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"Fixed" Fuel Delimiter Valve indication Logic Question


Charly_Owl

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Hi everyone,

 

Today's patch introduced a "fix" on the Fuel Delimiter Valve Indication. Now, when the Crossfeed (Fuel Delimiter/Separator) valve is set to OPEN (UP), the ISOLATING VALVE CLOSED annunciator illuminates... which seems kind of counter-intuitive, especially when compared to the Mi-8 which has a similar switch with similar functionality. Could @PilotMi8or anyone from Eagle Dynamics clarify why this logic change was made and explain what the light status logic and switch logic are? The logic currently implemented does not make sense to me (closed != open)... so maybe something got lost in translation.

 

Maybe the light text is mistranslated?

 

vq8idCq.jpg


Edited by Charly_Owl
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The inter tank valve light should be illuminated when the valve is open. The normal position of the switch should UP i.e open, with the light illuminated. I think the English translation on that light is wrong, it should say ‘Isolating valve open’. 
 

The valve is closed manually when a fuel leak in one of the lower fuel cells is suspected.

 

....at least that’s what I can gather from one reference I have. How does it work now? 

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Exactly, in the up position which is normal operating position cross feed valve between tank 4 and 5 is CLOSED, light indicates that. In the down position which should be used if one of the pumps in tank 4 or 5 fails cross feed valve is OPEN light goes out and tanks start sharing fuel.

 

Here is the fuel system schematics

http://eechcentral.simhq.com/images/0/0e/Mi24v_fuel_2.png

 

Cross feed valve that switch operates is marked with red number 8


Edited by XPACT
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Weird for sure, it may seem that the translation is bad.
For the logic of using amber light, which is caution, i'm puzzle as you are.

Here is a video from a Hind switching those very switches. 6:19 mark
 

 

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17 minutes ago, Renko said:

Here is a video from a Hind switching those very switches. 6:19 mark

 

 

Great find, in the video label actually says OPEN when in the up position instead of what we have in the game and you can see that at first tank 5 pump is not running only 1, 2 and 4 then when he opens the valve few seconds later tank 5 pump starts working this is also happening in the game (reversed tho, switch in the down position) so it indeed seems that switch is the other way around IRL and in the game logic is reversed now

 

So from the video it shows that in the game they both mislabeled it and used that label for working logic which is incorrect.


Edited by XPACT
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This screenshot is when all lights are checked. All annunciating lights are on independently of their switches positions. And this is Mi-24P. So at least label on light is correct.

image.png


Edited by P61

AKA LazzySeal

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8 minutes ago, AlphaOneSix said:

No, the label on the light in the video says OPEN (открыт), the label on the light in-game says CLOSED (закрыт).

Look at the picture I posted above. This picture is from Mi-24P cockpit, it says Закрыт.

Video that is mentioned above is from Mi-24D

Most likely label is correct but switch position needs to be changed

AKA LazzySeal

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3 hours ago, P61 said:

Most likely label is correct but switch position needs to be changed

 

Does this mean the switch should be left to UP position during normal operation or DOWN?

 

There are two ways to interpret the switch:

  • Logic 1: UP position opens the isolation valve, DOWN position closes the isolation valve
  • Logic 2: UP position turns ON the Fuel Delimiter and closes the isolation valve, DOWN position turns OFF the Fuel Delimiter and opens the isolation valve

 

If the light indeed says ISOLATION VALVE CLOSED and is correct for a Mi-24P, then the current behavior modelled in DCS reflects Logic 2. The start-up procedure listed in DCS right now sets the switch to UP, constantly displaying the CLOSED light... which seems to be at odds with the flight manual instructions (which imply that the isolation valve should be open during normal operation).


Edited by Charly_Owl
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1 hour ago, Charly_Owl said:

There are two ways to interpret the switch:

 

Currently in the game it is what you marked as logic 2.

 

Now I am not sure what is considered normal operation without manual. Usually any kind of cross valve is left closed except when you need it in some kind of emergency. But that said in this case (mi 24p fuel system design) I would use it in the up position (closed) in hostile environment and in the down position (open) if I am carrying external fuel or just traveling. 

 

If you carry external fuel and keep the valve closed you will starve tank 5 at some point and only tank 4 will still be resupplied from main reservoir tank, probably isn't good for the balance. 

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1 hour ago, Charly_Owl said:

 

Does this mean the switch should be left to UP position during normal operation or DOWN?

 

There are two ways to interpret the switch:

  • Logic 1: UP position opens the isolation valve, DOWN position closes the isolation valve
  • Logic 2: UP position turns ON the Fuel Delimiter and closes the isolation valve, DOWN position turns OFF the Fuel Delimiter and opens the isolation valve

 

If the light indeed says ISOLATION VALVE CLOSED and is correct for a Mi-24P, then the current behavior modelled in DCS reflects Logic 2. The start-up procedure listed in DCS right now sets the switch to UP, constantly displaying the CLOSED light... which seems to be at odds with the flight manual instructions (which imply that the isolation valve should be open during normal operation).

 

For now dominant version is that UP position open connection between tank 4 and 5. Which means most likely if no additional input from SME changing that, this will be changed with patch.

There is an idea why it is not like in D, probably because in P (and V) they have decided to go for one logic behind all annunciating lights, meaning having orange "OPEN" light is not fitting the logic that "orange" is warning. Therefore most likely it was changed for later models.

PS Pilotmi8 says that leaving this switching in any position is not changing a lot at the moment as it is nuanced damage related logic that is followed IRL for it.


Edited by P61

AKA LazzySeal

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3 minutes ago, P61 said:

PS Pilotmi8 says that leaving this switching in any position is not changing a lot at the moment as it is nuanced damage related logic that is followed IRL for it.

 

Ok, so... will the logic be reverted to what it was before or will it remain as is?

 

Asking for a guy... that may or may not be writing a guide for it.

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Speaking from layman's perspective. If isolation valve is left open, tanks 4 and 5 will self balance all the time, so even if one pump dies, you still have balanced tanks. This should be normal operating mode. In case of fuel leak from one of the tanks, you close the valve, isolating good tank from the bad. this is abnormal mode, hence the amber warning light.

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13 hours ago, Charly_Owl said:

 

 

Asking for a guy... that may or may not be writing a guide for it.

If you see this guy, say him "thank you" from me and give him a firm handshake! 😄

"Muß ich denn jedes Mal, wenn ich sauge oder saugblase den Schlauchstecker in die Schlauchnut schieben?"

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So right now I have to put the switch up, like before the last update?

 

Orange lights confuse me... 😅

Before you call everything a "bug": RTFM & try again! Thank you. :music_whistling:

 

I9-9900k, 32 GB RAM, Geforce RTX 2080 TI, 128 GB M2 SSD, 1 TB SSD, Track IR, Warthog Hotas

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On 7/1/2021 at 10:03 AM, Renko said:

Weird for sure, it may seem that the translation is bad.
For the logic of using amber light, which is caution, i'm puzzle as you are.

Here is a video from a Hind switching those very switches. 6:19 mark
 

 

That's an Mi-24D not P

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