Dudes about Vr

[A2597]

I used mouse, no issues. 

Then I bound left and right click to a HOTAS switch. Look and press! Worked really well for a lot of functions.

 

Then I got pointCTRL, and.....never fly without it. Soooo nice! 

[VampireNZ]

I use Kensington Trackball stuck next to my throttle - works perfectly in VR, and you can map some generic inputs to the extra 2 buttons on it (and combinations) - so I have ESC and F1 mapped, along with combined-press of top two for spacebar.

 

Also it becomes very natural to reach out and use button boxes positioned in front of you, along with Cougar MFD's and I also have a full-size ICP mounted in front of me for F-16 - no problems locating the buttons with some prompts stuck to a few buttons etc.

[Willie Nelson]

On 6/30/2021 at 4:29 PM, speed-of-heat said:

of all the things that discourage you from using VR this should be low on the list.. its actually surprisingly natural and easy to use a mouse (though track ball is preferable as it moves less) the HOTAS button mechanism works surprisingly well ... but ultimately it's your shout...  

 

I completely agree about the simple mouse, give it a go first and then see if you want to try something else but this shouldn’t be the showstopper. 

[pixie]

On 7/1/2021 at 7:12 AM, Lt_Jaeger said:

One thing for sure....if you ever try VR in a flight sim, there is no going back, except for maybe a military grade full motion sim

Yes, you have to think very very carefully before trying VR.

I was perfectly happy with my Hotas and track IR combo. 

But that was before.

I have tried VR, and this is pure heroin for simers.

If your body can stand it, and once you're beyond motion sickness. You will be craving.

You will most likely hunt a new GPU and happily get scalped. 

You will try to justify your impulse buy to your friends :  "Man, those MFD were so hard to read".

And most probably fail.

You will also look for the perfect HOTAS combo.

Try to justify it.

Fail.

Buy it anyway.

[Lt_Jaeger]

3 minutes ago, pixie said:

Yes, you have to think very very carefully before trying VR.

I was perfectly happy with my Hotas and track IR combo. 

But that was before.

I have tried VR, and this is pure heroin for simers.

.... 

Buy it anyway

I feel you. I did make the mistake to write down my spendings on DCS.... man 

 

Good thing is, I was able to build a second VR PC for my valve index just from the parts I removed for upgrades on my G2 main DCS PC. 

 

A slow poke amd 3900x with an 2080ti is not shabby at all for room scale VR, which my kids love. Could tell my wife that the money was well spend and the "leftover" were put to good use. 

 

I doubt that she believed me, judging by the looks I got. 

 

 

[dburne]

12 minutes ago, pixie said:

Yes, you have to think very very carefully before trying VR.

I was perfectly happy with my Hotas and track IR combo. 

But that was before.

I have tried VR, and this is pure heroin for simers.

If your body can stand it, and once you're beyond motion sickness. You will be craving.

You will most likely hunt a new GPU and happily get scalped. 

You will try to justify your impulse buy to your friends :  "Man, those MFD were so hard to read".

And most probably fail.

You will also look for the perfect HOTAS combo.

Try to justify it.

Fail.

Buy it anyway.

 

Yep - described my experience to a tee.

Used to be - I did not have to have the top tier GPU. Used to be I did not have to have the elaborate hardware, was happy with my TM gear. Used to be I did not have to upgrade my PC that often.

My how that has all changed now.

Oh well at least now I do not have to have the latest and greatest monitors.

[Hiob]

On 7/4/2021 at 2:00 PM, pixie said:

If your body can stand it, and once you're beyond motion sickness. You will be craving.

 

Can you elaborate this? I tried VR at a friends and it was incredible (hovering in a helo - a lot easier in VR) but It gave me nausea pretty quickly.

And once the motion sickness kicked in, it stayed. I'm starting to feel dizzy again by even thinking about it.

Is this a matter of adaption? Will it get better? Because for now - even though the experience was a blast (the size and dimensions of the cockpits are a incredible difference)...

I'll probably stay away from it.

 

Edit: Are there coping techniques for motion sickness? Any tricks to get around it?

Edited July 6, 2021 by Hiob

[Baldrick33]

9 minutes ago, Hiob said:

Edit: Are there coping techniques for motion sickness? Any tricks to get around it?

 

The key thing is to try for short periods, the moment you feel nauseous then stop as you typically can't get through it, things just get worse.

 

My first go I believed VR wasn't for me, I felt really bad which lasted for over a day. I tried again a couple of days later just for ten minutes or so and stopped. I gradually increased this to 20, 30 minutes and in a week or so I had got my VR legs. That said I still can't really manage games where you walk or run without using transportation locomotion. Seated games like flying and driving are perfect for me but it took a little while for my brain to adapt to movement I could see compared to what I could sense.

[Hiob]

Thank you - that gives me hope.

Still hesitating to pull the trigger though.

 

I also tried Hald-Life Alyx - and as you said, the teleport locomotion didn't give me nausea. But the main reason for getting a VR set would be of course DCS.

4 minutes ago, Baldrick33 said:

 I gradually increased this to 20, 30 minutes and in a week or so I had got my VR legs.

Is there an aircraft you would recommend for a VR-beginner to get used to VR?

In the short time I was able to test it I found the "lower fidelity" 3D-Models easier on the eyes (e.g. Huey over Hind), but that may be a fallacy.

[Qiou87]

10 minutes ago, Hiob said:

Thank you - that gives me hope.

Still hesitating to pull the trigger though.

 

I also tried Hald-Life Alyx - and as you said, the teleport locomotion didn't give me nausea. But the main reason for getting a VR set would be of course DCS.

IMHO helicopters and low-level flight are the worst at first. Try simple flying, using a jet or prop plane, get high in the clouds, focus on the instruments, turn your head around... as soon as you feel a bit of nausea, stop. Try again the next day, you will be able to handle a little longer, and so on.

 

It took me a week to go from 20min to 2h. Everybody is different, some actually never really get 100% fine for 2-3h of flying, some are fine almost right away. Keep helicopters and low-level flying for the second week.

 

VR makes a few things, like helicopter flying or landing very very easy. Even a CASE1 on the carrier is not hard with VR (a good solid pass is hard, but landing and catching a wire without bolter is not hard). Like others have said, once you get through the initial motion sickness period (which depends on each individual), I don't think there is any going back. It is just such a game-changer for flight sim... But yes, it adds up quickly. I upgraded GPU 1x per year since getting VR, before then it was every 3 years. I used to be happy with a 300€ GPU, now I have a 720€ GPU. It does take from your wallet, but it is just so amazing... I used to tell my wife "I'll play on the computer". Now I tell her "I'm flying my plane/helicopter". This is really the feeling I get.

Edited July 6, 2021 by Qiou87

[Baldrick33]

9 minutes ago, Hiob said:

I also tried Hald-Life Alyx - and as you said, the teleport locomotion didn't give me nausea. But the main reason for getting a VR set would be of course DCS.

Is there an aircraft you would recommend for a VR-beginner to get used to VR?

In the short time I was able to test it I found the "lower fidelity" 3D-Models easier on the eyes (e.g. Huey over Hind), but that may be a fallacy.

I would say if you can manage Half Life:Alyx you should be fine with DCS. I cut my teeth in VR with race sims and never had an issue with DCS. Maybe a fixed wing aircraft might be better to start though.

[Hiob]

Thank you guys!

My rig is capable of running VR and I'm able to borrow an Index for two weeks.

I will try your tips and hope, I get over it in the time.

 

One thing I will be missing though is the sharpness of a 4K-Image! But I guess sacrifices have to be made...

[dburne]

Took me about 1-2 weeks to get acclimated to flying in VR.

 

[Rocho]

On 6/30/2021 at 10:27 PM, Fri13 said:

 

 

I have used touch controllers since ED implemented the support for their finger functions (at begin you had only gloves moving around). I used to use a mouse, HMD center point with mouse clicks on joystick, a trackball, a touchpad and some others. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I am also using touch controller and, to me, it is much more intuitive and easy to use than mouse.

[A2597]

Re: vr sickness.

Key is to stop as soon as you feel the first twinge. DO NOT PUSH THROUGH IT!

The first time I tried to push through and ohhh man I felt terrible for over a day. Then saw to stop at first signs...and that worked much better.

 

After around a week, I was through it, doing short flights and hopping off when I felt it. Now I can fly as long as I want however I want with no issues. (Acrobatics included).

[Hiob]

7 minutes ago, A2597 said:

Re: vr sickness.

Key is to stop as soon as you feel the first twinge. DO NOT PUSH THROUGH IT!

The first time I tried to push through and ohhh man I felt terrible for over a day. Then saw to stop at first signs...and that worked much better.

 

After around a week, I was through it, doing short flights and hopping off when I felt it. Now I can fly as long as I want however I want with no issues. (Acrobatics included).

Thanky again, that gives me hope.

Since I only had a few hours to test, I forced myself to bear it until I felt very bad. Was a mistake probably

Still feeling it.

I will pause a few days and than try as some of you suggested.

[Ala12Rv-Tundra]

17 minutes ago, Hiob said:

Thanky again, that gives me hope.

Since I only had a few hours to test, I forced myself to bear it until I felt very bad. Was a mistake probably

Still feeling it.

I will pause a few days and than try as some of you suggested.

if you are feeling uneasy at flying DCS. Try very short flights, such as 5-10 mins.
Set a mission, with hot aircraft. Jump in, taxi to runway. Take off, fly heading runway heading for AGES. Just climb.Once at cruise altitude over the cloud deck, turn and roll.
Important, move your actual body, drop your shoulders accordingly for turns, tilt your head. Those small gestures help fooling your inner ear.
Fly a long shallow direct approach to runway. Forget about CASE patterns or agressive fighter overhead patterns.

Also, are you using glasses?
The constant lack of focus may accelerate the nausea.

[Habu_69]

I will offer a different view. I have owned several VR headsets from Occulus 1 to HP G2 to HTC Vive Pro2. Yes, the VR immersion factor is, indeed, an astonishing experience; however, head-tracking and monitor do provide vastly superior graphics and FPS, which make a world of difference in multi-player flying and especially in simulated combat. So much easier to identify ground objects and distant aircraft with a good monitor. IMO VR technology reasonably available to us simmer hobbyists is not quite there yet.

[Baldrick33]

I find it the same in sim racing, to be ultra competitive I would still recommend triple screens but for a sense of being in a car VR wins hands down. I have no sense of flying an aircraft with monitors now, I have tried a number of times. 

[Lt_Jaeger]

Yes, PvP in VR would be challenging, too say the least, but since I don't do that, or not on a somewhat competitive level, I don't care. But one thing for sure..... For flight Sims I never go back. It's VR or it doesn't happen. 

 

Flightsim and VR - a childhood dream comes true. 

[VR Flight Guy in PJ Pants]

It takes time and effort to tune your system so that the frame rate is good and smooth. Only this you are less likely to suffer from motion sickness. And I think this may be the biggest hurdle to flying in VR.

 

If you fly helo a lot, I am told that landing would be much easier in VR. I am not a heavy helo flyer so I cannot say for sure.

[dburne]

24 minutes ago, Lt_Jaeger said:

Yes, PvP in VR would be challenging, too say the least, but since I don't do that, or not on a somewhat competitive level, I don't care. But one thing for sure..... For flight Sims I never go back. It's VR or it doesn't happen. 

 

Flightsim and VR - a childhood dream comes true. 

 

As a single player only guy I am with you there.

Got my first VR HMD in Jan 2017, have not gamed on monitor since.

[Hiob]

1 hour ago, Habu_69 said:

I will offer a different view. I have owned several VR headsets from Occulus 1 to HP G2 to HTC Vive Pro2. Yes, the VR immersion factor is, indeed, an astonishing experience; however, head-tracking and monitor do provide vastly superior graphics and FPS, which make a world of difference in multi-player flying and especially in simulated combat. So much easier to identify ground objects and distant aircraft with a good monitor. IMO VR technology reasonably available to us simmer hobbyists is not quite there yet.

 

I am already sure, that I won't use VR exclusively. My Rig is certainly beefy enough for VR but I'm used to 4K 48" 120 Hz oled panel which runs DCS between 60-120 Hz in very high settings - and nothing beats that visual fidelity.

 

True, the feeling for the "real" cockpit dimensions in VR are a very special experience, hovering a helicopter is a blast compared to 2D and I DO understand the strong benefits for sim-flyers...

But I also see the obvious short-comings, which are (aside the motion sickness, which I hope to overcome) mainly the sharpness and overall fidelity of a 2D Image.

 

I'm curious how other modules feels like. By now I only tested the Huey, the Hind, the Viper and the F-14. 

While the perception of cockpit dimensions and overall size of the aircraft were especially impressive in the fighters I found the shimmering and blurriness of the cockpit dials hard to stand in the Hind. That may of course be due to sub optimal settings.

 

We will see. I'm definetly going to try it all out! 

Edited July 6, 2021 by Hiob

[Tom Kazansky]

9 minutes ago, Hiob said:

 

I am already sure, that I won't use VR exclusively. My Rig is certainly beefy enough for VR but I'm used to 4K 48" 120 Hz oled panel which runs DCS between 60-120 Hz in very high settings - and nothing beats that visual fidelity.

 

thought the same with 4K on my 42.5"

 

and now... have never played 2D anymore since G2 came in Dec 2020.

crazy thing is: I see even more details in VR than on the monitor. (ok, not in the distance, but in the cockpit and on the parts of the aircraft outside of it.)

so I joined the will-never-go-back-club.

Edited July 6, 2021 by Tom Kazansky

[dburne]

2 hours ago, Hiob said:

 

I am already sure, that I won't use VR exclusively. My Rig is certainly beefy enough for VR but I'm used to 4K 48" 120 Hz oled panel which runs DCS between 60-120 Hz in very high settings - and nothing beats that visual fidelity.

 

True, the feeling for the "real" cockpit dimensions in VR are a very special experience, hovering a helicopter is a blast compared to 2D and I DO understand the strong benefits for sim-flyers...

But I also see the obvious short-comings, which are (aside the motion sickness, which I hope to overcome) mainly the sharpness and overall fidelity of a 2D Image.

 

I'm curious how other modules feels like. By now I only tested the Huey, the Hind, the Viper and the F-14. 

While the perception of cockpit dimensions and overall size of the aircraft were especially impressive in the fighters I found the shimmering and blurriness of the cockpit dials hard to stand in the Hind. That may of course be due to sub optimal settings.

 

We will see. I'm definetly going to try it all out! 

 

 

I am loving the Hornet in VR. Currently only doing single player campaign flying with it.

Hornet looks great, however even with a Vive Pro 2 instruments can be a little fuzzy. It is almost like they are just too small in VR, if slightly larger would be clearer.