Will the circuit breakers ever be modeled?

[Barrett_g]

I’m interested in the “left wing inboard guns” and the “right wing inboard guns” circuit breakers, specifically.

 

I see the mouse cursor change, but I haven’t been able to manipulate them.

 

In a A2A engagement I’d want all 8 machine guns firing, of course…. But if I was in a low threat environment and I was strafing a convoy I’d like to pull the CB’s of half my guns to make my ammo last a little longer.

 

It would make for an interesting experiment, anyways!

[Gumbie]

Its just as easy not to hold the Trigger down when firing to save on rounds but I get the ideal sounds cool but just a ton more things to go wrong also.

 

[Zimmerdylan]

  I have been into flight sims for going on 20 years now. The one thing I know for sure is that no matter who makes it, who flies it, who belly aches about it, or how much you pay for it nothing is ever complete. EVER........It's the nature of the beast. Whether it's a free game or high priced scenery or planes. Nothing is ever completely the way that you want it or picture it to be. Welcome to reality. Welcome to software. Not much anyone can do about it. 20 years..........

[grafspee]

I may be wrong here, but does circuit breakers are one way, so you can't pop them out, you can only pop them in.

[LeCuvier]

The functionality for controlling these CB's to OFF is actually defined in "clickabledata.lua", but apparently the programmers did not make it available in the cockpit. You can create control bindings for "Pop commands" by adding these two lines to "default.lua":

{down = device_commands.Button_51, cockpit_device_id = devices.MAIN_SWITCH_BOX, value_down = 0.0, name = _('CB LH Inboard Guns OFF'), category = {_('Main Switch Box')}},
{down = device_commands.Button_55, cockpit_device_id = devices.MAIN_SWITCH_BOX, value_down = 0.0, name = _('CB RH Inboard Guns OFF'), category = {_('Main Switch Box')}},

These lines create new bindings "CB LH Inboard Guns OFF" and "CB RH Inboard Guns OFF" to be bound to a pair of pushbuttons.

You can push the CB's back in with the existing CB Reset bindings or with the mouse.

I'm not sure that it's worth the trouble; I was just curious to see if I could do it. 

[grafspee]

maybe some left overs from testing mode

[Barrett_g]

That’s awesome!  Looks like it’s all basically there… they just need to add a bit of code and make them clickable.

 

And yes, they should be able to be pulled out and pushed in.  Mechanics can make the plane “safe for maintenance” by pulling a CB and tagging it out while they work, and then reset it once they’re done and the plane is ready to fly.

 

I had heard accounts were Pilots told their Crew Chiefs to “wire a switch” or “re-wire” their guns so they could fire inboard and outboard guns separately.  IL-2 1946 even has the guns on 2 separate buttons which always annoyed me.  I never thought it sounded historically accurate, and the thought of crew chiefs rewiring the guns just sounded absurd.  But now that I see it was just a couple circuit breakers to manipulate, it all makes much more sense!

 

Also… “just as easy not to hold the trigger down” does not double your ammo count like manipulating the circuit breakers.

 

 

[grafspee]

I know that it was possible to pop them out, question is was it possible to do it in flight or only by mechanics ?

 

[Barrett_g]

1 hour ago, grafspee said:

I know that it was possible to pop them out, question is was it possible to do it in flight or only by mechanics ?

 

Rule of thumb for pilots is not to reset a CB in flight as it probably popped due to a fault.  You don’t want to keep resetting a CB and then have the wires catch fire.

 

In a tactical instance where you know there wasn’t a fault… and you’re simply activating/deactivating a desired system, it’s up to the pilot’s discretion.

[Barrett_g]

19 hours ago, LeCuvier said:

The functionality for controlling these CB's to OFF is actually defined in "clickabledata.lua", but apparently the programmers did not make it available in the cockpit. You can create control bindings for "Pop commands" by adding these two lines to "default.lua":

{down = device_commands.Button_51, cockpit_device_id = devices.MAIN_SWITCH_BOX, value_down = 0.0, name = _('CB LH Inboard Guns OFF'), category = {_('Main Switch Box')}},
{down = device_commands.Button_55, cockpit_device_id = devices.MAIN_SWITCH_BOX, value_down = 0.0, name = _('CB RH Inboard Guns OFF'), category = {_('Main Switch Box')}},

These lines create new bindings "CB LH Inboard Guns OFF" and "CB RH Inboard Guns OFF" to be bound to a pair of pushbuttons.

You can push the CB's back in with the existing CB Reset bindings or with the mouse.

I'm not sure that it's worth the trouble; I was just curious to see if I could do it. 

 

You sir, are a genius!  I was finally able to get back to my home computer and I tried out your lines (I've never edited a .lua file before) and it worked!  So awesome and really adds some flexibility to the airframe!!!  This should be added to an official update!

 

 

[grafspee]

How about in RL plane, do i need to push them again to pop them out or pull them with my nails ?? they extend very little above box surface. On german side there is a second push button to pop circuit breakers, here i cant see any.

[LeCuvier]

It's normal practice in electrical engineering to design circuits breakers so that they can be popped out by the user, for example because you suspect that there is a problem and you want to isolate the failure so it doesn't spread. Probably, in this case, you push them to make them pop out.

[LeCuvier]

@Barrett_g: Remember that, when you do an update or repair, your modified file will be overwritten with the stock file. You need to have a way to back up and restore your modification. I have modifications in all my modules and use OvGME to manage this quite easily.

You may be interested in the tutorial I've posted here: https://forums.eagle.ru/topic/270080-lua-editing-for-additional-key-binds-tutorial-no-discussion-here-please/?tab=comments#elControls_4646929_menu

PS: this thread also has collections of added lines for various aircraft, incl. the Jug.

Edited June 30, 2021 by LeCuvier

[grafspee]

41 minutes ago, LeCuvier said:

It's normal practice in electrical engineering to design circuits breakers so that they can be popped out by the user, for example because you suspect that there is a problem and you want to isolate the failure so it doesn't spread. Probably, in this case, you push them to make them pop out.

I get you, but i have notion that in P-47 case pilot can only reset this circuit breakers.

Electric system part in manual is extremely short, could not find anything about this circuit breakers beside in before start up check list.

Edited June 30, 2021 by grafspee

[LeCuvier]

There are many reasons for wanting to pop one or several CB's mostly by the ground crew of course. But if the ground crew could pop them as you say, how do you prevent the pilot from doing the same? And why would the airforce want to prevent the pilot from isolating a possibly damaged part of the electrical system?

[grafspee]

12 minutes ago, LeCuvier said:

There are many reasons for wanting to pop one or several CB's mostly by the ground crew of course. But if the ground crew could pop them as you say, how do you prevent the pilot from doing the same? And why would the airforce want to prevent the pilot from isolating a possibly damaged part of the electrical system?

For very same reason, to not pop out any circuit by mistake, no cover or guards for this buttons easily popable by mistake.

Any way no solid proof for any of that.

If they are indeed popable by pushing again, that we have missing feature then.

Edited June 30, 2021 by grafspee

[Barrett_g]

6 hours ago, grafspee said:

For very same reason, to not pop out any circuit by mistake, no cover or guards for this buttons easily popable by mistake.

Any way no solid proof for any of that.

If they are indeed popable by pushing again, that we have missing feature then.

 

It is a missing feature, hence why I started this topic.

 

Eagle Dynamics already did most of the work, they just haven’t completed it yet.

 

Luckily we have people like LeCuvier who know how to get the most out of the available code. (If you haven’t tried his code change to dampen the trim-tabs, it’s a must!  I can finally trim my plane to fly straight and level instead of proposing everywhere!)

 

You seem to want documentation to “prove” the pilots did this in WW2.  I doubt you’ll find any.  Kinda like the manifold pressure limits, pilots often did their own thing and hotrodded their planes.

 

If Republic didn’t want pilots using it, they would have put the panel out on the wing, or on the belly, under a panel.  Somewhere only accessible  to mechanics on the ground.

 

The fact that the circuit breaker panel was installed by their left knee, open and accessible, and the gun circuit breakers are easiest to reach and manipulate will have to be proof enough.

 

 

[grafspee]

Panel was installed inside cockpit from obvious reason , so that pilot could reset those breakers by pushing in case of pop out.

So, pilot could break circuits by pushing again right, or how so ??

 

[SMH]

11 hours ago, LeCuvier said:

It's normal practice in electrical engineering to design circuits breakers so that they can be popped out by the user, for example because you suspect that there is a problem and you want to isolate the failure so it doesn't spread. Probably, in this case, you push them to make them pop out.

So, ideally, the keybinds for all of them should be toggles that flip their current state. 

[Diesel_Thunder]

The button type breakers like in the Jug, are closed with it pushed in and open when popped out. Whether they can be pulled open manually mostly depends on the physical "button". If it is smooth and has curved edges, it is generally not deigned to be pulled. Ones that can generally have a raised edge on the side so that it is easier to grip and pull.  The Jug's panel appears to have the former type.

 

I've seen two schools of thought on resetting tripped breakers. The first is that if one trips during flight, it does not get reset until maintenance checks it out on after the plane lands. The second is that the breaker is allowed to be reset once after 5 minutes, and if it trips again it will stay open until maintenance looks at it. And the main idea is to prevent an in flight electrical fire.

[LeCuvier]

We can take it for granted that the CB's could be manually popped. Whether that was done by pulling or by pushing the button in none of us knows and speculating does not get us anywhere. That level of detail could even vary in real life and it doesn't really matter as far as I'm concerned.

If they can be manually popped then there is nothing (except orders) that would stop the pilot from doing that.

 

[Weegie]

I know this isn't really specific to the question, but I have all the breakers modelled on a Streamdeck profile, I used the same method as the Axis warbirds, where I have a button to set them and a separate button to disable them (including the guns and the prop pitch).

 

I haven't bothered to actually test them all yet with regards to function, for instance I haven't popped the guns breaker to prove that the inside or outside guns are disabled, as I don't fly a lot of combat.

 

If I disable one though the light on the enabled button goes out and resetting it enables it again and you also see the breaker position in the relevant position in the cockpit.

 

Last night I turned on the UV lights to full on a night flight and it popped a breaker, the lights then didn't work, I reset the breaker and the lights worked again, so it appears they are modelled.

 

Edited July 10, 2021 by Weegie
insert picture

[scoobie]

To continue this little off-topic... Can't see the contents Weegie linked, but - same here! Stream Deck is just perfect for bindings such that you don't want to squander "good" controls for them (joystic buttons etc.), but you still want to control them and (maybe) see their state. For, say, "second class" bindings. A few dirty screens from my Stream Deck - for Kurfurst, Anton and Dora. As ugly as my icons are - all these buttons work (in the pictures all are in the "off" state)

 

[LeCuvier]

what is Stream Deck?

[Weegie]

4 minutes ago, LeCuvier said:

what is Stream Deck?

 

It's a panel of pushbuttons that has LCD? displays on the buttons and is available in different sizes. It was primarly intended for musicians and streamers, but has many uses

 

@ctytler on here made a fantastic piece of software that compliments it and enables use of access to DCS bios (I think) the result is the actions on the streamdeck are updated on the buttons with what happens in the game. This thread tells you a bit about it

 

https://forums.eagle.ru/topic/230609-new-streamdeck-plugin/

 

My icons aren't as sophisticated as yours @scoobie they are very neat, like you I also made CBs for the Anton, Dora and Kurfust (the Anton's were a a bit of a marathon with a ridiculous number what was Kurt Tank thinking about?)

 

Wish they'd do the same for the stang.