Charly_Owl Posted June 30, 2021 Share Posted June 30, 2021 (edited) Hi everyone, Today's patch introduced a "fix" on the Fuel Delimiter Valve Indication. Now, when the Crossfeed (Fuel Delimiter/Separator) valve is set to OPEN (UP), the ISOLATING VALVE CLOSED annunciator illuminates... which seems kind of counter-intuitive, especially when compared to the Mi-8 which has a similar switch with similar functionality. Could @PilotMi8or anyone from Eagle Dynamics clarify why this logic change was made and explain what the light status logic and switch logic are? The logic currently implemented does not make sense to me (closed != open)... so maybe something got lost in translation. Maybe the light text is mistranslated? Edited June 30, 2021 by Charly_Owl 2 Chuck's DCS Tutorial Library Chuck's Guides on Mudspike Chuck's Youtube Channel Chuck's Patreon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sublime Posted June 30, 2021 Share Posted June 30, 2021 Besides this and a post I saw you mention wanting reading material on the hind I'm pumped and glad you're on the scene. Thanks so much for all those guides dude Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AvroLanc Posted July 1, 2021 Share Posted July 1, 2021 The inter tank valve light should be illuminated when the valve is open. The normal position of the switch should UP i.e open, with the light illuminated. I think the English translation on that light is wrong, it should say ‘Isolating valve open’. The valve is closed manually when a fuel leak in one of the lower fuel cells is suspected. ....at least that’s what I can gather from one reference I have. How does it work now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charly_Owl Posted July 1, 2021 Author Share Posted July 1, 2021 I think it may be a translation error of the status light, but we'd need input from ED to confirm. Chuck's DCS Tutorial Library Chuck's Guides on Mudspike Chuck's Youtube Channel Chuck's Patreon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlphaOneSix Posted July 1, 2021 Share Posted July 1, 2021 Look at the light in the Russian cockpit. If it's "3akp" that means closed. Open is "otkp". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charly_Owl Posted July 1, 2021 Author Share Posted July 1, 2021 Just now, AlphaOneSix said: Look at the light in the Russian cockpit. If it's "3akp" that means closed. Open is "otkp". Chuck's DCS Tutorial Library Chuck's Guides on Mudspike Chuck's Youtube Channel Chuck's Patreon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XPACT Posted July 1, 2021 Share Posted July 1, 2021 (edited) Exactly, in the up position which is normal operating position cross feed valve between tank 4 and 5 is CLOSED, light indicates that. In the down position which should be used if one of the pumps in tank 4 or 5 fails cross feed valve is OPEN light goes out and tanks start sharing fuel. Here is the fuel system schematics Cross feed valve that switch operates is marked with red number 8 Edited July 1, 2021 by XPACT 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gulredrel Posted July 1, 2021 Share Posted July 1, 2021 Still strange, even if misslabled in English. For normal operation switch should be on, so valve is closed, but you will see an amber warning light!? So we will have to wait for EDs input and clarification. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renko Posted July 1, 2021 Share Posted July 1, 2021 Weird for sure, it may seem that the translation is bad. For the logic of using amber light, which is caution, i'm puzzle as you are. Here is a video from a Hind switching those very switches. 6:19 mark 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XPACT Posted July 1, 2021 Share Posted July 1, 2021 (edited) 17 minutes ago, Renko said: Here is a video from a Hind switching those very switches. 6:19 mark Great find, in the video label actually says OPEN when in the up position instead of what we have in the game and you can see that at first tank 5 pump is not running only 1, 2 and 4 then when he opens the valve few seconds later tank 5 pump starts working this is also happening in the game (reversed tho, switch in the down position) so it indeed seems that switch is the other way around IRL and in the game logic is reversed now So from the video it shows that in the game they both mislabeled it and used that label for working logic which is incorrect. Edited July 1, 2021 by XPACT 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ED Translators P61 Posted July 1, 2021 ED Translators Share Posted July 1, 2021 (edited) This screenshot is when all lights are checked. All annunciating lights are on independently of their switches positions. And this is Mi-24P. So at least label on light is correct. Edited July 1, 2021 by P61 AKA LazzySeal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlphaOneSix Posted July 1, 2021 Share Posted July 1, 2021 No, the label on the light in the video says OPEN (открыт), the label on the light in-game says CLOSED (закрыт). 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ED Translators P61 Posted July 1, 2021 ED Translators Share Posted July 1, 2021 8 minutes ago, AlphaOneSix said: No, the label on the light in the video says OPEN (открыт), the label on the light in-game says CLOSED (закрыт). Look at the picture I posted above. This picture is from Mi-24P cockpit, it says Закрыт. Video that is mentioned above is from Mi-24D Most likely label is correct but switch position needs to be changed AKA LazzySeal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charly_Owl Posted July 1, 2021 Author Share Posted July 1, 2021 (edited) 3 hours ago, P61 said: Most likely label is correct but switch position needs to be changed Does this mean the switch should be left to UP position during normal operation or DOWN? There are two ways to interpret the switch: Logic 1: UP position opens the isolation valve, DOWN position closes the isolation valve Logic 2: UP position turns ON the Fuel Delimiter and closes the isolation valve, DOWN position turns OFF the Fuel Delimiter and opens the isolation valve If the light indeed says ISOLATION VALVE CLOSED and is correct for a Mi-24P, then the current behavior modelled in DCS reflects Logic 2. The start-up procedure listed in DCS right now sets the switch to UP, constantly displaying the CLOSED light... which seems to be at odds with the flight manual instructions (which imply that the isolation valve should be open during normal operation). Edited July 1, 2021 by Charly_Owl Chuck's DCS Tutorial Library Chuck's Guides on Mudspike Chuck's Youtube Channel Chuck's Patreon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XPACT Posted July 1, 2021 Share Posted July 1, 2021 1 hour ago, Charly_Owl said: There are two ways to interpret the switch: Currently in the game it is what you marked as logic 2. Now I am not sure what is considered normal operation without manual. Usually any kind of cross valve is left closed except when you need it in some kind of emergency. But that said in this case (mi 24p fuel system design) I would use it in the up position (closed) in hostile environment and in the down position (open) if I am carrying external fuel or just traveling. If you carry external fuel and keep the valve closed you will starve tank 5 at some point and only tank 4 will still be resupplied from main reservoir tank, probably isn't good for the balance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ED Translators P61 Posted July 1, 2021 ED Translators Share Posted July 1, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, Charly_Owl said: Does this mean the switch should be left to UP position during normal operation or DOWN? There are two ways to interpret the switch: Logic 1: UP position opens the isolation valve, DOWN position closes the isolation valve Logic 2: UP position turns ON the Fuel Delimiter and closes the isolation valve, DOWN position turns OFF the Fuel Delimiter and opens the isolation valve If the light indeed says ISOLATION VALVE CLOSED and is correct for a Mi-24P, then the current behavior modelled in DCS reflects Logic 2. The start-up procedure listed in DCS right now sets the switch to UP, constantly displaying the CLOSED light... which seems to be at odds with the flight manual instructions (which imply that the isolation valve should be open during normal operation). For now dominant version is that UP position open connection between tank 4 and 5. Which means most likely if no additional input from SME changing that, this will be changed with patch. There is an idea why it is not like in D, probably because in P (and V) they have decided to go for one logic behind all annunciating lights, meaning having orange "OPEN" light is not fitting the logic that "orange" is warning. Therefore most likely it was changed for later models. PS Pilotmi8 says that leaving this switching in any position is not changing a lot at the moment as it is nuanced damage related logic that is followed IRL for it. Edited July 1, 2021 by P61 AKA LazzySeal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charly_Owl Posted July 1, 2021 Author Share Posted July 1, 2021 3 minutes ago, P61 said: PS Pilotmi8 says that leaving this switching in any position is not changing a lot at the moment as it is nuanced damage related logic that is followed IRL for it. Ok, so... will the logic be reverted to what it was before or will it remain as is? Asking for a guy... that may or may not be writing a guide for it. 3 1 Chuck's DCS Tutorial Library Chuck's Guides on Mudspike Chuck's Youtube Channel Chuck's Patreon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ED Team NineLine Posted July 1, 2021 ED Team Share Posted July 1, 2021 See your PM on Discord, this is fixed internally, and just waiting on an SME to confirm it now. Thanks! 2 2 Forum Rules • My YouTube • My Discord - NineLine#0440• **How to Report a Bug** Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
admiki Posted July 1, 2021 Share Posted July 1, 2021 Speaking from layman's perspective. If isolation valve is left open, tanks 4 and 5 will self balance all the time, so even if one pump dies, you still have balanced tanks. This should be normal operating mode. In case of fuel leak from one of the tanks, you close the valve, isolating good tank from the bad. this is abnormal mode, hence the amber warning light. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hiob Posted July 2, 2021 Share Posted July 2, 2021 13 hours ago, Charly_Owl said: Asking for a guy... that may or may not be writing a guide for it. If you see this guy, say him "thank you" from me and give him a firm handshake! "Muß ich denn jedes Mal, wenn ich sauge oder saugblase den Schlauchstecker in die Schlauchnut schieben?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Viking 1-1 Posted July 5, 2021 Share Posted July 5, 2021 So right now I have to put the switch up, like before the last update? Orange lights confuse me... Before you call everything a "bug": RTFM & try again! Thank you. :music_whistling: I9-9900k, 32 GB RAM, Geforce RTX 2080 TI, 128 GB M2 SSD, 1 TB SSD, Track IR, Warthog Hotas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ED Team m4ti140 Posted July 5, 2021 ED Team Share Posted July 5, 2021 On 7/1/2021 at 10:03 AM, Renko said: Weird for sure, it may seem that the translation is bad. For the logic of using amber light, which is caution, i'm puzzle as you are. Here is a video from a Hind switching those very switches. 6:19 mark That's an Mi-24D not P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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