recovery, you start pulling on that collective, rotor is now loaded and starts drooping. Engines are now spooling up, but they can't spool up quick enough, so rotor RPM go bellow generator trip limit.

 

 

Thanks for the illustration. Yeah - in the Huey I'm often hearing the siren. I'm just pushing it a bit too hard. I guess I was expecting an alarm in the Hind too - but the fan will be the substitute I guess. ;)

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Posted (edited)

Had this a few times also , when coming out of an attack in a dive causing over speed too much throttle  . 

Also I've gone to Center stick for trim as the default throws the trim out by double inputs making the hind behave erratic . 

Shallowing my attacks and banks seems to cure the power lose with center throttle  .


Edited by KoN

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Being too violent with the controls and collective.  Where as with a Huey it just bogs the RPM down, in the HIND all the systems rely on that rpm to function. There is no reason to be so violent with the controls.

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44 minutes ago, Apok said:

Turn on APU generator and leave APU running after main engines have started.

Is there a negative effect to running the apu with the main engine anyways?

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Posted (edited)

Higher fuel consumption, very loud and distinctive sound when the APU is on, and can become quite annoying listening it after a while.

APU is meant only for start up the engines (and stopping the engines for having power for some systems before completely shutting down the airplane which is pretty common on larger passenger/transport jets) and turning on critical systems that requile lots of power and engines don't generate enough RPM for the systems yet.


Edited by SmukY
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Helicopters don't fly, they just subdue the air.

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Well, its like a little jet engine. Should have no problems runing the whole time. Noise is less then gunner screaming while you plumet to ground with no power. 😁

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1 minute ago, Apok said:

Well, its like a little jet engine. Should have no problems runing the whole time. Noise is less then gunner screaming while you plumet to ground with no power. 😁

 

 

 

DCS does not simulate maintenance or failures over time for the APU, and there is no penalty for not following the checklist, so there is no downside (other than moving from simulator to video game) to running the APU all the time.

 

 

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Posted (edited)

APU load is constant. I fail to see it being prone to damage while runing longer. It is intended to be used during flight if needed beside on takeoff and at landings. Fuel consumption should be 120kg/h.


Edited by Apok
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AI-9V has a real world limitation, but not an in-game limitation. Just depends if you're trying to fly it like the real world or like a game. I mean you bought it you can play it how you like. As long as you are not under the illusion that you're doing so realistically.

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2 hours ago, AlphaOneSix said:

AI-9V has a real world limitation, but not an in-game limitation. Just depends if you're trying to fly it like the real world or like a game. I mean you bought it you can play it how you like. As long as you are not under the illusion that you're doing so realistically.

I would really love to see reactions if ED put real flight and damage models out.

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Posted (edited)
10 minutes ago, admiki said:

I would really love to see reactions if ED put real flight and damage models out.

 

They should add wear and tear of everything that has some limitations but we have to keep in mind that with many restrictions you would still be able to use the equipment for a lot of time out of recommended time limit before failure but it would impact service life greatly which you will never be penalised for in the sim. 

 

One example are the engines if I remember correctly take off power shouldn't last more than 6 minutes if you go over that service life will be impacted greatly BUT engines are still designed to last up to 60 minutes in that regime and would eventually catastrophically fail and cease to work


Edited by XPACT
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