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DCS F-16C JDAM implementation


llOPPOTATOll
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It appears that ED modeled the JDAM SMS pages as if it had a JPF fuze, but we do not have JPF in DCS. In addition to this, the SMS Base and Control page isnt blanking things that it should and the Arming Delay is incorrect.


     On the SMS base page the Function delay should be blanked because we dont have JPF equipped JDAMs, the impact azimuth should be blanked if 0 is entered. On the SMS Control page, the Function delay and the AIR/GND/GND DLY should be blanked aswel. The arming delay should not be a rotary without JPF equipped JDAMS, instead it should be a data entry MFD page that you can enter a value between 0-99.99 seconds. This is because without JPF installed the arming delay isnt actually sent to the bomb but is only used for HUD LOW cues.

I would have attached photos of diagrams but it is against the forum rules.


Edited by llOPPOTATOll
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38 minutes ago, llOPPOTATOll said:

t appears that ED modeled the JDAM SMS pages as if it had a JPF fuze, but we do not have JPF in DCS

This would be correct, as we plan on adding this in the future, its a new type of fuze for us, and will take a little time to do, but the system is there waiting for it. Thanks.

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The wording on the SMS Base page is also too spaced out.

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This would be correct, as we plan on adding this in the future, its a new type of fuze for us, and will take a little time to do, but the system is there waiting for it. Thanks.

All of that stuff shouldnt even be displayed if the JDAM doesnt have JPF. So if were getting JPF in the future thats cool, but we dont have it right now so the SMS page shouldnt show it.

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hey @NineLine, I was going to file a bug report... Its taking anywhere between 8 and 10 gbu31s with penetrating warheads to destroy an ammo depot (the big bunker.)

I think your response above basically says that the current fuze we have wont allow the GND DLY function to actually work, so even though I am selecting GND DLY, the fuze is triggering on impact and thus not penetrating. And then if I read between the lines, it sounds like the fuze is coming soon so this is probably WIP.

 

Is that accurate? (so no bug report because this is WIP?) If you review the track below, ignore the terrible flying. I was in a hurry. 

 

Appreciate any feedback.

 

TJ

TenGBUwithPenetratingWarheads.trk

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As far as I'm aware in DCS the damage a bomb does to a target is encoded entirely within the bomb logical object and it is not (yet?) the case that a bomb will have different damage based on difference in fuzing alone. And so a fuze action of 0ms or 180ms makes no difference currently. However I was able to kill an ammunition depot in 4 bombs of -31v3 type (default parameters, level M.8 from 25kft) while it took 9 of the -31v1 type (same parameters). I also did 8x GBU-24 from Mirage AI and it also took 8. I can't explain why it took about double in your track.

 

Programming the fuze through 1760 bus only works with FMU-152 fuze and the "AIR" "GND" "GND DLY" options only appear if FMU-152 is communicating on the bus. It looks like FMU-152 is intended to be modeled but it is simply early progress / incomplete. None of the JPF options have an effect except arming delay.

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37 minutes ago, Frederf said:

As far as I'm aware in DCS the damage a bomb does to a target is encoded entirely within the bomb logical object and it is not (yet?) the case that a bomb will have different damage based on difference in fuzing alone. And so a fuze action of 0ms or 180ms makes no difference currently. However I was able to kill an ammunition depot in 4 bombs of -31v3 type (default parameters, level M.8 from 25kft) while it took 9 of the -31v1 type (same parameters). I also did 8x GBU-24 from Mirage AI and it also took 8. I can't explain why it took about double in your track.

 

Programming the fuze through 1760 bus only works with FMU-152 fuze and the "AIR" "GND" "GND DLY" options only appear if FMU-152 is communicating on the bus. It looks like FMU-152 is intended to be modeled but it is simply early progress / incomplete. None of the JPF options have an effect except arming delay.

OK- im going to create a bug report. If you use the 31v3 on the hornet, it takes two to kill the depot. And while I thought you were wrong about the fuze settings, I even put the 31v3 on instant fuze in the hornet and still it only took two 31v3s to kill it.

 

Really odd that the exact same weapon provides different damage values between the two platforms. 

 

TJ


Edited by Tj1376
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1 hour ago, Frederf said:

As far as I'm aware in DCS the damage a bomb does to a target is encoded entirely within the bomb logical object and it is not (yet?) the case that a bomb will have different damage based on difference in fuzing alone. And so a fuze action of 0ms or 180ms makes no difference currently. However I was able to kill an ammunition depot in 4 bombs of -31v3 type (default parameters, level M.8 from 25kft) while it took 9 of the -31v1 type (same parameters). I also did 8x GBU-24 from Mirage AI and it also took 8. I can't explain why it took about double in your track.

 

Programming the fuze through 1760 bus only works with FMU-152 fuze and the "AIR" "GND" "GND DLY" options only appear if FMU-152 is communicating on the bus. It looks like FMU-152 is intended to be modeled but it is simply early progress / incomplete. None of the JPF options have an effect except arming delay.

 

It looks like two GBU-3(V)1/B in Airburst mode do NOT kill a Workshop A static building, but two of them in Ground (no delay) DOES kill it. Did multiple tests with consistent results. Anyone else confirm?

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Please make your own thread, this has little to do with the original post.

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  • 1 month later...
On 6/16/2021 at 6:21 PM, llOPPOTATOll said:

It appears that ED modeled the JDAM SMS pages as if it had a JPF fuze, but we do not have JPF in DCS. In addition to this, the SMS Base and Control page isnt blanking things that it should and the Arming Delay is incorrect.


     On the SMS base page the Function delay should be blanked because we dont have JPF equipped JDAMs, the impact azimuth should be blanked if 0 is entered. On the SMS Control page, the Function delay and the AIR/GND/GND DLY should be blanked aswel. The arming delay should not be a rotary without JPF equipped JDAMS, instead it should be a data entry MFD page that you can enter a value between 0-99.99 seconds. This is because without JPF installed the arming delay isnt actually sent to the bomb but is only used for HUD LOW cues.

I would have attached photos of diagrams but it is against the forum rules.

 

 

On 6/16/2021 at 7:00 PM, NineLine said:

This would be correct, as we plan on adding this in the future, its a new type of fuze for us, and will take a little time to do, but the system is there waiting for it. Thanks.

 

 

On 6/18/2021 at 4:46 PM, Tj1376 said:

OK- im going to create a bug report. If you use the 31v3 on the hornet, it takes two to kill the depot. And while I thought you were wrong about the fuze settings, I even put the 31v3 on instant fuze in the hornet and still it only took two 31v3s to kill it.

 

Really odd that the exact same weapon provides different damage values between the two platforms. 

 

TJ

 

Did this get snuck into the last open beta release? 🙂 

Post this latest patch, I noticed my testing for the F16 started failing the ammo depot again (where 2 GBU31v3 would not kill the ammo depot.) 

Someone then pointed out that no, I was wrong that you had to use GND fuzing (despite our previous conversation where this was not actually implemented.)

Sure enough, loaded the F16 test back up, this time set it to GND and boom, 2 GBU31v3s destroy the ammo depot. I then also tested the inverse, and sure enough, 2 GBU31v3 in AIR no longer destroy the target. 

 

TJ

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1 hour ago, Tj1376 said:

Sure enough, loaded the F16 test back up, this time set it to GND and boom, 2 GBU31v3s destroy the ammo depot. I then also tested the inverse, and sure enough, 2 GBU31v3 in AIR no longer destroy the target. 

AIR is used with the DSU-33 Fuse, you see it on the main menu picture of the F-16
CAT-UXO - Dsu 33 fuze
I would think that if it was set to AIR without the DSU-33 fuse, maybe it's supposed to shatter on impact? Since bombs shattering isn't a thing in DCS, it just does less damage? Also maybe if it was set to AIR, the bomb explodes on impact VS penetrating then exploding inside?


Edited by KIllshot0597
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1 hour ago, KIllshot0597 said:

AIR is used with the DSU-33 Fuse, you see it on the main menu picture of the F-16
CAT-UXO - Dsu 33 fuze
I would think that if it was set to AIR without the DSU-33 fuse, maybe it's supposed to shatter on impact? Since bombs shattering isn't a thing in DCS, it just does less damage? Also maybe if it was set to AIR, the bomb explodes on impact VS penetrating then exploding inside?

 

No idea.

 

All I can tell you is that tracks before this last patch had gbu31v3s in AIR mode defeating the bunkers. After this past patch, they no longer do (they must be in GND mode, although we supposedly do not have the correct fuze for this.) 

 

So probably still all WIP.

 

TJ

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-31v1 with FPF set to air will detonate when DSU gives proximity signal or impact, whichever happens first. If DSU is not present then it won't get the signal and revert to impact. I don't know if DSU presence is detected or not by JPF. It might be the case that AIR option isn't selectable in that case.

 

In either circumstance DSU failure to function won't dud the bomb.

 

What the "fall back" function of the JPF is when set to air burst and DSU fails, I don't know. It might be some factory programmed default or somehow configurable on ground or in air. -31v3 simply shouldn't have the AIR option ever and v1 always and it should never fail (assuming only JPF is modeled).

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