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DCS Mi-24P feels very twitchy


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Don't know if it's just me, but I find the Mi-24 extremely twitchy to fly, and very unstable in pitch, esp. when compared with the Ka-50 which I find very stable and smooth by comparison.

 

Flying the Hind it feels like I'm constantly on a knives edge, and I'm having a very hard time being precise and smooth with it. Now I'm no rotorhead, so I don't know if this is realistic or not, it was merely the first & biggest thing that has struck me after a few hours of getting to know the thing.

 

Is it supposed to be this nervous in the air?

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Couple of questions. Are you using any curve on the control axis? I find that adding some makes all planes/helos more forgiving. Also, make sure that the autopilot channels for pitch and roll are enabled, otherwise it is much harder to fly.

 

Besides that, it is a bit more twitchy than the Mi-8, but nothing too bad in my opinion.

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Yes I do use a curve of 15 for both pitch, roll and rudder, but it still feels very unstable and imprecise to control IMO.  Definitely the most nervous heli I've flown in DCS so far.

 

 

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At speed 150kph and up it feels very stable to me, however low speed and hover the pitch seems very sensitive and it tends to become more "rocking horse" like. It has a lot of room to grow and perhaps there will be more changes down the line.

 

I dumped the curves for my Warthog a long time ago because of the lack of response that I felt. Over time with practice the smoothness is something you learn with each flight model.

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2 hours ago, Hummingbird said:

Don't know if it's just me, but I find the Mi-24 extremely twitchy to fly, and very unstable in pitch, esp. when compared with the Ka-50 which I find very stable and smooth by comparison.

 

Flying the Hind it feels like I'm constantly on a knives edge, and I'm having a very hard time being precise and smooth with it. Now I'm no rotorhead, so I don't know if this is realistic or not, it was merely the first & biggest thing that has struck me after a few hours of getting to know the thing.

 

Is it supposed to be this nervous in the air?

The KA50 has a completely different system for flight due to 2 counter rotating rotors and no tail rotor and the autopilot system.

Most helicopters fly differently to the KA50 (or more accurately the KA50 flies differently to all other helicopters in DCS).

 

Always keep movements small to prevent over correction.

Use trim once stable - use pitch and roll SAS to help stability.

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4 hours ago, yngvef said:

 Also, make sure that the autopilot channels for pitch and roll are enabled, otherwise it is much harder to fly.

 

you haven't answered that. Have you activated the pitch and roll channel for the SAS/AP?

That should solve your problem. Also you should use the trimmer. That'll probably helps too.

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Posted (edited)

To me it feels like the most stable helo, except when it's slow, or I'm trying to hover in it. However, at around 150ish km/h, it starts oscillating in pitch for no apparent reason. Don't know if it's a kink to iron out in the flight model, or a characteristic of the helicopter.

 

Edit: It goes away when you accelerate or decelarate past that specific speed band though. I've heard this happening multiple people too.


Edited by WinterH

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Make sure your AP Channels are on. Especially the YAW channel. I don't know why but flying without the yaw channel engaged will change how the helicopter behaves in pitch and make it twitchy. Which is kind of strange. 

 

To me this is currently the most difficult helicopter to fly, although it is much easier to land compared to the Mi8. It is also a bit more twitchy in forward flight during course changes, which is again kind of weird, I would expect it to be more stable than the HIP. I know that PilotMi8 was a HIP pilot, which is why I still believe that the Mi8 has the most accurate flight model of all the choppers in the game. I think that there is something off with how the AP channels work and interact with each other and the helicopter trim in the Hind. But I can't base it off anything but a subjective opinion, and the comparison I keep making with the Mi8. It does make some sense as this is a completely different airframe, but on the other hand I still think that there is something strange going on with the FM, or rather the AP channels\trim. 

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My first half an hour with it was a nightmare and I was convinced it was the most unbalanced, jittery thing ever designed. And yet... a bit more practice, understanding how it works and not trying to fly it like the Ka-50 - now I think it's very stable indeed.

 

With the Huey or Mi-8 I was never able to accurately use the guns or rockets reliably, yet with the Hind I can nail targets with rockets at 250kph in a turn. It is interesting how everyone is having different experiences.

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3 minutes ago, LooseSeal said:

It is interesting how everyone is having different experiences.

I think, it's a matter of perception and depend on where you're coming from.

 

If you're only used to the KA-50 you'll probably perceive it a lot different than when you come from the Hip.

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vor einer Stunde schrieb WinterH:

However, at around 150ish km/h, it starts oscillating in pitch for no apparent reason. Don't know if it's a kink to iron out in the flight model, or a characteristic of the helicopter.

 

Edit: It goes away when you accelerate or decelarate past that specific speed band though. I've heard this happening multiple people too.

 

This is actually the (bugged???) pitch AP channel. Turn it off and this behavior disappears.

I fly always with all AP channels turned off because at least for me, it feels that they get in the way more often than they actually help. I have no problems in keeping her steady and in a solid hover without the AP channels, so I don't see a real advantage in most of the AP channels except for keeping a specific heading in level flight. YMMV

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For me yaw channel is usually a no-go, but I leave the other two on, sometimes use altitude hold too. I should experiment more with them on-off really.

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MiG-21Bis, Fw-190D, Bf-109K, P-51D, F-86F, Ka-50, UH-1H, Mi-8MTV2, Hawk T1A, C-101, FC3, A-10C, CA, Mirage 2000C, Gazelle, L-39, MiG-15Bis, F-5E, AJS 37 Viggen, Yak-52, Christen Eagle II, MiG-19, I-16, JF-17, F-14, F/A-18C, Fw-190A8, AV-8B/NA, Spitifre IX

 

Mods:

A-4E, MB-339, Edge 540

 

Utility modules:

Combined Arms, NS 430 GPS

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1 hour ago, WinterH said:

For me yaw channel is usually a no-go, but I leave the other two on, sometimes use altitude hold too. I should experiment more with them on-off really.

The yaw channel is more for long journeys anyway?

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Posted (edited)

 

13 minutes ago, Hobel said:

The yaw channel is more for long journeys anyway?

 

Actually no. There should be nothing preventing you from using the Yaw channel basically for 99% of the flight time. The exception being during taxi maneuvers. The way that YAW AP currently works is that it will keep the last set heading for any given torque. Whenever you depress the pedals the YAW channel goes to standby, and switches back on again when pedals are returned to neutral. The upside of this is that it makes taking off and landing in the Hind, very easy. The way it should work, and does to a large extent is that when you release the pedals the helicopter will YAW into that particular heading. BUT....

 

It appears to be very coarse at the moment. The heading is not set exactly and needs to be corrected unless you are very smooth and coordinated with your pedal and cyclic inputs. Sometimes the helicopter just doesn't want to go where you point it to, and I believe that this is both due to pilot error, and due to some weirdness going on with the AP channels. The helicopter is also prone to weathervaning even in low wind, which is normal. I tried using the chopper with the yaw channel off, and the helicopter became even more twitchy than usual. I would recommend that people either play with ALL AP channels off, or ALL AP channels on. (Other than the altitude hold AP, which is kind of weird and makes me crash when I have it on) 


Edited by Lurker

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in real life pilots are banned from flying with the pitch and role SAS off in the mi-8. not sure if its the same in the mi-24. we will see when we get the manual.

learning not to fight with the SAS was one of the major problems I had with moving from the huey to the mi-8. and hovering.

my muscle memory insisted on putting in stick movements that were not needed.

the pitch oscillations in the mi-24 are much reduced if you use enough back stick to account for the extreme forward rake of the rotor disk.

you need a lot of back stick just to get the disk level.

so using more back stick kind of fixed the pitch oscillations. 

Rather than fighting the SAS here the SAS has less to do.

 

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Cyclic x/y axes curves +10. (No stick extension)
Collective no curve

Rudder -15 curve

 

It feels good here, seems realistic. Sensitive but not too sensitive for a big bus.

 

Also note that the shark has full on autopilot whereas the hind autopilot channels have less control

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I am curious about the IRL rules/procedures for the Mi-24 autopilot. I've had my best results with all 4 channels switched off for combat and maneuvering, turn them on selectively for hover, landing, takeoff, cruise, etc., as needed, although I'm far from having it all figured out, of course. 15-20% curves on all axes, but I may reduce those (they were higher) as my skills improve.

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If you're coming from the Ka-50, then all other helos will probably feel twitchy/unstable

 

I found the Hind quite weird when it came to hovering, compared to all the other helos I flew both in DCS and in XPlane, but it took 2-3 flights to adjust. It all comes down to practice.

I prefer no curves on the stick, but that's up to you.

 

The Black Shark generally compensates for almost everything, and while the Hind has the AP channels, it's not nearly as extreme as it is in the Kamov.

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It felt a bit twitchy for me at low speeds at first, too.  I have a 7cm extension and I tried using curves and reducing the y saturation on pitch and roll and still couldn't find a setting I was happy with. I ended up going back to full linear on all axis and just practiced nothing but hovering slowly around taxiways and runways without any of the AP channels enabled and after a while it just seemed to click with me and now it almost feels like I can control it with my mind lol. 

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On 7/2/2021 at 10:06 AM, Lurker said:

 

To me this is currently the most difficult helicopter to fly, although it is much easier to land compared to the Mi8. It is also a bit more twitchy in forward flight during course changes, which is again kind of weird, I would expect it to be more stable than the HIP. I know that PilotMi8 was a HIP pilot, which is why I still believe that the Mi8 has the most accurate flight model of all the choppers in the game. I think that there is something off with how the AP channels work and interact with each other and the helicopter trim in the Hind. But I can't base it off anything but a subjective opinion, and the comparison I keep making with the Mi8. It does make some sense as this is a completely different airframe, but on the other hand I still think that there is something strange going on with the FM, or rather the AP channels\trim. 

Wow! Funny 🙂

I have the complete opposite impression : I find the Hip easier to land, mainly due to the largest wheel placement, making it more stable on ground. OTOH the Hind is to me the most stable chopper in forward flight BY FAR compared to all others. It's plane-like stable, allowing us to make very close formation flying, for example.

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Posted (edited)

It's more sensitive than-but still feels a lot like- the Mi 8. I'm sure there's some issues that need to be worked out of the control but for the most part little about the Hind's stick and rudder feels off or inexplicable. It's a big-powerful attack chopper, it's not optimized for being a "helicopter" in the conventional sense of like a simple transport chopper, it's got a lot of power (ergo torque) and is designed as a weapons platform in a time when helicopters were in many ways still brand new and a bit of novelty in aviation. 

 

I also agree that the Hind is uniquely stable in cruise flight, and lends itself to instability more at low speed or in a hover. Based on what i've read that doesn't seem inconsistent. 


Edited by DocHawkeye
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Posted (edited)

What bothers me the most is the sensitivity of the controls and lack of smoothness & precision during maneuvers, esp. at low speed. 

 

My expectations were based on watching real life demos, such as this one:

 

In this demo, and others, control appears so smooth and precise, and the aircraft appears incredibly stable. i

 

I can't hope to repeat those maneuvers in the DCS Mi-24, it's just too twittchy & nervous. esp. during hovering and at low forward speed.


Edited by Hummingbird
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Great demo vid. This pilot knows his shiznitz.  

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Posted (edited)

I was able to pull the 360 degree yaw spin while keeping forward momentum. You really have to psy attention to what your collective and rpm govenor is doing to make precise manuvers

 

 


Edited by CrazyGman
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