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Dudes about Vr


peirof
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Hi, 

 

I was user of Track Ir device, but seems its dead... 

 

And now I wonder if I can buy a new track ir... Or make the leap to VR.

 

But I have some doubts, the most important is the control of the avionica of the plane, with the trackir used a lot of the mouse to press different controls of the cabin, something that I find very difficult if you are wearing the vr glasses, since it makes it difficult and a lot to use the mouse ....

 

Unless you can virtually press the cockpit buttons... But that seems dicicil to me, how do you control the plane (cockpit button presses) with the VR glasses? 

 

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A few people use the Pointctrl pointing device, which is supposed to be very good, but there's a long waiting list.

 

I use a left handed trackball mouse on a custom mount next to my throttle. That way it never moves and I can easily locate it by feel while I'm in VR.

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You can also bind the mouse buttons to your HOTAS, allowing to left and right click from there.

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A cheap track ball will do the job nicely as well - stick it to the arm of your chair or HOTAS mount.

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Hi,

 

This discourages me a bit ...

 

the videos I had seen had piqued my interest ... but the issue of pressing the buttons with a mouse, which is difficult to see (because you are wearing your glasses) ....

At this moment, it seems that I prefer more, for a TrackIr (or similar) and one or two touch screens, which show part of the cockpit

 

Thanks to all

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of all the things that discourage you from using VR this should be low on the list.. its actually surprisingly natural and easy to use a mouse (though track ball is preferable as it moves less) the HOTAS button mechanism works surprisingly well ... but ultimately it's your shout...  

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 If you can use a mouse with TrackIR you should have no problems using it with VR. I've had no additional difficulty using aircraft controls this way. Obviously the more common controls you can bind to HOTAS the better but thats true out of VR.

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I dislike using a mouse to operate cockpit controls so I have bound a right and mouse click to a button box which is close to hand and easy to find in VR and just look at the control and press the button. I find this more immersive. I use rotaries which are clickable and then use the rotary for the mouse wheel. I also a rotary to move the mouse cursor vertically if needed to get at those hard to get places without straining my old neck (like oxygen switches right at the back of side panels)!

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I'm all in for PointCTRL. Started with the mouse and it felt natural after a while. After I got my PointCTRL (pointctrl.com) set I was still reaching for the mouse, but now I'm all grabbing for knobs and switches, even so I haven't sortet out the button presses yet. I seem to be a slow learner. Wish for real switches now, but for the time being I don't have the room, time and money to get me a F-14 simpit. 

 

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Lack of external vision and the shear number of switches and controls you need is a challenge in VR for sure. I've found extensive programming of the hotas, macros and Voice attack to be the only answer. With the X56 and it's mode switch allowing around 150 switch controls, plus 11 axis, I'm able to get the majority of what I need at my finger tips with a separation of functionality. Mode 1 is for TO/landing and Nav. Mode 2 is exclusively for the radios and Mode 3 for master arm on ie combat. For anything not programed into the hotas I have a head look cursor I can switch on and off as well as a left and right mouse button click so I can look at a switch with my head and click it with a couple of buttons configured on the stick. Voice attack takes care of the hard to reach switches such as O2 flow and to arm the ejection seat etc. With the addition of a few macros to handle cold startup/lights you should have everything you need. I still find myself reverting to the mouse occasionally, mainly to recenter the cursor, but it's a lot better than trying to see outside of the headset to find a keyboard button. While some functionality is common to most air frames one of the biggest draw back of all this is the number of hours it takes to set up as each module requires a custom config. While it's a pita to get right the immersion of actually sitting in a 3d cockpit as opposed to looking at a 2d screen, even with TIR, is well worth the effort.

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You have been using TrackIR for decades, don´t expect becoming a VR cockpit interaction master within the first 20 minutes 😉
However, you will develop muscle memory, even to press keyboard combos such as RCtrl + Pause for fps which I use all the time while flying. Or counting the F keys to reach F10 map.
F1, 2, 3 for views, ESC... all of them will be second nature to you soon.
What´s more, using free software like VoiceAttack, you can press a hotas button and speak out loud "Map", and a F10 keystroke will be activate.

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Mouse works fine in VR, using my left hand with it so I can keep my right on the joystick\cyclic is a bit tricky though 🙂

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Joy2Key has a neat function to centre the mouse which I have mapped to a button next to the buttons mapped for mouse buttons. As I said I also have a rotary mapped four mouse movement up and down. I never need the physical mouse to do anything.

 

it is a preference thing but I like voice attack solely for comms. It doesn’t feel quite right talking to a relatively old tech aircraft like a modern car, probably just me though!

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30 minutes ago, Baldrick33 said:

Joy2Key has a neat function to centre the mouse which I have mapped to a button next to the buttons mapped for mouse buttons. As I said I also have a rotary mapped four mouse movement up and down. I never need the physical mouse to do anything.

 

it is a preference thing but I like voice attack solely for comms. It doesn’t feel quite right talking to a relatively old tech aircraft like a modern car, probably just me though!

 

Same here, I use Voice Attack with Vaicom Pro for comms.

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Using a mouse in VR is very easy. I have a normal desk setup with an X-55 desktop hotas. Throttle is on the left, keyboard in the middle, stick on the right and mouse just to the right of that. If I take my hand off the stick and move my hand down to the right side, the mouse and pad are right there. Very easy to find and very easy to use blind. The keyboard is the problem, I basically only use that for gear and maybe flaps on some aircraft, but f and g are fairly easy to find given the bump on the f key.

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I use VAC for voice control  which I purchased years ago (£13. Now). Main calls I make on it are , esc, arm aircraft, awacs, f10, but mostly comms. A great innovation has been pointctrl. (£ 147 inc postage to Uk, yes waiting list but it is moving faster). 

You don’t have to set many key combos on your sticks because you press the controls in the a/c !!.  Either hand used.

Good luck

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I agree with others this is the least of the worries going to VR. I use a Kensington expert mouse next to my hotas. It never moves, so it is no different than say, knowing where the speedbrake switch is on the hotas without looking. Your hand just goes to it automatically.

 

I've been flying the F-16 and have a RealSimulator FSSB. All the switches have hidden directional functions, for example you can push the weapons release button up/down/right/left for additional functions. I've been meaning to try assigning those to get rid of the mouse by just looking and clicking with one of these hidden buttons on the hotas. I'm not sure how i'd do the scroll like uncaging the SAI though.

 

Just my opinion, but the biggest concerns going to VR are:

1.Finding a headset that gives the indivdual a comfortable experience without eye strain, etc.

2.Getting DCS to run smoothly enough, again the thershold is different from person to person.

 

Personally I find VR brings so much to the table, I will never go back to 2D. There are some that seem to prefer TrackIR and 2D however, so it's all personal preference.

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I am in what I expect is a very small minority that didn't get on with PointCTRL. I think it is an ingenious solution and well implemented , I just never felt as immersed as pressing a more physical switch. I have also got pretty adept at accurately looking at a switch, quickly locating the button box for a right or left click or to rotate the rotary button. It just feels more physical than pressing a micro switch in mid air. This is real preference stuff mind.

 

I also use a Logitech Quadrant for gear lever, flaps and canopy (RPM on warbirds). I don't want to be staring at the lever whilst flying and can easily locate these with a bit of muscle memory, just like operating a gear shifter in sim racing in VR.

 

Personally I have found the whole control aspect of DCS using VR quite fascinating and have tried many combinations of physical switches and clickable cockpit controls to improve immersion. If I spent as long flying I might be a bit better at it by now 🙂 All I know is I enjoy the experience of flying in VR with DCS immensely.

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Yup, once you do VR you won't/can't go back to trackir etc.

 

I have pointctrl coming, but have found mapping mouse buttons to my HOTAS works.

 

There is a visible cross in the middle of the VR "screen" that you center (put on) the buttons etc within the cockpit. So basically you look at a button (eg MFD button; Master Arm) and then click your mapped HOTAS button to click the VR button. It's not super awesome, but it becomes pretty intuitive after awhile.

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17 hours ago, peirof said:

Hi, 

 

I was user of Track Ir device, but seems its dead... 

 

And now I wonder if I can buy a new track ir... Or make the leap to VR.

 

Have you considered NoTrackIR or was it NoIRFaceTrack or something? You need a webcam and good lighting. It should work many cases excellent manner.

 

17 hours ago, peirof said:

But I have some doubts, the most important is the control of the avionica of the plane, with the trackir used a lot of the mouse to press different controls of the cabin, something that I find very difficult if you are wearing the vr glasses, since it makes it difficult and a lot to use the mouse ....

 

I have used touch controllers since ED implemented the support for their finger functions (at begin you had only gloves moving around). I used to use a mouse, HMD center point with mouse clicks on joystick, a trackball, a touchpad and some others. 

 

I have not used the PointCTRL that is praised here. But I am waiting now that ED improves their just added Leap Motion support so I can get away from grabbing those from lap (easier than mouse).

 

17 hours ago, peirof said:

Unless you can virtually press the cockpit buttons... But that seems dicicil to me, how do you control the plane (cockpit button presses) with the VR glasses? 

 

The virtual hands.

 

https://youtube.com/shorts/Y60Erjxczr0?feature=share

 

https://youtube.com/shorts/97Cr2AgjDP0?feature=share

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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First thank you all for your help, and comment that it seems that I opt more for using Track Ir (The Chinese Copy) and a touch screen of about 7".

 

I've seen that with a software called Helios, it's very configurable. I'll try this. VR glasses, attract me, but I see some doubtful points.

 

 

 Thank you for your help and advice

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