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VR performance very disappointing looks nothing like ED videos


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Hi all, I got the latest version of this game. Got a g2 reverb HP 32GIG of ram, 1tb SSD i9 9900k 2070 super
I have been playing around with my VR settings for days.

I really don't understand no matter what I do the game looks terrible in VR. It's seriously not worth getting VR for this game you will be thoroughly disappointed.

 

 

The amount of shimmering in this game is very disappointing flying over towns you will notice flickering over towns, mountains, clouds, When you are on ground level Grass trees, walls power lines flicker making it look so fake!

 

Loading in game has a shudder and flicker effect which nearly induces epilepsy.

 

What kind of computer do you need to have clear graphics in VR. The amount of false videos I see online being posted look nothing like it does in VR.

I have read even people with 3090s are getting bad fps and bad VR performance.

 

I strongly suggest ED put some solid resources to fix this. I don't know what computers you have when you do your testing on VR but the average person doesn't have a $10,000 rig. 

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there are a lot of things that contribute to the VR experience; there are a number of posts out there to help you with this, including my own, and Thuds Guide and many many more, you can get a very good experience:

 

Bignewy's Reverb G2 settings for high frame rate - Virtual Reality - ED Forums (eagle.ru)

 

Thud's VR4DCS

 

 

hope that helps 

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VR Stuff:   My Settings for 3090 and G2  My Settings for 1080ti  Shaders MOD for VR  My variant of Kegetys mod with clear water and also IC PASS for current beta & stable, Patch Status

 

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Tried these settings amongst others the game does not look good in VR at all.

It's a real shame I was looking forward to playing this in VR I have looked at 12 videos online. 

No matter how much I play with the PD settings, Steam VR settings every single combination including the NVIDIA settings I get flickering.

I think everyone agrees VR is not suitable for this game.

 

 

 

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Not everyone, if you are getting flickering, you might want to make sure you are at 90hz, leave pd at 1.0… always.

What are you current settings

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VR Stuff:   My Settings for 3090 and G2  My Settings for 1080ti  Shaders MOD for VR  My variant of Kegetys mod with clear water and also IC PASS for current beta & stable, Patch Status

 

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I will post them on here soon. I should rephrase that. It's not really flickering it's shimmering. Fences, trees, roads shimmer. I think that's my biggest gripe with it overall.

 

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Shimmering, is unfortunately a thing, caused by aliasing, you can either live with it, or turn on MSAA x2 which helps a bit and  lower other settings accordingly.  The problem with videos is that they are recorded from the 2d mirror which does not get the same shimmer. 

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VR Stuff:   My Settings for 3090 and G2  My Settings for 1080ti  Shaders MOD for VR  My variant of Kegetys mod with clear water and also IC PASS for current beta & stable, Patch Status

 

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im not sure its something that ED can do much about per-say... TAA might offer improvements, but, it would be offset with  a likely performance hit on the existing DX11 architecture , to introduce it they would likely need to improve performance first, and thats not a trivial job... and we have been wait for a long time (thats not a judgment, but ED  are also resource constrained) the problem is complex and has many moving parts to it, complicated further by some of the limits of VR/CPU/GPU/hardware. As you note the market for 10k PC's is small (and likely not the market that ED could afford to address).

 

I must admit the shimmering doesn't bother me much, and i did run the G1 on a 1080ti without MSAA for ages and really enjoyed the game, indeed i still can, but what I enjoy and what you enjoy are very different things its personal, the guides will help you get the best out of your hardware...but there will  be some shimmer... try MSAA, try PD 1, and in steam  on your GPU i would recommend that you set the headset at 50% (which is close to physical native) i would turn the majority of shadows off or flat at most, and i would recommend ... have a look at my old 1080ti guide and see.

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SOFTWARE: Microsoft Windows 10 Pro x64, VoiceAttack & VIACOM PRO, TacView

VR Stuff:   My Settings for 3090 and G2  My Settings for 1080ti  Shaders MOD for VR  My variant of Kegetys mod with clear water and also IC PASS for current beta & stable, Patch Status

 

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I had the feeling that this shimmering of landscape, buildings etc. have got worse with the latest updates for 2.7. Tried some flying on the Syrian map last weekend and had to crank up MSAA to 4x to get slightly rid of it - and this really tanks on the FPS even with just the resolution of a RiftS and not to think about getting a VR system with much better resolution. But without those high MSAA settings I couldn't stand this shimmering at all.

 

With my 5700XT now I am rather in the same GPU performance line like the OPs 2070 (maybe a little lower because of the bad driver optimizations and support for VR on the AMD side). And if one looks at how much even RTX 3090 users struggle in getting decent performance and graphics in DCS, I support the demand for a complete overhaul of the graphics system - else I see no bright future at least in VR for DCS as the prices for GPUs just rise further and further and I don't see any limit in the near future, but I get more the impression that those prices will rise even further so that PC gaming will come to an end because not much players would and could afford those prices any longer.

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18 minutes ago, schmiefel said:

as the prices for GPUs just rise further and further and I don't see any limit in the near future, but I get more the impression that those prices will rise even further so that PC gaming will come to an end because not much players would and could afford those prices any longer.

 

Local shop came with 3080Ti prices...☹️. Well, not out of my wallet.

 

image.png

 

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one thing i will say is some mods (the VR Reshade) increases shimmering by a large amount.

 

A lot depends on your definition of good, mine is 45FPS/frame times less than 20ms.. you can hit that on a wide variety of hardware, and a rift s should be no problem at all..   but i would not pick up a 3080TI at those prices, thats more than i paid for my 3090 ... quite a lot more.

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VR Stuff:   My Settings for 3090 and G2  My Settings for 1080ti  Shaders MOD for VR  My variant of Kegetys mod with clear water and also IC PASS for current beta & stable, Patch Status

 

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Posted (edited)
28 minutes ago, Lange_666 said:

Local shop came with 3080Ti prices...☹️. Well, not out of my wallet.

That's what I mean - same situation in Germany.  If the GPU suppliers keep that price rush I am done with PC gaming and flight simulation after over 35 years. And even if I could afford to spent that much money I never would  pay such prices for hardware that gets obsolete within 2..3 years. And game developers should really think about what this will do to their business if it keeps that way... only a small and rich elite of players with high incomes would afford investing in this in the future. Maybe those are enough for some companies to feed their business, but I doubt that ED/DCS could exist just from some rich customers...

15 minutes ago, speed-of-heat said:

A lot depends on your definition of good, mine is 45FPS/frame times less than 20ms.. you can hit that on a wide variety of hardware, and a rift s should be no problem at all

well, with a RTX 3090 in my PC I wouldn't struggle for FPS with decent graphics at least with the Rift S - but everything below a RTX 3080TI seems to struggle even with just a RiftS.

 

Plus: I tried some of those shader mods because some people stated that it would look better or at least sharper with them, but as you stated: not only tank those more on the already low FPS but some make shimmering worse, too.


Edited by schmiefel
typo fixed

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8 minutes ago, schmiefel said:

 

 

Plus: I tried some of those shader mods because some people stated that it would look better or at least sharper with them, but as you stated: not only tank those more on the already low FPS but some make shimmering worse, too.

 

there are a number of shader mods:

 

the Reshade Mod, does make things sharper, but increases shimmer, and impacts performance negatively 

the VR Shaders mod, will increase performance considerably:

VR Shaders mod for better VR experience - DCS Mods - ED Forums (eagle.ru)

 

 

if you can afford a few more ms, then my variant turns the water clear:

 

and mustangs mods as well:

 

DCS 2.7 shader edits - DCS Mods - ED Forums (eagle.ru)

 

also improves performance and look.

 

But so many people tie themselves in knots over this stuff...  go back to basics , rename your current saved games folder, pick a level (try the VR recommended settings that DCS) provides, measure what you have and then change one thing, in windows, in bios, in nvidia, or game setting and measure again.  As i said i got a perfectly enjoyable experience on a 1080ti... I had a 1070ti when i had my first HMD (Oddessy +) and again it was enough for me ... YMMV, BIGNEWY runs on a 2080TI.   But if your expectation is that it will be as clear a picture as a 2d monitor VR will fail , thats not a realistic expectation today... and i have to say  the fault is not ED's but just where we are in terms of hardware...

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SOFTWARE: Microsoft Windows 10 Pro x64, VoiceAttack & VIACOM PRO, TacView

VR Stuff:   My Settings for 3090 and G2  My Settings for 1080ti  Shaders MOD for VR  My variant of Kegetys mod with clear water and also IC PASS for current beta & stable, Patch Status

 

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12 minutes ago, schmiefel said:

only a small and rich elite of players with high incomes would afford investing in this in the future. Maybe those are enough for some companies to feed their business, but I doubt that DCS could exist just form some rich customers...

 

When I read the forum and all the complaints of the last months, I come to the conclusion that ED might have already chosen their way... all quiet on the performance
optimization front.

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Posted (edited)
17 minutes ago, speed-of-heat said:

But so many people tie themselves in knots over this stuff...  go back to basics , rename your current saved games folder, pick a level (try the VR recommended settings that DCS) provides, measure what you have and then change one thing, in windows, in bios, in nvidia, or game setting and measure again.  As i said i got a perfectly enjoyable experience on a 1080ti... I had a 1070ti when i had my first HMD (Oddessy +) and again it was enough for me ... YMMV, BIGNEWY runs on a 2080TI.   But if your expectation is that it will be as clear a picture as a 2d monitor VR will fail , thats not a realistic expectation today... and i have to say  the fault is not ED's but just where we are in terms of hardware...

First, thanks for your own mod creations and recommendations - will try them in the next days. I recently tried this new universal shader mod that you mentioned first and its true that it makes things a bit sharper but seem to increase shimmering - at least on the Syrian map compared to Caucaus its much worse.

 

Then, I already have started from a fresh new base with setting up my new primary PC. I don't need 80 FPS as 40 FPS plus motion smoothing seems to work quite well with the Rift S. But what really sets me up are those flickering and shimmering graphics. Besides the still weak VR and graphics hardware it seems to be also a thing of the DCS graphics engine that doesn't perform and render that well in VR compared to other engines. And I am very confident that this won't get improved at all without basic changes of the graphics system to use Vulkan and / or DX12 and a much better optimized rendering system that utilizes modern CPU and GPU technology much better. And with 2.7 beta it seems that it took again one step further in the weather engine and graphics, but two steps back in overal graphics quality with more shimmer / flicker and worse performance at least in VR.


Edited by schmiefel
typo fixed

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Posted (edited)

There are multiple problems at the same time. Shimmering is indeed bad, and getting rid of it unfortunately requires some way of AA, with temporal AA usually being the best for VR which is seldom implemented because SSAA or MSAA work best for non-VR and often have hardware support.

 

Lucky bastard me now has a Vive Pro 2, but unlucky bastard me now also looked at the price tag for new GPU. Talk about sticker shock. With my 2080Ti I can drive the Pro 2 well enough, given that I reduce oversampling to 1:1 (i.e. no oversampling), but shimmering is even more noticeable on higher resolutions than on my previous Pro (1). Since I'm not prepared to overpay a scalper for a 3080Ti (or 2080Ti to try my luck at SLI), I'll have to live with some compromise, because -- flying non-VR simply is a no go for anyone who's ever done VR. And not flying is also no option. Since VR is only a tiny sliver of the general gamer base, I expect only a modicum of progress on this front. 

 


Edited by cfrag
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4 minutes ago, cfrag said:

Lucky bastard me now has a Vive Pro 2, but unlucky bastard me now also looked at the price tag for new GPU.

That's what keeps me most from buying any new VR hardware as I know that my 5700XT (as any AMD driven GPU) won't be very useful in getting better graphics without getting a slide show, too - at least in DCS the weapon of choice for decent VR graphics seem to be NVIDIA and their top models (with over the top prices even for the lower end GPUs) 🤬

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thanks for the settings @speed-of-heat.

I think I am just going to revert to Track IR. I know the immersion in VR is amazing but I think this game has a long way to go before VR is decent.

 

I spent 4800 + a VR headset worth  a 1000 AUD on my pc last year with the expectation at least to get a good experience out of this but from what I read no one really has got that perfect look. I guess my expectations are to high but then again it's 2021 and you would think that they would have it right.

 

This game just looks like it's built on the old Flaming Cliffs engine they need to revamp it and stop taking 128dollars per Jet.

 

I just played Syria with a buddy of mine and literally he looked like a shimmering fly about 500metres out. I will say it straight out the game is crap in VR and ED really need to take it seriously because every week I log in and less and less people are playing.

 

The eye strain, shimmering, low fps, quality of the clouds, all need to be addressed as priorities for VR users because we are leaving in droves.

 

 

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Posted (edited)
16 hours ago, schmiefel said:

I had the feeling that this shimmering of landscape, buildings etc. have got worse with the latest updates for 2.7. Tried some flying on the Syrian map last weekend and had to crank up MSAA to 4x to get slightly rid of it - and this really tanks on the FPS even with just the resolution of a RiftS and not to think about getting a VR system with much better resolution. But without those high MSAA settings I couldn't stand this shimmering at all.

 

With my 5700XT now I am rather in the same GPU performance line like the OPs 2070 (maybe a little lower because of the bad driver optimizations and support for VR on the AMD side). And if one looks at how much even RTX 3090 users struggle in getting decent performance and graphics in DCS, I support the demand for a complete overhaul of the graphics system - else I see no bright future at least in VR for DCS as the prices for GPUs just rise further and further and I don't see any limit in the near future, but I get more the impression that those prices will rise even further so that PC gaming will come to an end because not much players would and could afford those prices any longer.

I can absolutely concur with this. I am seeing shimmer now where there was none before. Even on NTTC, looking toward the shoreline along the lakes.

 

TBH, the bouncy clouds were far less of an eyesore and performance drain than what we have now.

 

As to the graphics system... it IS it's own bottleneck. I am barely able to scrape out anymore visual/graphical improvement with a Radeon 6900XT than my previous GTX 1080ti. Every other game is night and day in comparison and performance.

I can only hope that somewhere out there in ED land, there are a few mad lads giddy with themselves after having ported DCS over to Vulkan or Unreal Engine 5.

 

 

Edit:
Seems my 6900XT has had a change of heart with a driver rollback. I really hadn't even noticed before but, apparently the most recent driver combined with my moderate OC preset was causing the card to run hotter than before. To verify, I reinstalled the most recent and noted it was running at 75* whilst running DCS. With the older driver, same fan settings, preset etc. I was back to 51-54*

I assume it was ignoring the fan curve I had in that preset or miscalculating the max freq.

I'm back to 21.41 for the record


Edited by Sr.
Driver Fix?
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4 hours ago, THERION said:

I come to the conclusion that ED might have already chosen their way... all quiet on the performance optimization front.

Name me one "simulation" over the last 25 years that had any decent performance increase after a graphical (read better looking) update.

I can't name one.

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Really, you mean those IL-2 subversions à la Cliffs Of Dover that were in fact released as alpha versions...

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12 hours ago, speed-of-heat said:

im not sure its something that ED can do much about per-say... TAA might offer improvements, but, it would be offset with  a likely performance hit on the existing DX11 architecture , to introduce it they would likely need to improve performance first, and thats not a trivial job...

Indeed. Good post and analysis. 👍

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22 hours ago, Lange_666 said:

Really, you mean those IL-2 subversions à la Cliffs Of Dover that were in fact released as alpha versions...


No. Cliffs of Dover and Tobruk are not in VR. I am talking about the Great Battles series. Stalingrad, Moskow, Kuban, Bodenplatte WOII and also WOI Flying circus. Also has tank module and two player usable mobile AA guns (one released). In development Normandy and Flying Circus 2 (same engine just more planes). Oh and all the Battles tie together. So want to take on a Spitfire with a Fokker Dr I, you can. 
 

Hope in didn’t violate any rules here.

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On 6/6/2021 at 11:35 PM, VRuser187 said:

Tried these settings amongst others the game does not look good in VR at all.

It's a real shame I was looking forward to playing this in VR I have looked at 12 videos online. 

No matter how much I play with the PD settings, Steam VR settings every single combination including the NVIDIA settings I get flickering.

I think everyone agrees VR is not suitable for this game.

 

 

 

 

2070 super is your main problem. 

On 6/7/2021 at 4:14 AM, THERION said:

 

When I read the forum and all the complaints of the last months, I come to the conclusion that ED might have already chosen their way... all quiet on the performance
optimization front.

 

They are probably putting all their eggs in "coming soon (tm)" vulkan engine.

 

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