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How good is the flight model?


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I know it is early access and flight model not finalized of course.

still, anybody with extensive experience in the Mi 8 or real Mi 24 pilot that can elaborate how good the flight model is?

i am mostly interested if it has character like the Mi 8 has.

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1 minute ago, giaco1 said:

I'm a real (heavy) helicopter pilot,

the FM of DCS Hind it's very very impressive. BEST Helos FM EVER! EVER!

 

Wow, impressive. Do you have the Mi 8 module. I started loving that bird, because of its very distinctive character. How does the Mi 24 compare to the Mi 8?

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32 minutes ago, kunterbunt said:

I know it is early access and flight model not finalized of course.

still, anybody with extensive experience in the Mi 8 or real Mi 24 pilot that can elaborate how good the flight model is?

i am mostly interested if it has character like the Mi 8 has.

 

No real experience from the Mi-24. But what can be said about its feeling and look, it flies like you see in the videos. 

The lead developer is ex-Mi-24 pilot, why they have well tested the feeling and all (don't know how may other active or non-active pilots they have) behaviors. 

 

The Mi-8 is totally different compared to Mi-24, totally on character to fly with faithful traces of the Mi-8 itself. At the low speeds you are similar, but when you get in the speed it becomes very unique experience to fly compared anything that DCS World offers at the moment.

 

Edit: The old discussions about "How to prepare for MI-24P when released, what module to fly" is interesting now as hindsight. That Mi-8 really was the best thing for that (odd how people suggested other helicopters even) but it is so dream to fly for the attack with Mi-24 that it handles almost like a fixed plane, it is so stable.

It is very difficult to say what exactly is the difference, but if you think about cutting a tomato with a dull table knife vs sharp fruit knife you can get the idea how those move through air.

 

The idea that Mi-24 is like a crocodile that spots its prey and it will move straight on it is pretty good analogy as well. Where in Mi-8 it was always little risky to think that what will happen on your next rocket attack as you are so "slow" to move. Where the Mi-24P gives you courage to attack head-on.

 


Edited by Fri13
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Can't speak to realism but I really enjoy flying the Hind so far. It's squirrely to pick up and hover or even do a rolling takeoff, but in flight with those wings she's very very stable. Unless the AI is flying her!

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Is it true the thing will just tip over if you don’t have the stick held exactly right while on the ground?

 

also it’s weird that I’ve had the hind drive exactly left. Like slip left. Had collective all the way down. Lol I mean I’ll manage all the quirks but the ground behavior is uh weird to me. If it’s accurate it’s accurate. Just weird

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If you pull too hard, too quickly on the collective, the anti torque can't compensate fast enough and she will begin to tip over. You have to be very gentle with the collective on hover ... well always really.

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I thought I was being gentle but... wait you’re walking me into a joke aren’t you lol 

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I’m a child. I know because my wife keeps telling me so

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1 hour ago, Relic said:

Is it true the thing will just tip over if you don’t have the stick held exactly right while on the ground?

 

also it’s weird that I’ve had the hind drive exactly left. Like slip left. Had collective all the way down. Lol I mean I’ll manage all the quirks but the ground behavior is uh weird to me. If it’s accurate it’s accurate. Just weird

 

Helicopters are a bugger for trying to kill you if you let go of anything. This would be compensated for with control locks/friction or force trim in the real thing.

 

Wheel/Parking brakes help with the wandering I've found. You can also not wind the throttle on until you've got your hands on the controls and ready to go, or wind it off immediately upon landing.

 

Not aimed at you specifically Relic, but for others, the general principle with lifting off in a helicopter is lift the collective a tiny bit, correct any forward/lateral movement or yaw, then lift a bit more, repeat, repeat, until miraculously you part with the earth but stay over the exact same bit of it. "Light on the skids" is the term I'm familiar with, but the same principle applies to wheels... probably. 🙂

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2 minutes ago, Grievo said:

...Wheel/Parking brakes help with the wandering I've found...

 

 

Yes, me too. I find myself feathering the wheel brakes on hover check.

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16 minutes ago, Grievo said:

 

Helicopters are a bugger for trying to kill you if you let go of anything. This would be compensated for with control locks/friction or force trim in the real thing.

 

Wheel/Parking brakes help with the wandering I've found. You can also not wind the throttle on until you've got your hands on the controls and ready to go, or wind it off immediately upon landing.

 

Not aimed at you specifically Relic, but for others, the general principle with lifting off in a helicopter is lift the collective a tiny bit, correct any forward/lateral movement or yaw, then lift a bit more, repeat, repeat, until miraculously you part with the earth but stay over the exact same bit of it. "Light on the skids" is the term I'm familiar with, but the same principle applies to wheels... probably. 🙂


Yeah I found that wheel/parking brakes were all but required with the hind. 
 

But the instability is radically different than the Huey, shark, and mi8. All of those I can lift off fairly quickly and make corrections. Although the mi8 has some of this instability in takeoff it seems easier to tame.

 

The hind is the first one where I have to really really go easy on the collective for take off. It’s new to me. Though the hind is an attack helo , takeoff and landing aren’t the focus. Huey has to be able to get off skids quickly 

 

edit: and to be clear, I’m smooth on the collective on all these birds. I’m not yanking it up and expecting wizardry


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Also landing is very neat, takes finesse and is quite different. The forward tilted rotor makes the thing not want to stop, so you need quite a bit of pitch to stop forward movement. And then you have no visibility so you really need to approach the pad at an angle. 
 

I can see why it was landed like a plane. I was able to do that no issue lol

Just now, wowbagger said:

Just ask his wife.

Lmao 😂 

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58 minutes ago, Relic said:

Also landing is very neat, takes finesse and is quite different. The forward tilted rotor makes the thing not want to stop, so you need quite a bit of pitch to stop forward movement. And then you have no visibility so you really need to approach the pad at an angle. 
 

I can see why it was landed like a plane. I was able to do that no issue lol

Lmao 😂 

Yeah trying to land from a hover or even enter to a hover is a ***** for me right now. Lol

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So can you do the shark style takeoff where you hold trim, increase power, stick forwards to keep the nose down, more power, stick forwards, more power, stick forwards etc etc until you can't quite keep it on the ground, then release trim, and pour on the power?

 

By that I just mean something similar where you trim it to T/O trim basically...  then just take off, but clearly with rudder input because it's not coaxial...  I know the trim and forces involved aren't the same...  but I assumed that you could trim it to a situation where you can just "dump the clutch" so to speak and bug out with rudder correction...

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Just had my first tries of trying to liftoff without killing myself. Majorities are deadly. 

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5 hours ago, M1Combat said:

So can you do the shark style takeoff where you hold trim, increase power, stick forwards to keep the nose down, more power, stick forwards, more power, stick forwards etc etc until you can't quite keep it on the ground, then release trim, and pour on the power?

 

By that I just mean something similar where you trim it to T/O trim basically...  then just take off, but clearly with rudder input because it's not coaxial...  I know the trim and forces involved aren't the same...  but I assumed that you could trim it to a situation where you can just "dump the clutch" so to speak and bug out with rudder correction...

Shark trimmer is different, you hold it then release. Hind is more like Huey/mi8 where you press and release the trim button like a regular button press to set it. Though I can't describe to you the exact way each of these aircraft trim types differ. You could probably hold the stick back about half, and significantly to the right, then trim and release and you'll be in a good spot to start feeling out the take-off if you want to take-off in trim.

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10 hours ago, Relic said:

Is it true the thing will just tip over if you don’t have the stick held exactly right while on the ground?

 

No. 

You have plenty of movement for avoiding tipping over. Just be aware that when you pull collective, you shouldn't have wheel brakes on. As then you can flip over because your CoG is on the locked wheel.

 

10 hours ago, Relic said:

also it’s weird that I’ve had the hind drive exactly left. Like slip left. Had collective all the way down. Lol I mean I’ll manage all the quirks but the ground behavior is uh weird to me. If it’s accurate it’s accurate. Just weird

 

If you have wheel brakes on, it will slide on ground if given enough power, or sidewind.

 

5 hours ago, M1Combat said:

So can you do the shark style takeoff where you hold trim, increase power, stick forwards to keep the nose down, more power, stick forwards, more power, stick forwards etc etc until you can't quite keep it on the ground, then release trim, and pour on the power?

 

By that I just mean something similar where you trim it to T/O trim basically...  then just take off, but clearly with rudder input because it's not coaxial...  I know the trim and forces involved aren't the same...  but I assumed that you could trim it to a situation where you can just "dump the clutch" so to speak and bug out with rudder correction...

 

Yes you can. You can do the rolling take-off with nose wheel. 

You don't have similar power as with KA-50, you can end up losing generators like in Mi-8. 

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19 minutes ago, deathbysybian said:

What about the tendencies to violently pitch up in fast forward flight?

 

Also known as retreating blade stall.

 

That can and will happen with every helicopter at fast forward flight, while you are over 270km/h IAS you need to be gentle with your inputs but even that won't save you from massive over speed. Since Hind has clockwise rotating blades when you induce retreating blade stall it will pitch up and to the right (counter clockwise rotating blades would pitch up and to the left).

 

For example on Ka-50 that doesn't happen because before your nose goes up your coaxial rotor blades already chopped themselves to pieces.

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1 minute ago, deathbysybian said:

I've had the roll-over effect, but what I'm talking about is less than 300kph.  Pull up on the elevator and reduce collective to slow down, and it pitches up to 90 degrees uncommanded.  

This is finally how to describe what I meant when I said I was skeptical about some fm things.  This doesn't feel right and it's very violent. And you're right I get it trying to slow and descend 

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