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Incorrect Belt Composition for P51 and P47


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The rounds are added to DCS based on the type of round and such, and with the new DM, all this should be accounted for.

 

So far I haven't been told no on the M1 Incendiary and M1 Tracer so I am hopeful we can do accurate belts with those as well. Maybe an Early 43, Late 43 and 44. I love options. If I update the above plan, I will share it here.

 

Thanks guys.

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It's a great high level source but the only mention of a belt composition is in the Air to Ground Section. It mentions one of the belts @NineLinehas created:

Screenshot_20210805-073416_Drive.jpg

@Marduk879I've read that source quite a few times (and posted it on the IL2 forums about 30) and have managed to miss the point about the M8 not being recommend. Everything else that I've read and heard pertains to the AP,AP,I,I,T falling out of favour by 1944 and a full API, with an additional APIT if the squadron wanted to use tracers.

 

It appears to have been Fighter Group dependant earlier on. If you read the encounter reports of the P47 (http://www.wwiiaircraftperformance.org/p-47/p-47-encounter-reports.html) you can see that by mid 43, the 4th FG were using API ammunition, whether as the 56th FG are still using AP&I. Shift to 1944 and the 56th are using API&T or pure API, so the AP&I belt clearly was replaced and API was used in the timeframe relevant to Normandy.

 

Interestingly Gabreskis report from 30 Jan, it appears as though he had the 6 inboard guns firing API or APIT (difficult to make out) and his two outboards firing pure incendiary so there was clearly a lot of freedom for the big boys (he switched back to pure API for his February kills).

 

The books a great overall source, but the 100s of AARs we have across an almost 2 year period are far more detailed and paint a different picture about API.

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Marduk

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  • 5 weeks later...
On 8/4/2021 at 11:51 PM, NineLine said:

The rounds are added to DCS based on the type of round and such, and with the new DM, all this should be accounted for.

 

So far I haven't been told no on the M1 Incendiary and M1 Tracer so I am hopeful we can do accurate belts with those as well. Maybe an Early 43, Late 43 and 44. I love options. If I update the above plan, I will share it here.

 

Thanks guys.

Hi, may i ask how does it look with proposed changes (M8 API)? Is it ingame and did i missed it in changelog or not yet. Or its not going to be implemented.

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  • 1 month later...

Hi @NineLine

 

Sorry to chase again but I was wondering if these changes have been approved and whether there is a timeline on their implementation?

 

More than happy to dig into some more evidence if there are any question marks.

 

It's so great having the tracerless belts now working in multiplayer but with the belt having 2 Ball rounds, it noticeably loses a lot of it's effectiveness.

 

 

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  • 1 month later...

Thanks for the update @NineLine

Researching, building and testing 2 new rounds is a good chunk of work so understand the delay on that. 

While that's happening, is it possible to introduce the 2 44 (APIT44 & API44) belts that you put together in the next update? The P47 and P51 models we have in the sim are both 44/45 planes so would have no doubt flown with these almost exclusively in their time setting (plus the A-G belt we have currently but API was still mainly used for ground attack) and in the settings we have in the SP Campaigns/MP. 

Completely understand wanting to wait for the new rounds and to do it in one go but it's quite a task putting those rounds together. With everything else the team has on their plate, we could be waiting quite a while.

With the work you've put together below and the fact we've got everything we need currently with the M8 & M20 already in the sim, it would be a pretty significant QoL update for the US planes that's 100% ready to go. 

 

On 8/2/2021 at 10:34 PM, NineLine said:

1)    -- [1] = Cartridge, caliber .50, ball, M2
2)    -- [2] = Cartridge, caliber .50, armor piercing, M2
3)    -- [3] = Cartridge, caliber .50, armor-piercing incendiary, M8
4)    -- [4] = Cartridge, caliber .50, armor-piercing incendiary tracer, M20

        ammo_type = {
            _("APIT44 1944 M8x4/M20x1"),
            _("API44 1944 M8 No Tracer"),
            _("APT43 1943 M2x4/M20x1"),
            _("AP43 1943 M2No Tracer"),
        },

Outer L: 
                    --[[ APIT44 ]]  {3, 3, 3, 3, 4},
                    --[[ API44 ]]  {3},
                    --[[ APT43 ]]  {2, 2, 2, 2, 4},
                    --[[ AP43 ]]  {2},
                },
Middle L:
                    --[[ APIT44 ]]  {3, 3, 3, 4, 3},
                    --[[ API44 ]]  {3},
                    --[[ APT43 ]]  {2, 2, 2, 4, 2},
                    --[[ AP43 ]]  {2},
                },
Inner L:
                    --[[ APIT44 ]]  {3, 3, 4, 3, 3},
                    --[[ API44 ]]  {3},
                    --[[ APT43 ]]  {2, 2, 4, 2, 2},
                    --[[ AP43 ]]  {2},
                },

Inner R:
                    --[[ APIT44 ]]  {3, 3, 4, 3, 3},
                    --[[ API44 ]]  {3},
                    --[[ APT43 ]]  {2, 2, 4, 2, 2},
                    --[[ AP43 ]]  {2},
                },
Middle R:
                    --[[ APIT44 ]]  {3, 4, 3, 3, 3},
                    --[[ API44 ]]  {3},
                    --[[ APT43 ]]  {2, 4, 2, 2, 2},
                    --[[ AP43 ]]  {2},
                },
Outer R:
                    --[[ APIT44 ]]  {4, 3, 3, 3, 3},
                    --[[ API44 ]]  {3},
                    --[[ APT43 ]]  {4, 2, 2, 2, 2},
                    --[[ AP43 ]]  {2},
                },

 

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@NineLine

I second what @Cass is getting at. If I understand correctly, the rounds currently in game will be able to simulate late war belts in their full historical accuracy. Would it be possible to implement just those in the interim? Most MP and SP scenarios take place where those belts would have been in primary use, so I think it would be beneficial to the sim to get those in first. 

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not to stir up things but a new configured belt would mean more damage right?

sure would put a nail in the endless discussion regarding that topic.

however as its been stated its a late ware belt config, wouldnt it make sense to have options for hi octane fuel then? for the sake of a correct setting?

dont get me wrong i'm not die hard with this, just curious.

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