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Yaw SAS


sublime
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Pros: The AP will hold the heading you're on when you release the trim-button. Good for "straight forward heading-hold" flight.

Cons: Not so good in hover, slow-flight, flying sideways etc. Since you'll fight the AP YAW commanded heading.

 

I prefer to fly with YAW-AP off. That way it behaves like the Mi-8 & Uh-1.

 

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Agreed. Flying with Yaw off is much more controloable and predictable.

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I basically just turn it on enroute once I've established my heading. I'd probably even leave it on and hold the trimmer while manoeuvering, but the thing does twist the pedals around which is weird when you don't have FFB on yours.

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Not sure about Mi-24, but the Mi-8 actually had switched in the pedals. With feet on the pedals, the yaw channel heading hold and the pedal force trim is inhibited so you can freely use pedals for control inputs. Stabilize the aircraft with pedals and lift the feet, the heading hold will hold new heading.

The game does not simulate "feet-on" switches and instead takes any pedal axis input as "feet-on", this creates a fight between your input and the autopilot and a jolt when you remove pedal input or use trimmer to reset pedal position.

Hope they implement a button input as switch in the future.

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1 hour ago, TomChaai said:

Not sure about Mi-24, but the Mi-8 actually had switched in the pedals. With feet on the pedals, the yaw channel heading hold and the pedal force trim is inhibited so you can freely use pedals for control inputs.

 

All trimmers are gone through in this video (IIRC it is from the developer)

 

 

 

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You can read the description of this video.

It was made 2 years ago with DCS Mi-24 already in mind 😇

 

 

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Thanks besides all this I've answered the question myself. I'm onto wondering now about what the left right switch by vert gyro buttons does;

Whether I need yaw and alt channel on for route ap; how sloppy can my hover be to engage hover AP; how the Doppler system  works and a few other things 🙂

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1 minute ago, sublime said:

 I'm onto wondering now about what the left right switch by vert gyro buttons does;

 

I guess it selects which of both gyros (main & backup) is used as a source for the various AP and nav systems

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5 hours ago, TomChaai said:

With feet on the pedals, the yaw channel heading hold and the pedal force trim is inhibited so you can freely use pedals for control inputs.

 

The pedal microswitches cut out the autopilot heading channel, but do not remove pedal force trim.

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10 minutes ago, AlphaOneSix said:

 

The pedal microswitches cut out the autopilot heading channel, but do not remove pedal force trim.

Awwww. "Pedal force trim" ? What is this sorcery? Now I'm completely lost in all these trims / AP 😄


Edited by Whisper

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2 hours ago, Whisper said:

I guess it selects which of both gyros (main & backup) is used as a source for the various AP and nav systems

So like a backup?  I need to try this with damage.

It seems my wings get blown off.. alot.

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5 minutes ago, sublime said:

So like a backup?  I need to try this with damage.

It seems my wings get blown off.. alot.

If you notice, when switching ON the Gyro 1, the upper left ADI gets activated, when switching Gyro 2, the (tinier) lower right ADI gets activated, which resemble a backup ADI to me, hence my guess 🙂

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11 hours ago, AlphaOneSix said:

 

The pedal microswitches cut out the autopilot heading channel, but do not remove pedal force trim.

I think we discussed about this a while back, it's either a translation error in the manual I read, or the manual was referring to an uncommon production option.

The autopilot/SAS on the Mi-24 is quite similar to the one found on Mi-8, actually what I experienced in game was more like the Mi-8 re-implemented properly according to the Mi-8/Mi-17 manual in better detail. For example pressing the force trim button zeroes out the autopilot pitch/roll inputs.

I think the new Mi-24 is better implemented, but would not work too well with non-FFB sticks due to the autopilot cutout, it's more tricky to press/release the trim button at the right time and avoid disrupting the autopilot, but I imagine it would work quite well with FFB sticks. The way Mi helicopters are meant to be maneuvered is to hold down the trimmer button whenever you move the cyclic, this ques the autopilot to temporarily give you more control.

Coming back to the yaw SAS, the azimuth/heading/track select feature of the autopilot is an improvement over regular Mi-8s, you can basically fly around with one knob.

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I was just looking for a thread like this, as I am wondering if this is a bug.

 

Currently your rudder neutral point wanders along the yaw axis. You can check this with the RCtrl+Enter controls readout.

The controls yaw axis had its neutral shifted to the left, the pedals in the cockpit also showed this shift, while my home cockpit rudder pedals were actually neutral. This way I couldn't apply necessary amount of right rudder while landing, as my physical rudder already was at its rightmost limit. Only pressing the trim reset brought it back to neutral. Hence rudder pedals are somehow affected by some kind of trim, even if rudder trimming is set to off in the special Mi-24 config settings.

 

This happens when the K and T channels are active. These channels seems to have full control of your yaw axis. Switching them off stops the adjustments. Yet you then can't bring it back to neutral without doing a total trim reset.

 

So maybe the authority of the channels is currently way too powerful.

Also it's weird that you can't apply any trim command to the pedals (without switching rudder trimming on in the special config), yet the AP can do so.

 

When we have rudder trimming set to off (as this is more realistic, as we are told), in the Ka-50 you can't trim rudders but the trim action "tells" the AP which azimuth target it should respect while applying the AP's percentage authority.

In the Mi-24 your trim action seems to have no yaw affect at all, so the AP governs the rudder trim like a dictator.

Maybe we should switch rudder trimming on for the Mi-24? If not, the AP trims the rudder, while we can't. Is this realistic?


Edited by Rongor
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Nazradu: indeed, it seems that it works this way, thanks a lot, now heading AP is finally my friend. I was always under impression that it reacts to trim, but it is disconnected from the trim completely, but reacts to pedals simulating the microswitches in them. It is just strange why it does not disengage when you initiate a turn with cyclic and then add pedals.

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Yep the 'H' rudder AP seems like cheat-button lol.

If you also hit the Hover and Alt buttons while you were hovering at the start there you will get a nice hover-hold as well. It will automatically engage the B (Blade) channel to hold your altitude.

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On 6/19/2021 at 9:43 PM, jojo said:

You can read the description of this video.

It was made 2 years ago with DCS Mi-24 already in mind 😇

 

 

 

Seeing this makes me want a short input delay after pushing the trim button for the cyclic.

After trimming the Hind suddenly pitches up or down without enough time to recenter my stick.

Never had this problem in the Huey.

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1 minute ago, ojanim said:

 

Seeing this makes me want a short input delay after pushing the trim button for the cyclic.

After trimming the Hind suddenly pitches up or down without enough time to recenter my stick.

Never had this problem in the Huey.

The delay happens after releasing it, not after pushing it.

Quick depression of the trim button induces this problem. Try to get used to keep the trim button pressed throughout your entire maneuver, then release it only after finding the desired attitude. This helped me a lot reducing these hiccups after trim release...

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Someone people above wrote that turning YAW-AP off would make the trimming behaviour more like the Huey or the Hip.
So do you turn off YAW-AP normally during take-off and landing?


Edited by ojanim

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17 minutes ago, ojanim said:

Someone people above wrote that turning YAW-AP off would make the trimming behaviour more like the Huey or the Hip.
So do you turn off YAW-AP normally during take-off and landing?

 

Trimmer seems to affect only pitch and roll or in other words the position of the virtual stick. I think it realy helps to have yaw AP on as long as you stick to what I said in the video. The yaw AP will manage the torque for you and that makes take off and landing super easy as long as you go easy on the collective. As mentioned by others when you want to change roll or pitch develop the habit to push and hold the trimmer get desired roll and pitch with the cyclic and when you reached the desired attitude release the trimmer and center the your physical stick. But remember! When ever you want to change your heading with yaw AP on, do it with your pedals and only assist it with cyclic. Watch the video. It's all explained in 7 minutes 😉


Edited by nazradu
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