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Laser Tracking / returning safe


Hamster0
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Is it just me or since most recent update does the laser seem to switch off/return safe seemingly  the slightest movement. 

 

What is the laser to safe logic? Currently almost impossible to do any track of moving targets without buddy lase.

And if not moving have to fly pretty much straight perfect line and hope no Manpads.

 

Am i missing something, or is this intended?

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45 minutes ago, Hamster0 said:

Is it just me or since most recent update does the laser seem to switch off/return safe seemingly  the slightest movement. 

 

What is the laser to safe logic? Currently almost impossible to do any track of moving targets without buddy lase.

And if not moving have to fly pretty much straight perfect line and hope no Manpads.

 

Am i missing something, or is this intended?

Very noob Harrier pilot here and yes, prior to yesterdays patch slewing the TGP with the laser firing did NOT safe the laser, post yesterdays patch it does.

 

Update, I should have read further down first:

 

 


Edited by zildac

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Thanks Zildac,

 

I think the fundamental problem is that if you touch the slew button at all it renders safe. Hope this can be reviewed and fixed, or tell us that this is how it is meant to work.

 

 

Razbam, hry tracking a moving target, even in active pause, anywhere other than a runway...  the point (or MT if this works?) is not going to be perfect. So if you lose the target and need to move the slew button even slightly  to reaquire, then you need to turn laser off of safe and fire again...this does not seem intuitive....

 

It also appears that if you need to turn momentarily and it tries to re-aquire, even if successful, it also renders safe; maybe this is because INS is making it re-aquire and it resets the logic.  

 

 

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3 hours ago, Hamster0 said:

Thanks Zildac,

 

I think the fundamental problem is that if you touch the slew button at all it renders safe. Hope this can be reviewed and fixed, or tell us that this is how it is meant to work.

 

 

Razbam, hry tracking a moving target, even in active pause, anywhere other than a runway...  the point (or MT if this works?) is not going to be perfect. So if you lose the target and need to move the slew button even slightly  to reaquire, then you need to turn laser off of safe and fire again...this does not seem intuitive....

 

It also appears that if you need to turn momentarily and it tries to re-aquire, even if successful, it also renders safe; maybe this is because INS is making it re-aquire and it resets the logic.  

 

 

I tried after I posted and even though I "thought" I had met all the criteria as you say the laser went to safe as soon as I slewed the pod. I was just practicing the JDAM ripple whereby you lase the target, markpoint, slew to next and even in area track as soon as I moved the pod to try and repeat the procedure for the next target it went to safe. So yes, it doesn't seem right. But as I mentioned I have a grand total of about 60 minutes in the Harrier so perhaps I'm missing something.

12900KF | Maximus Hero Z690 | EVGA 3090 FTW Ultra | 32GB DDR5 4800 | DCS on 2TB NVMe | WarBRD+Warthog Stick | CM3 | TM TPR's | Reverb G2

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This CANNOT be how it's supposed to work.

 

Even the tiniest slew will safe the laser, this makes tracking adjustments and attacking moving targets impossible. I'm often making minor adjustments to AREA track with an LGB or LMAV/APKWS in flight - this new behavior makes this impossible.....  TPOD is now borderline unusable.

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16 hours ago, AvroLanc said:

This CANNOT be how it's supposed to work.

 

Even the tiniest slew will safe the laser, this makes tracking adjustments and attacking moving targets impossible. I'm often making minor adjustments to AREA track with an LGB or LMAV/APKWS in flight - this new behavior makes this impossible.....  TPOD is now borderline unusable.

They're looking into it and will update it in the next patch. An SME has also confirmed this is not ho it's supposed to behave. We now have to wait for the next hot-fix from ED. 

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8 minutes ago, Thanatos31 said:

They're looking into it and will update it in the next patch. An SME has also confirmed this is not ho it's supposed to behave. We now have to wait for the next hot-fix from ED. 

Ok, at least it’s being looked at. Thanks. 

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On 6/17/2021 at 12:42 PM, Hamster0 said:

Is it just me or since most recent update does the laser seem to switch off/return safe seemingly  the slightest movement. 

 

What is the laser to safe logic? Currently almost impossible to do any track of moving targets without buddy lase.

And if not moving have to fly pretty much straight perfect line and hope no Manpads.

 

Am i missing something, or is this intended?

 

I haven't tested all the required parameters when it should return to safety mode....  

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On 6/19/2021 at 9:29 PM, AvroLanc said:

This CANNOT be how it's supposed to work.

 

Even the tiniest slew will safe the laser, this makes tracking adjustments and attacking moving targets impossible. I'm often making minor adjustments to AREA track with an LGB or LMAV/APKWS in flight - this new behavior makes this impossible.....  TPOD is now borderline unusable.

 

Do you have a target designated? Without designation the laser doesn't turn On and will switch to Safety.

Does it work with track for moving target? Because on me it works with Point Track (MT = Multi-Target feature).

 

 

But the TPOD is working incorrectly.

 

You do need to have a target designated so that laser doesn't safety itself. This means we need proper target designation feature. 

We can't just point TPOD somewhere and it have a perfect ground stabilization and slant range information. We shouldn't even get a accurate GPS coordinates for JDAM with TPOD, but get that information from JTAC. 

 

So to this it should be enough have TD and then just have TPOD pointing where ever in required mode (Point = Moving or small target, Area = For hold aim at the area when flying around it as TPOD doesn't know the range, INR = Inertia when masking the view, doesn't track any target because lack of contrast tracking and MT = Multi-Target that will have multiple points created to switch between) as long;

1) The TPOD is not masked (not implemented, we as well have a perfect tracking because of this).

2) The TPOD video is not hidden longer than 15 seconds (not implemented, you can't have TPOD and Maverick video same time open either, so you need buddy lazing, unless you can in 15 seconds to switch from TPOD to maverick, acquire a lock, launch maverick and switch back to TPOD...).

 

But the laser should be able fire as long those parameters are met, so you can move the Area mode but it should be little wavy and chance its position based the overall area contrast pattern based your flight, why you want to have point track for small individual targets, but it can't keep pointing on ground then. You need INR mode to maintain POD looking at proper direction when going through masking, so you need slant range before that by using a contrast lock. 

 

So we should be able keep firing laser, but then have targeting point moving around because area track is not so accurate, the point track can jump on something else, and INR mode can be shifting as well if it doesn't know slant range first (LTIP is not laser ranging but it is Laser Imaging feature for low-contrast targets). 

 

So I don't know is my bug report fixed as laser arming is wrong (you are required to correct manually TPOD position in many modes as it is drifting around without contrast lock), but yet all the requirements are met (but now doesn't accept TDC movements).  

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  • 2 weeks later...

Just did a quick test, Laser does not safe now when TPOD slewed; other pre laser firing conditions appear to be working as intended 

 

Thank-you for swift resolution. 


Edited by Hamster0
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On 7/1/2021 at 11:00 AM, Kappa said:

Yesterday i switched to NAV mode and the laser was still armed

 

Did you check any other conditions?

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2 hours ago, Kappa said:

Other conditions was true, but I thought A/G was required, right?

 

Yes it was. 

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i7-8700k, 16GB 2666Mhz DDR4, 1080Ti 11GB, 27" 4K, 65" HDR 4K.

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