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Problems with Pedals? (Slow response)


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Anyone else having problems using pedals in this chopper? Pushing Left or Right pedal moves the ingame pedals extremely slowly, making the Hind unusable for me. (They work fine in every other module, as well as responding correctly in the control settings panel)😞


Edited by Lurker

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3 minutes ago, wowbagger said:

Did you check if the anti-torque pedal controls are double bound (ie assigned to more than one controller axis)?

 

Yep, no double assignments. It's weird. I push on the rudder pedal, and they move extremely slowly I can't describe it better than that. Inside the control settings panel (the white lines) they move normally.


Edited by Lurker

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they are motorised. turn it off for them to be free swinging.

 

it shows you how in the "trim type" thread.

the video marked as the answer.

 

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3 minutes ago, MadJiitensha said:

Arent that coused by damping system that actually is installed in mi24 to not allow pilot rapid movements?

 

Oh, so they are supposed to move like that? Wow, it's very weird.

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26 minutes ago, Lurker said:

Anyone else having problems using pedals in this chopper? Pushing Left or Right pedal moves the ingame pedals extremely slowly, making the Hind unusable for me. (They work fine in every other module, as well as responding correctly in the control settings panel)😞

 

 

They didn't work for me at all until I cleared the axis for the pedals. I re-assigned and it was working fine after that. However, might not be the same issue because mine didn't respond correctly in the control setting panel.

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I think the OP was referring both to the control input layer (heavily influenced by the 3 different trim systems available.. and they all three are different and three, not two, default behaves different from the no-spring-no-ffb one), the dampeners being set on or off and on top of that the trim system (supra module and outside the in-cockpit fidelity only arbitrarily registering inputs for some -> aka meeeeeeeeee).

I thus far somewhat replicated the very same go-around with the pedals behaving differently with the very same settings and input, making my aiframe spin out of control while trying to apply some, any torque input that neither happened in-fidelity nor supra-module in the input.

Odd.. shrug... but not the end of the world - we just have to find the right combination of settings for our personal peripheral situation and then trace down a potential source issue.
RCtrl+Enter is a must atm imo.
 

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No yanking collective in this one, all the movements have to be slow and methodical, giving everything time to respond is what I have noticed.

Ask Jesus for Forgiveness before you takeoff :pilotfly:!

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2 hours ago, Quadg said:

they are motorised. turn it off for them to be free swinging.

 

it shows you how in the "trim type" thread.

the video marked as the answer.

 

 

oh man this makes pedals so much better thank you, i straight up just cant even taxi with that thing on

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2 hours ago, sadfunda said:

 

oh man this makes pedals so much better thank you, i straight up just cant even taxi with that thing on

 we need force feedback pedals to match the set speed of the motorisation/dampening for this to be useful.

free swinging non feedback pedals quickly get out of synch.

at least they do until we learn the muscle memory to move the pedals at the same speed.

 

i noticed this from the video, before we flew it, and thought it would be a problem.

its also a strangely informative video considering its short and the guy does not say a word.

 

all credit to the other thread for finding it. 

 

in the quick start guide its switch 27. the anti torque damper switch. on the pilot-commander instrument panel.

under the red cover.

 

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4 hours ago, Quadg said:

in the quick start guide its switch 27. the anti torque damper switch. on the pilot-commander instrument panel.

under the red cover.

 

 

Thank You I will try this. This is probably what's causing the issue. 

9 hours ago, NineLine said:

Please check and see if you have the Yaw AP on. Thanks.

 

Please note, this is why we ask for a track.

 

I have no way to check now since I'm at work, I was just messing about in one of the Instant Action missions (Syria, weapons employment). It was a hot start so I would assume, that that's a yes. Had little time to play yesterday, hopefully more today, so I will report back on this and provide a track. I however suspect it could be pilot error, and the slow methodical movement of the anti-torque pedals is how it's supposed to be if it's related to the damper switch. I need to check Wag's video again. 


Edited by Lurker

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The damper switch (off) gives you more control while you are taxiing. However once airborne, you should turn it on( ie, close the cover), and the damping system shouldn't hamper your control of the aircraft at all.  When you said it was unusable, did you mean you couldn't control the aircraft, or just that, looking at the pedals themselves, they didn't seem to respond visually to your inputs as you would expect? 

 

Give it a try when you get home. Turn the damper switch off for taxiing, leave it on for hover check, hover take-off, and flight. Also make sure to enable the YAW Autopilot channel for hover check, hover takeoff,  and flight. It makes a big difference in stability.

 

Oh, and go very easy on the collective, the Autopilot channels need time to react to torque changes and if you move it too quickly you will just shoulder over into a rotor strike.


Edited by wowbagger

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1 hour ago, wowbagger said:

When you said it was unusable, did you mean you couldn't control the aircraft, or just that, looking at the pedals themselves, they didn't seem to respond visually to your inputs as you would expect? 

 

 

Well both I guess, the slow response made it almost impossible for me to get into a stable hover so I thought it was a bug. It's very strange, I thought the pedals would behave like they do in the Mi8 but I guess that's not the case. I think you can chalk this up to pilot error, but I will check again today as I have more time to fly and test. I did add some curvature (15) and a tiny dead-zone (4) to the pedal inputs since that's what I use with pretty much every module, might that affect the dampening channel negatively in some way?

 

I need to also mention that I fly using the MSFFB2 joystick, so using trim on both pedals and cyclic is a no-go for me. Is it possible to fly the Hind without trimming the pedals? (I fly both the Huey and Mi8 in the same way)


Edited by Lurker

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Ok quick question. I've just rewatched Wags Taxi, Take-Off, Hover video. In the video with the YAW AP Channel on, once he gets the chopper light on the wheels and stable, he slowly keeps adding collective, and the YAW AP channel seems to be inputting all the rudder inputs necessary to keep the aircraft stable. Is this what he is doing?

 

More to the point is this what I was doing wrong all along? Fighting the YAW AP channel? Okay, now I really can't wait to get home after work and try this....I think a lot of people were expecting the controls to be very similar to the Mi-8 and they are anything but that...

 

Specs: Win10, i5-13600KF, 32GB DDR4 RAM 3200XMP, 1 TB M2 NVMe SSD, KFA2 RTX3090, VR G2 Headset, Warthog Throttle+Saitek Pedals+MSFFB2  Joystick. 

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  • Solution

Yes, I think you may be over thinking this.

 

The pedals always behave as if they have inertia. Moving your controller pedals quickly from stop to stop will show the in game pedals moving much more slowly, trying to keep up with your inputs.

 

However if you make small, considered movements on your controller, as you would when flying, the in game pedals mirror your movements.

 

Secondly, you are correct. The YAW AP channel will, when enabled, adjust the anti-torque automatically to compensate for changes in torque demanded by the collective - and hence move your pedals without you doing so physically.

 

- Open the mission and set the Hind somewhere - take off hot from ground. Try moving your own pedals stop to stop and watch the in game pedals. Then try moving the pedals in slow, incremental movements and see how the in game ones behave.

 

- Then, with the YAW AP channel active (green light on) try a hover check without touching your own pedals, but increasing the collective very slowly and gradually, giving the YAW AP channel time to adjust. Watch what happens to your pedals.

 

Next disable the YAW AP channel and try the same thing .... then hit restart or end mission. 🔥😆

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@wowbagger thank you, yes this is exactly the kind of test I had in mind! Hopefully it will clear things up, and maybe we can can close this thread. I will try this ASAP and report back, hopefully without trashing another virtual Helicopter in the process 😆

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Update: Okay, after doing the test that @wowbagger suggested, with the yaw AP channel engaged I can bring her up to a hover, land, up to a hover again and take-off without touching the rudder pedals for the most part but....

 

And this is a big but. There is still something strange going on here....Once I build up speed the helicopter doesn't want to weather-wane, with the CTRL+ENTER indicator I can see the Yaw channel applying significant right rudder, which can only be countermanded by the hitting the trim reset button for some reason, even though I don't have rudder trim selected in the Special menu of the Mi24p.

 

So...I want to say that this is not a bug and pilot error but how do I get the Mi24 to behave like it is supposed to behave at high speed? So far it is less stable in forward flight than the Mi8 so I must be doing something wrong.

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It sounds like he ^^ might be getting the same rudder input bug that I described in my post here.

 

 

On 6/16/2021 at 4:39 PM, Quadg said:

they are motorised. turn it off for them to be free swinging.

 

it shows you how in the "trim type" thread.

the video marked as the answer.

 

This needs stickied at the top of the main hind topic listing so we all understand how the trim works, pedal dampening works, and the collective brake works. (Though I still think the rudder input is bugged).


Edited by Relic

 

 

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the problem with the dampening only happening in the virtual pedals is that you cannot trust the feedback from the position of your own feet.

having to look down to check the position of the virtual pedals because you cannot trust your own feet completely defeats the purpose of having pedals in the first place.

which means its not dampening, in the game, its actually just interference.

in real life, and if we had FFB pedals that passed on the dampening to us, then I'm sure it would be helpful.

 

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16 hours ago, Lurker said:

...And this is a big but. There is still something strange going on here....Once I build up speed the helicopter doesn't want to weather-wane, with the CTRL+ENTER indicator I can see the Yaw channel applying significant right rudder, which can only be countermanded by the hitting the trim reset button for some reason, even though I don't have rudder trim selected in the Special menu of the Mi24p...

 

 

 

Trk? :smilewink:

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5 minutes ago, wowbagger said:

 

 

Trk? :smilewink:

 

After messing about some more, I have come to the conclusion that it is indeed Pilot error. Apparently what I didn't realize is that with the YAW AP channel ON, and the dampening ON, the autopilot will move the pedals for the last known trim. So basically even in turns you need to trim the cyclic for the turn, and the pedals will do their thing, all by themselves. It's counterintuitive for most of us, since this is not how it works in the Huey or the HIP. 

 

If you trim all the time, she actually flies very nicely. Alternatively use the trim reset button (or even hold it down) if you want complete manual control of the pedals. 

 

So, thank you again wowbagger for pointing out where I went wrong. Hopefully this thread will be of some use to others. 


Edited by Lurker

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I have come back to this thread, after messing about with the Hind over the weekend. This is NOT how the AP works, at least not in my case. I will turn it YAW AP off for good, as I cannot fly this chopper with YAW AP ON. 

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