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AG Radar (SEA) Handoff to TGP


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Posted (edited)

Potential bug, but may be related to other radar/TGP bugs. In SEA mode tracking a ship with radar, the TGP appears to lock-on to the  radar target; however, when the radar loses lock during target overflight, the TGP also loses lock. This occurs so late in an LGB weapon delivery procedure that reacquiring lock with the TGP is seldom achievable. A procedure that works is to switch SOI to the TGP DDI earlier, whereupon the TGP immediately loses lock. Pilot can then reacquire lock with the TGP and deliver LGB normally.

 

Another strange behavior is that when SURF radar is assigned to right DDI and TGP to left, TGP can acquire lock on a med sized ship no further than 10 miles. With TGP on right and radar on left, TGP will acquire the target at 15 miles. I have repeated this behavior many times. Track attached. DCS 2.7.1.7029

SEA GBU Lost Lock.trk


Edited by Habu_69
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27 minutes ago, Habu_69 said:

Potential bug, but may be related to other radar/TGP bugs. In SEA mode tracking a ship with radar, the TGP appears to lock-on to the  radar target; however, when the radar loses lock during target overflight, the TGP also loses lock. This occurs so late in an LGB weapon delivery procedure that reacquiring lock with the TGP is seldom achievable. A procedure that works is to switch SOI to the TGP DDI earlier, whereupon the TGP immediately loses lock. Pilot can then reacquire lock with the TGP and deliver LGB normally.

 

Another strange behavior is that when SURF radar is assigned to right DDI and TGP to left, TGP can acquire lock on a med sized ship no further than 10 miles. With TGP on right and radar on left, TGP will acquire the target at 15 miles. I have repeated this behavior many times. Track attached. DCS 2.7.1.7029

SEA GBU Lost Lock.trk 378.72 kB · 1 download

 

 

Hmm, I have to check this out for myself (the left/right DDI thing)

As far as TGP loosing lock along with radar...  was TGP in point track/auto before the radar hit gimbals?

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Posted (edited)

I just saw this, or something similar! 

 

-SEA==>FTT track Right DDI (vector pointer on contact showing speed and direction)

-FLIR in LEFT DDI

- Slew FLIR  ahead of the ship and manipulate SCS until PTRK, Designate. Radar track turns to a + over the target. Strangely, it continues to FOLLOW the brick.

- DROP GBU.. 

- PTRK gets lost. I honestly didn't notice if the RADAR track dropped at the same time as the HUD label showed Designation by FLIR, and in the Radar DDI there was a + over the target NOT the SEA Track with the direction Vector so it SEEMED to be following FLIR instead of SEA tracking at that point.

 

Of course, trying to UNDESIGNATE lost the target for the FLIR as well.

 

The BUG that I was going to report was that when I had the PTRK in the FLIR (LITENING) the CENTROID was NOT on the ship but a little off to the FRONT or REAR depending on the direction.  When I did manage to drop GBU with the PTRK intact, they splashed into water JUST where the PTRK was looking.  I went to record a TRK to report, but subsequent times, the PTRK kept DROPPING before impact.   This turned out to be a blessing in disguise as I could MANUALLY hold the LASER on the spot I actually wanted to hit until Impact!!

 

 


Edited by Recluse
SEA vs. Radar Track
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13 minutes ago, Gripes323 said:

As far as laser guided bombs go, I wouldn't fly directly toward the target after release. Turn away slightly to give the FLIR and LTD/R some room.

 Yes, always. Forgot to add that I also did a TDC Depress after the PTRK to be sure the laser was on the target. HONESTLY I didn't think this SHOULD be necessary as the FLIR is already following the moving target, but when I don't the bombs always fall near the point of the original track and miss by a lot.

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Gripes323 said:

 

Hmm, I have to check this out for myself (the left/right DDI thing)

As far as TGP loosing lock along with radar...  was TGP in point track/auto before the radar hit gimbals?

I believe TGP was in PTRK with |< >| symbology. If pilot tries to change it, tho, TGP drops track as soon as TGP DDI becomes SOI. You can see this in the .trk file.

 

39 minutes ago, Gripes323 said:

As far as laser guided bombs go, I wouldn't fly directly toward the target after release. Turn away slightly to give the FLIR and LTD/R some room.

Well, no way the radar is NOT going to exceed its gimbals before the weapon makes impact, so the standard turn-away has no bearing on this issue.


Edited by Habu_69
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So here is a track showing what I meant about the Centroid being off.

 

Point Track on the big ship. Designate, and the cross is JUST off the ship.  Kept the PTRK throughout the GBU flight. Impacts exactly at the designation, and misses.

 

I did this in VR so not sure how the track will play back.

Flir centroid off.trk

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Posted (edited)

I can't d/l your track now but... in my fairly recent GBU10 deliveries I didn't see any issues (one of the very few areas w/o problems:closedeyes:)

I used Litening pod.

The tanker ship was locked in SEA mode from a long distance.

Once at around 15nm, I switched priority to the pod (CCD image). Before I even attempted to get PTRK, I depressed TDC on the center of the ship (INR). When this was done, the radar was no longer driving my pod. I could see the brick and the cross roughly collocated. The pod was stabilized on the ship in INR. 

I bumped the SCS toward the pod twice and the PTRK was active. The center of the lock was more or less where it's supposed to be. I was approaching the ship head on, perhaps if the ship was crossing my course at an angle the centroid would have been off, I don't know.

Turning away might not matter that much in this case but pointing the nose down slightly to allow the Pod hang in there for a few more seconds did. I was lasing manually. The drop was from 26k feet.

When I turned back toward the ship again, the pod was dead on the target, still tracking in PTRK, in the center.

 

Slightly OT:  I was disappointed with meager explosion of the the tanker. 4x GBU10.  No secondary... empty tanker, damn it!


Edited by Gripes323
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Yeah, in the track, I was oblique, very near broadside. I tried again approaching longitudinally and yes, the cross was on the ship that time. I didn't try an initial designation followed by PTRK. Good idea to establish the designation first. I have been used to the "lead the target" to achieve PTRK which makes sense for smaller vehicles, but not necessary for a big honking ship!!

 

I was also disappointed at how little damage 4xGBU12 or 2x GBU-16 did to that ship (when they hit). 4xGBU-12 amidships did 7% damage.  I also rearmed and fired 2 Harpoons and two Mavericks, all of which were shot down by Gunfire 😞

 

Also it seemed that as soon as I put the TDC on the FLIR, the radar dropped the lock, (CROSS but no FTT) and I got a stabilized diamond in the FLIR that the ship was moving out from under until I slewed to capture the PTRK. I don't remember that happening in previous patches.

 

 

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Some of this behavior (FLIR assuming designation priority). IN previous builds the Radar retained track unless heroic measures were taken to get the FLIR in priority.

 

 

In my last several attempts, similar to the TRK I posted, the FLIR did maintain the PTRK when the radar went out of GIMBAL. The FLIR losing PTRK  (for me) seems to have been due to something else.

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Posted (edited)

I devised a procedure for handing off radar SEA target to TGP that works:

1. Set up AG, GBU for ship attack. Stores in LDDI, surface radar in RDDI.

2. Radar SEA mode in RDDI. Find and designate target (SCS right).

3. Switch radar to LDDI. TDC pri to LDDI.

4. Invoke FLIR on RDDI. Should be tracking radar target. Go narrow FOV. Keep TDC priority on LDDI.

5. Arm laser.

6. At about 15 NM, SCS right X3 quickly. Moves TDC to RDDI and reacquires moving target track  |  |  symbol on TGP.

7. Follow HUD cues to deploy LGB.

 

This works consistently for me, but may not be RL protocol. Track attached.

SEA GBU Success.trk


Edited by Habu_69
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Yep. Works well. I do the same with FLIR in the other DDI. The trick for me was Gripes' suggestion to designate the ship and then Point Track (AUTO TRACK in ATFLIR). I was hung up on leading the target for a point track like a vehicle, but for the big ship it wasn't necessary. Got the POINT TRACK and the LASER spot right in the middle of the deck.

 

Still think it is a BUG that the Radar drops track when you put the TDC in the FLIR, but it makes this handoff process much easier.

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