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How MI-24 controls work


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I’ll preface this by saying that before getting the Hind, I have zero experience with helicopters in virtual or real life. All of my experience is fixed wing. But as a big fan of Soviet aviation, I just had to get the Hind. And oh boy is it a challenge. My question is in regard to helicopter controls and how they behave. Not in terms of what the collective or cyclic do, I understand that. More so with the actual physical controls in the helicopter, collective/cyclic/rudder(called anti torque in the helo world?)

 

I’ve seen various discussions about trimming helos in game and some of the compromises that have to be made due to the differences in the controls most of us have at home vs the actual controls in real life. And that got me wondering just how they work in the actual aircraft. 
 

Do the controls in the Hind, and other choppers, not go back to center after making an input and releasing pressure? Like in a fixed wing. IE, I make a right input on the cyclic and let go, would the control in real life stay there or spring back to center? I see that the Hind in game has the trimmer button which, when pressed, keeps the cyclic in the present position and that becomes the new “center.” The manual  for the Hind states that this is kind of a special sim feature, does it work different in real life? 
 

I also saw that some people that fly helos remove the springs from their joysticks and use the dry clutches and set the tension so that when they release the stick it stays in place. If that is the case, what is the point of the trimmer switch? And also, from reading another post, I got the impression that the anti torque pedals are non self centering? When you press on the pedals they stay in place? 
 

Thanks for any help! Please post some good documents or videos if you know of any! I’m having a blast flying the Hind and I’m trying to wrap my head around how helicopters operate. It’s just so vastly different to the fixed wing aircraft I’m used to flying virtually and in real life for all these years 

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1 hour ago, uhntissbaby111 said:

I’ve seen various discussions about trimming helos in game and some of the compromises that have to be made due to the differences in the controls most of us have at home vs the actual controls in real life. And that got me wondering just how they work in the actual aircraft. 

 

It's a bit late for me to go in depth but I thought you would find this video interesting 😄 I will spoil it a bit, yes stick will stay in the newly trimmed position and will always return there until it is either retrimmed to new a position (and then it will always want to return there) or untrimmed completely.

 

 

 

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The trimmer works this way

1 hour ago, uhntissbaby111 said:

"Do the controls in the Hind, and other choppers, not go back to center after making an input and releasing pressure? Like in a fixed wing. IE, I make a right input on the cyclic and let go, would the control in real life stay there or spring back to center? I see that the Hind in game has the trimmer button which, when pressed, keeps the cyclic in the present position and that becomes the new “center.” The manual  for the Hind states that this is kind of a special sim feature, does it work different in real life? "

 

"I also saw that some people that fly helos remove the springs from their joysticks and use the dry clutches and set the tension so that when they release the stick it stays in place. If that is the case, what is the point of the trimmer switch? And also, from reading another post, I got the impression that the anti torque pedals are non self centering? When you press on the pedals they stay in place?"

 

When you trim the helicopter on DCS, the trimmer places your virtual cyclic where you want it stays, but your physical cyclic represented by your joystick will go back to the center, and that's why people remove the springs, in order the physical cycle or joystick works the same way as on real helicopters.

 

But, in case you don´t want to remove the springs, and you wish to release the trimmer switch? Well, before you do this proceedure, you will have to remember the right position where you trimmed your joystick, and you will heve to place it on the same way, otherwise your helicopter may be a little uncontrolled when you release the trimmer switch.


Edited by chbn

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Snip..
 
I also saw that some people that fly helos remove the springs from their joysticks and use the dry clutches and set the tension so that when they release the stick it stays in place. If that is the case, what is the point of the trimmer switch? And also, from reading another post, I got the impression that the anti torque pedals are non self centering? When you press on the pedals they stay in place? 
 
Snip...



Some of us have force feedback sticks. So we can use different techniques when we press the trimmer button.
1. Press trimmer the stick goes limp, we can move it to a new position, release the trimmer and it stays in the new position.
2. Move the stick against the force trim that is on the stick, and quickly press the trimmer button when you have the stick in your wanted position. One can do this repeatedly in rapid successions as well.

I remove the springs from my pedals, but I wish I had some dampers in them as well, or rather FFB too. As some helicopters have force trim in the pedals too.

On the collective in the Hind/Hip, you have a button you press to disengage the collective brake so you can move it. This doesn't really work in DCS of course, as there are no FFB collectives I have seen, but you have the option to simulate this.
Cheers!

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1 hour ago, MAXsenna said:

On the collective in the Hind/Hip, you have a button you press to disengage the collective brake so you can move it. This doesn't really work in DCS of course, as there are no FFB collectives I have seen, but you have the option to simulate this.

Cheers!

 

It does work as collective doesn't move accidentally. In few minutes you learn habit to press and hold that button whole moving collective.

 

It as well helps a lot if ones collective has it pot suffering from jittery.

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It does work as collective doesn't move accidentally. In few minutes you learn habit to press and hold that button whole moving collective.
 
It as well helps a lot if ones collective has it pot suffering from jittery.
Yup, exactly how I do it!

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2 hours ago, MAXsenna said:


 

 

 


Some of us have force feedback sticks. So we can use different techniques when we press the trimmer button.
1. Press trimmer the stick goes limp, we can move it to a new position, release the trimmer and it stays in the new position.
2. Move the stick against the force trim that is on the stick, and quickly press the trimmer button when you have the stick in your wanted position. One can do this repeatedly in rapid successions as well.

i wonder why this two techniques mentioned above dont work for me? i have a msffb2 stick and set my trimmer to default. when i press trim my stick gets limb and i move it to the desired position and release the trim button. then my stick recenters or even overshoots to somewhere instead of staying at trimmed location. no idea atm whats going on. any ideas?

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i wonder why this two techniques mentioned above dont work for me? i have a msffb2 stick and set my trimmer to default. when i press trim my stick gets limb and i move it to the desired position and release the trim button. then my stick recenters or even overshoots to somewhere instead of staying at trimmed location. no idea atm whats going on. any ideas?
It's because there is some fishiness in either the FFB drivers or ED's implementations.
Anyway, it's very easily solved.
Just open control settings, axis, click on MS FFB column, click FFB, check all three. Swap, x and y.
In all others modules I have to swap the axis. Hind is the first I have to invert to.
Hope this helps!
Cheers!

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12 hours ago, chbn said:

But, in case you don´t want to remove the springs, and you wish to release the trimmer switch? Well, before you do this proceedure, you will have to remember the right position where you trimmed your joystick, and you will heve to place it on the same way, otherwise your helicopter may be a little uncontrolled when you release the trimmer switch.

 

 

Can you explain this part more?  I can't quite understand what you mean here.

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Can you explain this part more?  I can't quite understand what you mean here.
I think he means that if you open controls indicator, you can see that your offset/new center is not the same as your physical joystick, and you sort of have to find that position again, or your input will be added to the offset trimmed position. But I don't think you can do that, or at least I never could, and that's why I always kept the trim button depressed when using a non FFB/non centering stick.

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6 hours ago, MAXsenna said:

I think he means that if you open controls indicator, you can see that your offset/new center is not the same as your physical joystick, and you sort of have to find that position again, or your input will be added to the offset trimmed position. But I don't think you can do that, or at least I never could, and that's why I always kept the trim button depressed when using a non FFB/non centering stick.

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You're right That is it!

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