When I look to the sides, I see double... ???(G2)

[JEFX]

Hi all passionate VR users.

I am relatively new to VR (with a new REVERB G2) and I would like your advice.  

I am a bit desperate...

 

THE PROBLEM:

When I look in front (flying), everything looks very crisp and clear, and even when I look to the back as well, but when I look to the sides, everything seems double, like if my eyes were crooked...  If I pause the game, the image is perfect though, it happens only when unpaused...  It is most evident when flying low, (for example, over an urban area with buildings), looking to the sides, all buildings are doubled...

 

WHAT I DID:

I tried everything I read here and I listened to all Youtube videos about G2 and optimization, etc... I deleted the shaders and had them reconstruct themselves, I tried all sorts of configuration of SteamVR settings, multipliers, Pixel density, etc...  I ended up going for general video setting 100% (or 150% where the little white tick mark is)-100% (App specific) in SteamVR and PD 1,0 with good graphics settings and it all looks pretty good on my system...   I need glasses but I have bought some  prescription lens adapters from WIDMOvr and it works great...

 

MY SYSTEM:

Win10, i9 9900K, 32G RAM, RTX3090, REVERB G2

 

I know that this is a pretty good system, it should'nt be such a problem... actually, I get around 30 fps in VR with pretty high GFx settings (no MSAA).

But no matter what I tried, I have this problem always (It is a bit apparent in MSFS2020 as well but much less so!)

 

Any help would be very appreciated, thanks

 

JEFX

 

[eaglecash867]

From looking at your Steam VR SS settings, I think you have it set too high.  When I was setting just Steam VR SS, and leaving DCS PD at 1.0, about the most I could manage for Steam VR SS was about 70%.  Anything above that would cause ghosting when looking to the sides.  Try setting your Steam VR SS to 60%, see if you still have the problem, and if its gone, start slowly ramping the Steam VR SS up to just below where you start to see the ghosting again.  Also, make sure you have Motion Reprojection turned on.  If you are running your G2 at 90Hz, when Motion Reprojection is turned on you should see a steady 45 FPS being indicated.  If it fluctuates up and down, above and below 45, Motion Reprojection isn't turned on.  Having that turned off can also cause a lot of ghosting, even at really low Steam VR SS settings. 

[speed-of-heat]

see my settings guide, in summary you are getting some reprojection, so you might need to lower your settings a smidge.

[JEFX]

Thanks for your help!

But it doesnt seem to work...

 

@eaglecash867

1) I changed the SteamVR settings.  If I understand correctly, I have to set the general VIDEO setting ('resolution per eye') and I did set it at 100% then I need to dig into the 'application-specific' settings, where originally I had 100% as well but I just tried 60% as you said and it doesnt change the doubling effect   By the way, did I do this correctly, is that what you mean by SteamVr SS ? because I dont see that setting specifically like this anywhere???

 

2) I did download OpenXR developper tools and did set the Motion Reprojection force ON....  But it doesnt seem to do anything (and my frame rate still fluctuates between 45 and 60 at all times, that makes me think I am not getting what you were talkin about??

 

@speed-of-heat

Thanks, I did try to follow all your recommendations on your very good guide (posted by BIGNEWY!) but perhaps some of the things still elude me...  When you say lower your settings, can you tell me exactly in what order the settings should be dialed in?  (I am surprised that I have to 'lower' my settings when I just bought a very very costly 3090... 

???

 

thanks again!!

 

[eaglecash867]

Yup.  It definitely doesn't look like your motion reprojection is turned on.  Unfortunately, I don't know anything about OpenXR developer tools, so I wouldn't be much good at helping you get that set up correctly.  Hopefully someone else will know how to get that turned on for you, I only know how to turn it on in Steam VR For WMR.

[speed-of-heat]

well lets start with what are your current settings....in windows , nvidia, wmr, steamvr and dcs... without knowing that its a bit like shooting in the dark... but if you look at my guide you will see that when i make a change each one (at least from a DCS pov)  has a frame time cost or improvement... 

 

i think its about being realistic... with what we have vs what the game demands.

[JEFX]

@eaglecash867 Can you tell me how to turn reprojection on in Steam VR for WMR, this what I use actually for the G2 but I dont seem to find where to turn it on?  I thought that I read that one needed the OpenXR developper tool in order to set reprojection on...  

 

@speed-of-heat  thanks, I am not at home now, but if you dont mind I will take a snapshot of my settings.  Which ones do you need in order to make up your idea? you say current settings in windows???   I will try and put them together..  thanks so much

[speed-of-heat]

turning on motion reprojection or smoothing, i think is in my guide...

 

1) open Windows Mixed reality for Steam VR Settings "x:\Program Files (x86)\Steam\steamapps\common\MixedRealityVRDriver\bin\win64\OpenVRSettingsUX.exe"

2) select Graphics-> And then selcet SteamVR per-app setting

3) then load up SteamVR, and  Steam VRSettings:

a)(if all you play is DCS) go to General and select forced  or

b) if you play lots of games in vr go to Video Per-Application Video Settings -> Manage Video Settings for DCS and select force always on if you are using MSAA and you will , enabled if you are not using MSAA  

 

as for which settings ... all of them but lets start with dcs 

[JEFX]

Thanks for your help speed...

I just went back to your guide and I realize that when I looked at it at first there were so many concepts and terms that were new to me that I skipped many things...

But for now I do have a small interrogation... I looked really well and in my usual \Program Files (x86)\Steam\steamapps\common  I dont have a MixedRealityVRDriver folder...

 

oups, while I was typing this, I did a search and my computer found it on another drive in F:\steamapps\GAMES\SteamLibrary etc...

will give it a try, thanks!

[JEFX]

HURRAY!!!!

I have been disapointed since the beginning with VR because I thought I could never look on the side and not see double...

NOW IT IS GREAT, that did  it: force motion reprojection (I had no idea that this control panel existed (OpenVRSettingsUX.exe !!!!)

Thanks so much!!!!!!!

 

now for the performance (which stays pretty solid at 45 now and I have MSAA x2)

 

SteamVR Global Video settings :

resolution per eye:  100% (3160X3092)

SteamVR 

[eaglecash867]

Glad to see you got it working, JEFX.

 

Speed, I learned something new from your last post too.  I had no idea that the WMR screen could be accessed without having to go into VR and use the controllers.  Thanks for posting that!

[JEFX]

oups pressed enter too early...

continued:

 

SteamVR global settings:

  90 hz

  Motion Smoothing ON

  Resolution per eye 100% (3160x3092)

SteamVR DCS specific settings:

  Motion smoothing: force always on

  Custom resolution multiplyer : 80% (as per your suggestion in your guide)

  override world scale 115% (I always felt the cockpit looked like toy aircraft, too small...)

DCS latest openbeta 2.7.2 settings

  Pixel density 1.0  

  MSAA x 2

  A lot of HIGH settings, I can  post later

 

what do you think?

    

 

[speed-of-heat]

I think if you aren’t getting ghosting to the side , then it’s awesome,  

[RoboHackfeld]

Anyone does have a similar solution for Oculus Quest 2? I have exact the same Double View JEFX explained but I am using the Oculus Quest 2 so I dont have those settings.

 

Using DCS via Oculus Link -> Steam VR -> DCS

Also using Oculus TrayTool.

 

 

[The_Nephilim]

On 8/2/2021 at 7:42 AM, RoboHackfeld said:

Anyone does have a similar solution for Oculus Quest 2? I have exact the same Double View JEFX explained but I am using the Oculus Quest 2 so I dont have those settings.

 

Using DCS via Oculus Link -> Steam VR -> DCS

Also using Oculus TrayTool.

 

I too have a double effect when looking out the sides with a Rift S.. Any solutions here for Occulus.

 

Edited August 3, 2021 by The_Nephilim

[speed-of-heat]

isn't ASW the Oculus equivalent of motion smoothing ? 

[The_Nephilim]

3 minutes ago, speed-of-heat said:

isn't ASW the Oculus equivalent of motion smoothing ? 

 

Yes I do beleieve so but that is what causes it for me. I tried without ASW not sure which is better as I am unable to obtain 80FPS with DCS most times..

[eaglecash867]

If ASW is turned on and you're still getting a lot of ghosting when looking to the sides, the biggest thing that plays into that is pixel density and MSAA.  If you force ASW on, your FPS counter should be locked at 40 FPS.  If you verify that its locked on and you still get a lot of ghosting, you'll need to turn down pixel density and/or MSAA to get good results.  When I had my CV1, I also found that Kegetys shader mod helped tremendously with reducing ghosting.

[The_Nephilim]

10 minutes ago, eaglecash867 said:

If ASW is turned on and you're still getting a lot of ghosting when looking to the sides, the biggest thing that plays into that is pixel density and MSAA.  If you force ASW on, your FPS counter should be locked at 40 FPS.  If you verify that its locked on and you still get a lot of ghosting, you'll need to turn down pixel density and/or MSAA to get good results.  When I had my CV1, I also found that Kegetys shader mod helped tremendously with reducing ghosting.

 

Well PD in DCS is at 1.0 and I do run a higher then native for the Rift S in the occulus software. I run it on quality setting which is 1648x1776.. I have run with MSAA x2 so I will try and turn the rez down and the MSAA Off to see what happens.

[The_Nephilim]

Well as it turns out I tried running with ASW Off and it might have been that plus a busy mission that made the ground object appear to double. I tried again with ASW on and it looked a bit smoother on ground objects to the side..

 

I will experiment some more but I think you are correct in that keeping ASW/Motion Reprojection on seems to keep it smoother looking? I thought it was the other way around..

[eaglecash867]

Heh.  You know, I have read lots of posts from people on this forum saying they turn ASW/Motion Reprojection off in order to eliminate ghosting and it always makes me wonder what they've been smoking.  If that actually works, it has managed to elude me so far.  Glad it looks smoother now for you.  Depending on the aircraft you're flying, I have found in the A-10C that having video from the TGP on one MPCD and video from the MAV on the other in busy areas will cause lots of ghosting too.  Lowering other settings to compensate lead to unacceptable loss of visual quality, so I just started keeping those screens set for something other than video until I got to the target area.  "Resolution of cockpit displays" also has a performance impact, so I have mine set to 256X256.  It only seems to affect the visual quality in the mirrors.  The TGP and MAV screens don't seem to suffer from it.

[Topo]

1 hour ago, eaglecash867 said:

Heh.  You know, I have read lots of posts from people on this forum saying they turn ASW/Motion Reprojection off in order to eliminate ghosting and it always makes me wonder what they've been smoking.

For what i know, ASW/Motion reprojection work is to interpolate a few fps to reach a minimum; doing this, some artifact are inevitable.

When you have enough fps, i think is better to turn off ASW/Motion reprojection.

Sorry for my english...

[eaglecash867]

1 hour ago, Topo said:

For what i know, ASW/Motion reprojection work is to interpolate a few fps to reach a minimum; doing this, some artifact are inevitable.

When you have enough fps, i think is better to turn off ASW/Motion reprojection.

Sorry for my english...

You're definitely right about how it works, but it has been my experience that having those things turned off leads to far more ghosting when looking to the sides.  Strangely enough, it actually seems to be slowly moving objects that you fly past (such as the Su-27 pilot you just shot down coming down on a parachute) that generate some really odd artefacts.  That pilot becomes 2 pilots and stays that way.  For the most part though, turning on ASW/Motion Reprojection gives me the best experience.  Its all just a matter of dialing other things back so you're not exceeding the capabilities of your hardware.  I would have to dial those things back too far to get acceptable performance without it turned on.

 

Nothing wrong with your English.  

[RoboHackfeld]

vor 10 Stunden schrieb The_Nephilim:

Well as it turns out I tried running with ASW Off and it might have been that plus a busy mission that made the ground object appear to double. I tried again with ASW on and it looked a bit smoother on ground objects to the side..

 

I will experiment some more but I think you are correct in that keeping ASW/Motion Reprojection on seems to keep it smoother looking? I thought it was the other way around..

 

Well I found a solution for me. Hope it helps you as well. 

 

I used the "ASW 45 forced" mode before and yesterday after nothing else helped I just tried Vsync ingame to ON and ASW to 45 (not forced). 

Dont know yet if its a combination of both or just the not forced ASw Mode. 

Will check that later but this has removed the "Double effect" almost completely as long as I get 45 FPS. 

The only thing is... Now I have to mess arround with some artifacts at the edges of my vision. Maybe find a solution for this as well maybe with Destortion Curvature or Bit rate. Will make some more tests lately today. 

 

Robo