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Chaff / flares are driving me nuts, feature not ready or it is what it is.


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Hi guys,

 

I do like having full control of my chaffs and flares.

 

How can I drop 1 chaff/1 flare when I pushed the dispenser button. I tried every programs, Man,  ByPass, Semi ... I even tried going in the DED and set 1 CH and 1 FL (Instead of 20) ... same result.

 

Briefly, what need to be done to drop a single chaff and a single flare for each of my button push.

 

Thanks

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Make sure that you set both the burst quantity and the number of salvos to one.

 

For the intricacies of the programming steps, I suggest that you consult the excellent Chuck's Guide for the Viper.


Edited by Cepheus76
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30 minutes ago, Cepheus76 said:

Make sure that you set both the burst quantity and the number of salvos to one.

 

For the intricacies of the programming steps, I suggest that you consult the excellent Chuck's Guide for the Viper.

 

 

Good idea! I read the A10 one, which was excellent. I did not read the F16 one yet for some reason. I will check it out!

 

16 minutes ago, Florence201 said:

Question is, why would you only dispense 1 of each? Whilst the default is far from correct, I C/F is going to get you killed. 
 

 

 

No I would not only dispense one, but I like having control of how many I dispense while dogfighting. Why spending 20 more chaffs/flares when the bogey IR missile just zoomed pass you and is no longer a threat. It is a very common scenario for me these days. I am mostly always BINGO of these.

 

I really like the F5 system, where you simply input the number to dispense and use it. For sure the F16 is more complete, but I think it is overcomplicated.

 

In conclusion, I will check out Chuck's guide and see if I can program that thing to my taste.


Edited by Frag
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Bypass is definitely the way to go if you want full control.

 

I also can't stand wasteful release of CM, which is why I use bypass exclusively.  

Just set the mode to BYP and have both chaff and flare switches up, that'll dispense a single chaff & flare per command.

 

u9CmEjb.jpg

 

If you want chaff only, set the FL switch off (down).  
If you want flare only, set the CH switch off (down).

Disregard betty's "chaff, flare" callouts, she'll say that even when you're only deploying one type of CM.

 

 

I have CH and FL switches + CMS all assigned to the same 4-way hat, so I can quickly select the kind of countermeasure I want and release, without having to look down. 


Edited by Hardcard
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1 hour ago, Hardcard said:

Bypass is definitely the way to go if you want full control.

 

I also can't stand wasteful release of CM, which is why I use bypass exclusively.  

Just set the mode to BYP and have both chaff and flare switches up, that'll dispense a single chaff & flare per command.

 

u9CmEjb.jpg

 

If you want chaff only, set the FL switch off (down).  
If you want flare only, set the CH switch off (down).

Disregard betty's "chaff, flare" callouts, she'll say that even when you're only deploying one type of CM.

 

 

I have CH and FL switches + CM release command all assigned to the same 4-way hat, so I can quickly select the kind of countermeasure I want and release, without having to look down. 

 

 

mmmm weird. Wanted to test this out.

 

I simply started a mission with the F16 already in flight, set the MODE to BYP and pressed the dispenser button. Like 40 were spammed.

 

I attached the track. Any idea what I am doing wrong?

 

 

flare.trk

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Is your control bound to "Countermeasures Management Switch - FWD" or to "CHAFF/FLARE Dispense Button"? The dispense button (aka the slap switch), on the left wall is something like a panic button that dumps a bunch of chaff and flare.  The CMS fwd switch, on the stick, should drop one flare and one chaff if you're in bypass.

 

Edit:  I just tried hitting the slap switch and got the same result as you, that's your issue.


Edited by Chain_1
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8 minutes ago, Chain_1 said:

Is your control bound to "Countermeasures Management Switch - FWD" or to "CHAFF/FLARE Dispense Button"? The dispense button (aka the slap switch), on the left wall is something like a panic button that dumps a bunch of chaff and flare.  The CMS fwd switch, on the stick, should drop one flare and one chaff if you're in bypass.

 

Edit:  I just tried hitting the slap switch and got the same result as you, that's your issue.

 

 

HOLY HELL, you are right. I was using the CHAFF/FLARE Dispense in the CONTROLS section. I linked the FWD switch instead and it worked on the first try.

 

You guys rules! 

 

Thank you all.

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@Frag Use CMS up for whatever program you select (usually program 1), and bind the slap switch to CMS left since CMS left in the current state has no function. Then, you will have full control of 2 programs. Slap switch is program 5 btw. 

 

Then, edit you lua file like @Ignition said above. Basically you only need to edit program 1 and program 5 if you want to release 1 chaff and 1 flare separately. I have my program 1 set to 1 chaff and program 5 set to 1 flare. Save the lua file and reopen DCS then you are good to go. Remember to use the knob to select program to 1 and change the mode to manual when you startup the jet. 


Edited by SCPanda
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16 hours ago, Hardcard said:

Bypass is definitely the way to go if you want full control.

 

I also can't stand wasteful release of CM, which is why I use bypass exclusively.  

Just set the mode to BYP and have both chaff and flare switches up, that'll dispense a single chaff & flare per command.

 

u9CmEjb.jpg

 

If you want chaff only, set the FL switch off (down).  
If you want flare only, set the CH switch off (down).

Disregard betty's "chaff, flare" callouts, she'll say that even when you're only deploying one type of CM.

 

 

I have CH and FL switches + CMS all assigned to the same 4-way hat, so I can quickly select the kind of countermeasure I want and release, without having to look down. 

 

 

Same Here, I always use Bypass..

Regards,

 

Pivot

 

i9-10900K OC'd 5.0 GHz * MSI RTX 2070 Gaming Z * Oculus Rift S * Arctis Pro Wireless Headset * Win10 x64 Home * 64 Gb Ram * TM Warthog Combo & Saitek Pro-Rudders :joystick:

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I am probably the only one with custom chaff/flare programs and using them..? I have mapped the CMS and flick the programs.

- One program for defending against radar missiles solely dispensing chaffs

- One program for defending against IR missiles which quickly dispenses flares, mixed with a chaff just in case
- One program for pre-emptive chaffing if you encounter radar guided AAA or during BVR
- One program for pre-emptive chaff and flares if you enter the WEZ of MANPAD's during a popup or similar
- One emergency program dispensing both chaffs and flares (the oh-fu-button) <--- This is my "bypass", it is the emergency program next to the throttle mapped to a shortcut
Programs are pre-selected for the expected threat type, usually being program 4 as a standard. If things go bad, this isn't wrong.

 

Flying the F-16 usually means you will run out of fuel before you run out of countermeasures, just do reasonable programs with Baileys DCS CMS Editor found here https://www.digitalcombatsimulator.com/de/files/3311389/

and there you go. Remember to put the file back after each update.

The predefined programs aren't very bright and leave a lot of room for improvement since they are all the same.

Real life programs are classified afaik.

But the above should you give an idea on how you can make effective use of the CMS by just mapping 3 functions- CMS up, program up, program down. It is quite sure that you'll need CMS right and CMS down later for the jammer, so it is probably wise to map CMS as a whole now.

 

It probably also depends on if you fight AI or human players. If you go single player, it might be worth keeping flares and chaffs but against humans, you better drop plenty. If you get hit with a full CMS container, you didn't take all your chances for survival at that point.


Edited by TobiasA
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1 hour ago, TobiasA said:

I am probably the only one with custom chaff/flare programs and using them..? I have mapped the CMS and flick the programs.

- One program for defending against radar missiles solely dispensing chaffs

- One program for defending against IR missiles which quickly dispenses flares, mixed with a chaff just in case
- One program for pre-emptive chaffing if you encounter radar guided AAA or during BVR
- One program for pre-emptive chaff and flares if you enter the WEZ of MANPAD's during a popup or similar
- One emergency program dispensing both chaffs and flares (the oh-fu-button) <--- This is my "bypass", it is the emergency program next to the throttle mapped to a shortcut
Programs are pre-selected for the expected threat type, usually being program 4 as a standard. If things go bad, this isn't wrong.

 

Flying the F-16 usually means you will run out of fuel before you run out of countermeasures, just do reasonable programs with Baileys DCS CMS Editor found here https://www.digitalcombatsimulator.com/de/files/3311389/

and there you go. Remember to put the file back after each update.

The predefined programs aren't very bright and leave a lot of room for improvement since they are all the same.

Real life programs are classified afaik.

But the above should you give an idea on how you can make effective use of the CMS by just mapping 3 functions- CMS up, program up, program down. It is quite sure that you'll need CMS right and CMS down later for the jammer, so it is probably wise to map CMS as a whole now.

 

It probably also depends on if you fight AI or human players. If you go single player, it might be worth keeping flares and chaffs but against humans, you better drop plenty. If you get hit with a full CMS container, you didn't take all your chances for survival at that point.

 

 

Wow quite a detailed and impressive setup! If you have few mins, I am pretty sure some would be interested in the details of these program (number dispensed, interval ...)

 

Now about the F16 and the fuel. If you think that the F16 drinks like a drunk on the 4th of july ... my guess is that you did not fly the F5. That thing can barely take-off LOL 

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vor 1 Stunde schrieb Frag:

 

Wow quite a detailed and impressive setup! If you have few mins, I am pretty sure some would be interested in the details of these program (number dispensed, interval ...)

 

Now about the F16 and the fuel. If you think that the F16 drinks like a drunk on the 4th of july ... my guess is that you did not fly the F5. That thing can barely take-off LOL 

I did a formation takeoff with an F5 in the Viggen, me being in the Viggen. The F5 had to carry drop tanks and I had to throttle back to 80% to not overtake it... LOL

I don't have the F5. I think it is a beautiful plane, but I can't fly so many planes. I know the F-16 by heart, can fly the Viggen quite well but don't know all the systems, am a mediocre helicopter pilot who is waiting for the Apache, have the Tomcat which I don't fly often since I'm lacking a human partner at the moment (but I love it) and fly MiG-29 / Su-25T which aren't that complicated. I feel like I can't learn so many planes and bought maps instead. Looking towards the AV-8B or the Mirage, but I fear my head explodes if I do since I still don't really master the Viggen and haven't learned the Tomcat in every detail yet. It would have a bad taste buying another plane when I still have 2 other to master and then buy the Apache.

The key in the F-16 is to be easy on the throttle and know when to go full burner and when to keep it at an easy speed of Mach 0.8. It's like the Viggen- raw power if you want it, the sound barrier is a miracle, but if you do, the fuel flow is insane. I still want to see the fuel pump of the 129 engine before I die.

 

Well as for the programs...

CMS_Setup.png

 

So all programs have a Salvo interval of 3 seconds, and the burst interval is usually 0.75. Unless I am defending against IR missiles, then flares have 0.5. The panic program is a mix, with 4x2 chaff and flares in rapid sequences. All programs run about the same time with chaffs and flares. I have not yet found out if flares in a higher interval in the missiles end-game have a higher chance for success, but even in the Su-25T i use a similar "program" but pressing insert / delete keys and it works quite well. Pop three of a kind, wait a few seconds, pop another three. However, in the FC3 planes I tend to panic out in endgame especially in the Su-25T where kinetic defense of a missile is as possible as a wheelchair entering earth orbit and just blast away all I've got.

It's a rule-of-the-thumb thing, but it conserves countermeasures while still spanning the most critical seconds during a popup or when going through the vertical during entering a kinetic defense (I always chaff / flare on my way during the Split-S if things get really tight). I usually have program 4 preselected, in dogfights you can go #2 prior of the merge and use the panic button for any ARH or SARH launches if someone should have run out of heaters.

So 1 + 2 are missile defense, 3 and 4 are preemptive and the panic button is a smaller sequence that gives you time to select the correct program. If you still live.

CMDS_ALE47.lua

 

I am still thankful for AAA using tracer ammo, because tracers work both ways.

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17 hours ago, TobiasA said:

I am probably the only one with custom chaff/flare programs and using them..? I have mapped the CMS and flick the programs.

- One program for defending against radar missiles solely dispensing chaffs

- One program for defending against IR missiles which quickly dispenses flares, mixed with a chaff just in case
- One program for pre-emptive chaffing if you encounter radar guided AAA or during BVR
- One program for pre-emptive chaff and flares if you enter the WEZ of MANPAD's during a popup or similar
- One emergency program dispensing both chaffs and flares (the oh-fu-button) <--- This is my "bypass", it is the emergency program next to the throttle mapped to a shortcut
Programs are pre-selected for the expected threat type, usually being program 4 as a standard. If things go bad, this isn't wrong.

 

Flying the F-16 usually means you will run out of fuel before you run out of countermeasures, just do reasonable programs with Baileys DCS CMS Editor found here https://www.digitalcombatsimulator.com/de/files/3311389/

and there you go. Remember to put the file back after each update.

The predefined programs aren't very bright and leave a lot of room for improvement since they are all the same.

Real life programs are classified afaik.

But the above should you give an idea on how you can make effective use of the CMS by just mapping 3 functions- CMS up, program up, program down. It is quite sure that you'll need CMS right and CMS down later for the jammer, so it is probably wise to map CMS as a whole now.

 

It probably also depends on if you fight AI or human players. If you go single player, it might be worth keeping flares and chaffs but against humans, you better drop plenty. If you get hit with a full CMS container, you didn't take all your chances for survival at that point.

 

If you prefer, you can find a slightly more integrated CMS Editor here: https://www.digitalcombatsimulator.com/de/files/3312680/
It even puts the files back automatically after updates.


Edited by Bailey
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