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AGM-114 Hellfire II and AH-64D Block 2 capabilities


pappachuck
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From what is possible to find about the AH64D block 2 is that the AGM-114 variants of the Hellfire 2 all have advanced INS navigation and the AGM-114L has Fire and Forget capability. The AGM-114R and the JAGMs came down the road and widely implemented the Fire and Forget among advancements in the warheads, multi-purpose warheads and much more.

I would expect nothing less than the 4 variants and all the other weapons  (APKWS, Stinger, AIM-9 Sidewinder, Mistral and Sidearm) which are integrated in all AH-64D Block 2. It does not matter if it follows the US ARMY doctrine or the Saudi Arabia Doctrine, it is about the airframe and what it is capable so we can create our own doctrines and missions on the mission editor picking the weapons we want.

Boeing AH-64 Apache weapons

A 30mm automatic Boeing M230 chain gun is located under the fuselage. It provides a rate of fire of 625 rounds a minute. The helicopter has capacity for up to 1,200 rounds of ammunition.

AH-64D is armed with the Lockheed Martin / Boeing AGM-114D Longbow Hellfire air-to-surface missile, which has a millimetre wave seeker that allows the missile to perform in full fire and forget mode. Its range is 8km to 12km.

The Apache attack helicopter can be equipped with air-to-air missiles (Stinger, AIM-9 Sidewinder, Mistral and Sidearm) and the advanced precision kill weapon system (APKWS), formerly known as Hydra, family of guided and unguided 70mm rockets. Plans to arm the Apache with the advanced precision kill weapon system (APKWS) II, a laser-guided version of the Hydra, were shelved in the FY2008 budget. The US Army awarded BAE Systems a development contract for the APKWS II in April 2006.

British Army AH mk1 helicopters are armed with the CRV7 70mm rocket system from Bristol Aerospace of Winnipeg, Manitoba.

The Longbow Apache carries the combination of armaments chosen for the particular mission. In the close support role, the helicopter carries 16 Hellfire missiles on four four-rail launchers and four air-to-air missiles.

Hellfire II missile variants

The Hellfire II missile is currently produced in five variants. AGM-114K is a high-explosive anti-tank missile equipped with a tandem shaped-charge warhead to defeat all current and projected armoured threats.

The MMW radar Longbow Hellfire (AGM-114L) missile provides fire-and-forget capability even in adverse weather conditions. The AGM-114M is a blast fragmentation missile designed for soft targets such as buildings, bunkers, light-armoured vehicles and caves.

The AGM-114N is a metal augmented charge (MAC) variant deployed against enclosed structures with minimum collateral damage.

The AGM-114R multipurpose missile is the latest in the Hellfire II missile range. Also known as the Hellfire Romeo, the missile integrates capabilities of all previous Hellfire II variants equipped with semi-active laser (SAL) seekers into a single missile, defeating a range of targets.

From launch to detonation sequence, the Hellfire Romeo incorporates a variety of technological improvements that enhance its effectiveness and utility.

The first proof-of-principle (POP) flight test for AGM-114R was successfully conducted in October 2009, while the second POP was completed in April 2010. Lockheed Martin conducted the third POP test in August 2010.

Sixth and the final POP test was conducted in March 2011. All the tests were successfully carried out at Eglin Air Force Base, Florida.

 

Sources:

https://www.army-technology.com/projects/apache/

https://www.army-technology.com/projects/hellfire-ii-missile/

https://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/us-hellfire-missile-orders-fy-2011-2014-07019/

 

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Considering we're getting a Late Block II (https://forums.eagle.ru/topic/273179-dcs-ah-64d-development-report-4th-june-2021/?do=findComment&comment=4684398), the APKWS is not a realistic weapon for our Apache, since late block II would be around 2008-2011ish. According to your own source, the first ever test of an APKWS on the Apache was in 2013. Same goes for the AGM-114R, which entered service in late 2012.

As for the Stinger ATAS, CRV-7, AIM-9/Sidearms and Mistrals, these were not used on AH-64D Block II in US Army service and ED already confirmed these were not part of their plans.

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I'm having a feeling of deja vu right now.

Again, the Romeo hellfire has additional FLAT and LOFT trajectories and programmable airburst altitude which our version isn't capable of displaying.

I don't see a single flashcard or material showing JAGM integration on current service units, and it is of course not compatible with 2010 aircraft.

The AIM-9 and AIM-122 were just tests (I think they were installed for demo purposes only), I believe there was no AIM-122 left by the era the D model Apache entered service.

The ATAS is only integrated into export apaches, they require a software that is able to display the associated symbology and function,also, not compatible.

The APKWS was not available to the apache even on mid 2012 for sure, some sources quote APKWS was authorized for use around 2015, they are compatible with our apache but they are anachronistic.

Regarding the INS navigation for HF, I already told that the SAL 2 hellfires cannot inertially guide themselves to the targets, they require active LRFD lasing.

There is no target data handover for SAL missiles unlike RF ones.

They just have an internal autopilot that follows trajectories until they get a lock on a laser with proper PRF/PIM codes.

All of these are not doctrine, but technical limitations of the aircraft being modeled.

 

 

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Posted (edited)

"I would expect nothing less than the 4 variants and all the other weapons "

 

Disappointment is nothing more than failed expectation.

 

You can't set ED's road map.  They've already done so (and even put a big "Subject to Change" sticker on it...  FYI) so...  Just go read what we're getting and then sit back and quietly wait for it.  No sense in setting yourself up for disappointment dude...


Edited by M1Combat
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There is the Hardware which is the Aircraft and there is the software which has slight changes between nations, but the ATAS is almost plug and play. Hardware wise there is very little changes and there is even a mount fabricated for it. The USA did not opt for it.

 

Romeo hellfire's are not compatible with the AH64D and that is understandable, I was not asking for that. 

 

APKWS is totally acceptable since there are still AH64D block 2 today flying around that could be using them given a doctrine change.

 

All modern missiles have INS, I think you are debating semantics however that's how they are engineered, it is part of their flight control unit it might need the SAL or any other seeker to effectively hit the target but it does not change the fact it does have INS inside of it.

 

What I think you believe I am referring is that AGM-114 K,L,M are little JDAMs which they are not. 

 

I found a jewel from 1983:

 

 

 

The current countries that operate AH64Ds same aircraft as the United States, some have software upgrades:

23px-Flag_of_Egypt.svg.png Egypt
23px-Flag_of_Greece.svg.png Greece
21px-Flag_of_Israel.svg.png Israel
23px-Flag_of_Japan.svg.png Japan
23px-Flag_of_Kuwait.svg.png Kuwait
23px-Flag_of_the_Netherlands.svg.png Netherlands
23px-Flag_of_Saudi_Arabia.svg.png Saudi Arabia
23px-Flag_of_Singapore.svg.png Singapore
23px-Flag_of_South_Korea.svg.png South Korea
23px-Flag_of_the_Republic_of_China.svg.p Taiwan
23px-Flag_of_the_United_Arab_Emirates.sv United Arab Emirates
23px-Flag_of_the_United_Kingdom.svg.png United Kingdom
23px-Flag_of_the_United_States.svg.png United States
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Posted (edited)

ED has building a AH-64D Block IIA apache from UsArmy. By now, ED has only confirmed Chain Gun 30mm, Rockets and only AGM-114K (SALH) and AGM-114L (I/TMMWH) version 3D models has presents on DCS directories. No ATAS planned on ED module and none show on develop pics.

 

In_Dev_04.06.2021.3.jpg

dcs-world-flight-simulator-ah-64d-02.png


Edited by Silver_Dragon

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You're missing the point...

"Romeo hellfire's are not compatible with the AH64D and that is understandable, I was not asking for that. 

 

APKWS is totally acceptable since there are still AH64D block 2 today flying around that could be using them given a doctrine change."

 

ED have already said what they're doing.  Maybe let them get somewhere near the finish line of what they said they're doing (subject to change) and then drop a hint or two but I can guarantee you...  saying BS like...

 

"I would expect nothing less than the 4 variants and all the other weapons "

 

will only make them ignore you AND it's rude.

 

Stop please.

 

I would love to have the APKWS as well...  As would many others.  But there are much better ways of "making demands" that are "not making demands".

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Asus Prime X570P

AMD 3800x

32GB G-Skill RipJaw 3600

 

Saitek X-65F and Fanatec Club-Sport Pedals

Using VJoy and UCR to remap Throttle and Clutch into Rudder axis

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Posted (edited)
On 7/7/2021 at 2:19 PM, pappachuck said:

There is the Hardware which is the Aircraft and there is the software which has slight changes between nations, but the ATAS is almost plug and play. Hardware wise there is very little changes and there is even a mount fabricated for it. The USA did not opt for it.

-snip-

APKWS is totally acceptable since there are still AH64D block 2 today flying around that could be using them given a doctrine change.

-snip-

 

1) ATAS is not plug and play.  The only thing that the US Army AH-64D's have that provided growth for air-to-air missiles are a few mounting lugs on the wingtips and a few buttons on the cockpit controls (none of which do anything in the era ED is apparently modelling).  In the US Army AH-64D, there isn't even wiring going to the wingtips for air-to-air missiles, and there is no avionics capability to employ the munitions either.  This was already debated in another thread that has since been locked, but you can read about it here.  This feature has been listed as "not realistic for simulated version".

 

2) I'm assuming APKWS isn't being included because the weapon didn't exist at the time the Apache version ED is making was in service, not because of any doctrine.  Wags made a post on 21 June, which included a document showing cockpit controls for a "Late-Block II, 2005-2010".  If that document indicates the era of avionics they are making, which would align with some of the already announced aircraft features like MTADS, then there is a significant time gap between that airframe and the weapon.  The Block 2 AH-64D's that existed in the past 10 years are quite different in avionics/capability compared to the Block 2 Apaches in the latter part of the 2000's decade.  There was already a pretty thorough debate about this weapon system as well, twice, and also subsequently locked, which you can read about here, but it's been listed as "not planned".


Edited by Raptor9
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Afterburners are for wussies...hang around the battlefield and dodge tracers like a man.

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TBH, I don't care much about APKWS. Technically speaking, it's compatible with everything that can launch rockets, even the F-5E. Practically, by the time it was introduced most airframes we have in DCS were on their way out or upgraded to a newer block. Besides good old whack-a-terrorist, it's hard to think up a scenario that could be realized in the post-2010 timeframe with the assets we have.

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