SERIOUS PROBLEM - Control along pitch axis

[Klopsik206]

Hello Guys,

 

A lot attempts to deal with it, I am absolutelly frustrated about pitch axis control with LOCK-ON.

 

I am not the only one - see those threads on UBI forum:

 

http://forums.ubi.com/eve/ubb.x?a=tpc&s=400102&f=38610606&m=6901026262

http://forums.ubi.com/eve/ubb.x?a=tpc&s=400102&f=38610606&m=7801027952

http://forums.ubi.com/eve/ubb.x?a=tpc&s=400102&f=17610606&m=61710916&r=92710916#92710916

 

Problem Description:

 

I cannot propertly control pitch axis of the aircraft. I.e. there is no way I can do gentle dive or climb - it looks like aircraft is overreacting, which force me to constant corrections. The result is the plain is violently "bouncing" - which makes almost impossible any precision maneuvers (e.g. landing or refuelling).

 

THIS IS NOT TRIMMING ISSUE - I repeat - THIS IS NOT TRIMMING ISSUE!!!

 

Even if I trim aircraft (I can and I fly in straight line) and I would like to gently move the nose up:

1. I pull the stick VERY GENTLY

2. it gets into steep climb *whoaa!*

3. so I try to correct by pushing stick

4. whoaaa! steep dive!!

5. The result is "bouncing"

 

I've tried everything, with joystick callibration, deadzone, sponse curves - no improvement whatsoever, which makes me belief this is a bug.

 

Any chances to correct it? Perhaps someone knows the solution already?

 

The bottom line is I am not going to pay for 1.1 if the issue is not solved - the game is usuable for me anyway... :cry:

 

I am counting on you!

Klopsik

 

PS.

 

My machine specs:

Athlon XP-M 2500+, Abit AN7, Ati 9800Pro, 1GB RAM DDR400

WindowsXP SP2 + all updates

Saitek Cyborg 3d plugged into USB 2.0

Lock-On 1.02

[yamangman]

There is an issue with trimming and force feedback in the 1.02 patch where the aircraft consistantly pitches down at the same rate no matter your speed/trim.

 

You can fix it by going to the \Lock On\Config directory and opening producer.cfg in notepad and changing forcefeedbackenabled = true; to false;

 

This may also alleviate your problem, but i'm making no promises. :)

[Klopsik206]

You can fix it by going to the \Lock On\Config directory and opening producer.cfg in notepad and changing forcefeedbackenabled = true; to false;

 

I've tried that already - it does not solve the problem :cry:

[bflagg]

You can fix it by going to the \Lock On\Config directory and opening producer.cfg in notepad and changing forcefeedbackenabled = true; to false;

 

I've tried that already - it does not solve the problem :cry:

 

Just a thought, how about pressing "h" key to turn off altitude hold.

Try that one ?? (Ctrl T to disable and recenter trim)

[GGTharos]

Also, have you tried adjusting the pitch curve in LOMAC?

 

My friend bought a new X-52 and had the same problem until he adjusted the curve.

 

Edit: I see you tried the curves. Try'em again if the alt-hold/trim reset/autopilot reset doesn't work. If none of this works, wipe out the game and reinstall.

 

It also might be your stick so I recomend borrowing one from someone to test that as well. This isn't an issue in LOMAC, everyone has well functioning controls AFAIK.

[Klopsik206]

Also, have you tried adjusting the pitch curve in LOMAC?

 

My friend bought a new X-52 and had the same problem until he adjusted the curve.

 

Hi GGTharos- can you be more specific?

I was trying curves adjustments many times without success - do you know what exacly has he changed?

[GGTharos]

For the pitch, just give it more curve. Try the two extremes (far right and far left)

 

Small stick motions with an extreme curve will give you big response on the one that looks more like a diagonal line, while the other extreme will give you very small motion. After you've tried those, try moving the slider into a place where it'll feel more comfy.

[Dark_Sceptre]

From your description of the problem it's hard to tell wether this is a real issue or the actual normal behaviour of the game. I recently flew a couple of Frogfoot missions after a hiatus of several months, so my flight handling was a bit rusty. Whilst reacquainting myself with the flight controls I noticed that there is indeed a strong tendency towards porpoising which requires a fair amount of training to get accustomed to.

 

There is a natural tendency in an airframe in motion to 'bounce back' after a change in attitude - call it a resistance to change. This is caused by the Angle of Attack being nonzero - the airframe is constructed to be in balance when flying straight ahead, and when you pull back on the stick your velocity vector (ie the direction you are in fact flying towards) will not be the same as your aircraft's pointing direction (the guncross). If you do this and then centre the stick, the aircraft will immediately bounce back towards equilibrium because this is the path of least resistance. However this induces a momentum that actually carries your nose _past_ equilibrium, and causes a bounce back etc. And to make matters worse, the instinctive response to this behaviour is to counteract the motion, which causes another bounce. I belive this is called pilot-induced porpoising.

 

Now, this may not be the problem in your case, but the symptoms sound very similar. In any case, the way to avoid this porpoising is to ease your stick into and out of every maneuvre - pull back and hold until your nose is pointing where you want it, then ease the stick back to neutral. It takes a bit of practice, but once you get used to it you stop thinking about it and it becomes second nature.

 

Incidentally, one reason why this behaviour is so noticeable in Lock On compared to may other sims is that none of the planes modeled are Fly-by-Wire. All airframes will bounce to equilibrium when you let go of your stick, but birds like the F-16 and probably most commercial aircraft (not a pilot, wouldn't know) are computer controlled and will interpret your letting go of the stick as "keep the nose here" and hence maintain aileron deflection until the plane is in equilibrium at the attitude you "dialed in" with your stick. Not so in Lock On; these planes are hardwired to your stick and the only input to the control planes is what you specifically do with your stick and rudder, so the pilot must control this behaviour himself.

 

Or am I barking up the wrong forest here? :o

[Klopsik206]

For the pitch, just give it more curve. Try the two extremes (far right and far left)

 

Small stick motions with an extreme curve will give you big response on the one that looks more like a diagonal line, while the other extreme will give you very small motion. After you've tried those, try moving the slider into a place where it'll feel more comfy.

 

I've tried the one more time today - still problem! :cry:

[GGTharos]

Did you also set your deadzone to nil?

 

I'm starting to think its your stick. You can also try uninstalling LOMAC (after you uninstall, make sure you delete the folder, too) and reinstall and patch 1.00->1.02 and see if that doesn't help.

[Klopsik206]

There is a natural tendency in an airframe in motion to 'bounce back' after a change in attitude - call it a resistance to change. This is caused by the Angle of Attack being nonzero - the airframe is constructed to be in balance when flying straight ahead, and when you pull back on the stick your velocity vector (ie the direction you are in fact flying towards) will not be the same as your aircraft's pointing direction (the guncross). If you do this and then centre the stick, the aircraft will immediately bounce back towards equilibrium because this is the path of least resistance. However this induces a momentum that actually carries your nose _past_ equilibrium, and causes a bounce back etc. And to make matters worse, the instinctive response to this behaviour is to counteract the motion, which causes another bounce. I belive this is called pilot-induced porpoising.

 

I am not sure we are talking about the same thing... Maybe...

Let me describe my problem once more:

 

It feels as a kind of HUGE deadzone on the stick:

1. I would like to get a plane into shallow dive

2. I push the stick a little bit - no reaction

3. I push it a little bit more - no reaction

4. I push it even further and I getting into STEEP dive!!!

5. I MUST to correct that, that's too steep, so I pull a bit - no reaction, a bit more - no reaction, a bit more and it getting into STEEP climb!!!

 

It's IMPOSSIBLE to make a very sligh pitch change (like 1/2 - 1 degree) and keep it - you get at least 5-10 degrees change!!!

If you would look on the flight path from the side it looks sinusoidal - that's what I call "bouncing" (perhaps that's not the best word... English is not my mother tongue :oops:).

 

I have no problem with "bouncing" you describe, when you pull stick and than leave it in neutral position the aircraft "bounce" a bit - It's modelled I guess in Il2 Sturmovik as well - but I think this is different issue to the problem I am having. Is it?

 

Does that ring the bell? Are we talking about the same thing? :roll:

[SwingKid]

It feels as a kind of HUGE deadzone on the stick:

1. I would like to get a plane into shallow dive

2. I push the stick a little bit - no reaction

3. I push it a little bit more - no reaction

4. I push it even further and I getting into STEEP dive!!!

5. I MUST to correct that, that's too steep, so I pull a bit - no reaction, a bit more - no reaction, a bit more and it getting into STEEP climb!!!

 

Hmm, this sounds similar to my (just purchased) Cougar. However - Lock On has a dead zone and "curved" axes by default, and the Cougar has its own dead zone that adds to this. So when I observe this behavior, I think it's just a sign that I need to change both the joystick axes and the Lock On options to the settings I really want - it may not be enough to change Lock On options alone. I have no experience with the X-52 though and don't know if it has its own configurable axes, but it sounds like all you are looking for is a more "linear" response.

 

-SK

[Klopsik206]

Did you also set your deadzone to nil?

 

I'm starting to think its your stick. You can also try uninstalling LOMAC (after you uninstall, make sure you delete the folder, too) and reinstall and patch 1.00->1.02 and see if that doesn't help.

 

Yes, deadzone is set to nil in Lomac:

 

 

I will try to reinstall once more .... :?

 

EDIT: Reinstalled - no change. :cry:

[Klopsik206]

Hmm, this sounds similar to my (just purchased) Cougar. However - Lock On has a dead zone and "curved" axes by default, and the Cougar has its own dead zone that adds to this. So when I observe this behavior, I think it's just a sign that I need to change both the joystick axes and the Lock On options to the settings I really want - it may not be enough to change Lock On options alone. I have no experience with the X-52 though and don't know if it has its own configurable axes, but it sounds like all you are looking for is a more "linear" response.

 

I am using Saitek Cyborg 3d USB stick. As far as I know it does not have any separate drivers - it uses standard windows drivers and I can calibrate it in Windows Control Panel. You cannot any deadzones there.

 

Besides, if something would be wrong with joystick drivers it would affect ALL games, while I experience problems in Lomac only.

[GGTharos]

Your curve is set to nothing in this picture. It shoudl give you a violent response to any pitch motion.

 

Move the slider tot he right and it should be smoother ... I keep mine close to the middle, don't rememebr if its to the left or the right a bit - just where I feel it gives me the best response ... and also chekc to make sure about the stuff SK is saying.

[Klopsik206]

Your curve is set to nothing in this picture. It shoudl give you a violent response to any pitch motion.

 

I've tried all positions. Applying more curve makes it actually worse... :cry:

[SwingKid]

I've tried all positions. Applying more curve makes it actually worse...

 

Ok, that's good news... At least applying curve changes something, and in the right direction too... From the way you described the problem, applying more curve should make it worse.

 

A couple of diagnostic suggestions:

 

(a) You might try making a .trk recording of your flying with a linear axis setting. I don't have v1.02 but someone else might have a look and see if it looks simply the non-fly-by-wire effect Dark-Sceptre described. Lock On jets really do fly differently frmo most other sims.

 

(b) Try swapping the axis in Lock On options - put the pitch axis on the joystick's x-y or even on the throttle. This might help detect if the joystick driver isn't applying some curve or dead zone to the pitch axis itself.

 

Is there a similar problem with the roll axis?

 

-SK

[Klopsik206]

Holly S***!!! I finally tracked it down!!!

I am such a retard!!! :lol:

 

The whole issue was "Altitude stabilization" (H key) turned on!!!

When I turn it off everything is back to normal, of course. :oops:

 

Thank you guys for all the efforts :prayer: you're great! From now on you can call me Noob frist class :wink: ,

 

Many thanks again!

:weedman:

[SwingKid]

And here I thought bflagg was just being funny. :shock:

 

-SK

[crazyleggs]

That's just too funny! Gotta love computers.

 

Have a good weekend everyone and look for a Mig-29 @ 40+K waiting to soak up some missiles tonight!

 

crazyleggs

[BigT]

Klopsik,

I am having the exact same problem you have. My joystick is a Logitech Force 3D Pro. Turning off the Force feddback helped a little but did not solve the probem. I also tried all the other suggestions to no avail. I am going to try another joystick to see how it works.

BigT

[Ven]

I've had similar issue with erratic controls. But in my case, it was because I had multiple controllers and they all had its axis assigned to pitch and roll. I had to select each controllers and clear the assignments in options. Just another thing to check.