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US NAVY CIWS Phalanx just wasting its ammo, never realoading.


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Posted (edited)

Phalanx have now on current OB three major issues which make it just garbage on the deck:

1) Phalanx never realoading - IRL can be done from 5 - 10 minutes.

2) Phalanx not counting any turns of the target into its lead angle calculation - it never can hit poping missile, until it fly straight before impacting hull of ship.

3) Phalanx start to shoot from 3NM distance, which is IRL max WEZ. This range is unfortunately totaly inefficient, because at collision point with missile, bullets will have such huge spread, that chance of hit is just pathetic. Range of WEZ like 1,5-2NM have much more sence and is much more efficient in term of used ammo to kill incoming missile.

Currnet Phalanx state in DCS can be nicely depicted looking on following picture, where only single missiles was hit Phalanx in range of 2300ft from targeted ship (CG-47) 😩 , 2 missiles hit by SM_2 (RIM-7) Seasparrow, 1 hit by RIM-166, 1 reached the hull of ship. Again, Phalanx cant reload, so one more attack like this, and Phalanx  is out of ammo till the end of mission.

CIWS_Lead_BUG.PNG


Edited by GumidekCZ
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I would add:

 

1. Phalanx IRL do not shoot in bursts.  They continue to fire on the target until it's no longer possible.

2. Phalanx dispersion IRL is set to 1-2 mil.   The dispersion of CIWS in-game is far too much IMHO.

3. To give a little context into the capabilities here, Phalanx is being replaced IRL (with things like SeaRAM or Goalkeeper) in part because the expected intercept range vs. a supersonic missile is so close to the ship that there's a very good chance of the missile debris causing significant damage to the ship as it continue to fly.

4. No guns tracking algorithm in DCS operates well, this includes player's aircraft gunsights.  

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Posted (edited)
7 hours ago, GGTharos said:

I would add:

 

2. Phalanx dispersion IRL is set to 1-2 mil.   The dispersion of CIWS in-game is far too much IMHO.

 

Yes it is, navy Phalanx fires 20x102mm APDS projectiles, not whatever generic 20mm rounds the DCS one is firing. 

 

If this is anything to go by (obviously not the best source, but it is on the GD website) Mk149 APDS should have at most a 2 mil dispersion, and Mk244 1 mil (the website quotes Mk244 as having 40% of the dispersion of Mk149) - much tighter than it is currently.

 

Both Mk149 and Mk244 also aren't fitted with tracers, let alone yellow ones.

 

Quote

3. To give a little context into the capabilities here, Phalanx is being replaced IRL (with things like SeaRAM or Goalkeeper) in part because the expected intercept range vs. a supersonic missile is so close to the ship that there's a very good chance of the missile debris causing significant damage to the ship as it continue to fly.

 

This isn't really applicable to DCS unless missiles get a more advanced damage model (right now one hit and that's it, the missile is gone), on top of a more advanced ship damage model.

 

Quote

4. No guns tracking algorithm in DCS operates well, this includes player's aircraft gunsights.  

 

This too, though I think it should also be said that none of the Phalanx's sensors are defined in DCS at all.

 

Furthermore, the tracking RADAR of Phalanx (which is J/Ku band (new NATO/old (IEEA) nomenclature respectively) is also able to track rounds leaving the barrel, allowing Phalanx to make further corrections to its aim.

 

Not that DCS models sensors with enough fidelity for the frequency/wavelength to make a difference (should be higher resolution 


Edited by Northstar98

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Posted (edited)

Thanks for support, I hope that somebody from ed will soon take closer look on not only US phalanx system. At the same time also improving Russian Kashtan/Kortik and it's 30mm gatling gun having same problems. Together with improving accuracy and sensors of RIM-166. US fleet will finally have a chance to defend self through the mission, not only for single attack and after that being just floating piece of scrap metal.


Edited by GumidekCZ
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4 hours ago, GumidekCZ said:

Thanks for support, I hope that somebody from ed will soon take closer look on not only US phalanx system. At the same time also improving Russian Kashtan/Kortik and it's 30mm gatling gun having same problems. Together with improving accuracy and sensors of RIM-166. US fleet will finally have a chance to defend self through the mission, not only for single attack and after that being just floating piece of scrap metal.

 

 

Don't forget, we don't have defensive manoeuvring for ships at all - they just blindly follow waypoints. But another thing to consider is that we have no soft-kill measures for ships, there aren't any decoys nor is there any ECM.

 

The only ECM that ships have is with the Viggen, where they all (including ships without ECM systems) blast out noise, it doesn't do anything but make them more obvious, and seeing as no RADAR in DCS has sidelobes (player or otherwise) you can't do angle deception. 

Modules I own: F-14A/B, F/A-18C, Supercarrier, F-16CM, AJS-37, F-5E-3, MiG-21bis, Ka-50, A-10C (+ A-10C II), UH-1H, Mi-8MTV2, P-47D, P-51D, FC3, MiG-15bis, Yak-52, CA, C-101, Hawk

Terrains I own: Syria, The Channel, SoH

 

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9 hours ago, Northstar98 said:

Don't forget, we don't have defensive manoeuvring for ships at all - they just blindly follow waypoints. But another thing to consider is that we have no soft-kill measures for ships, there aren't any decoys nor is there any ECM.

 

The only ECM that ships have is with the Viggen, where they all (including ships without ECM systems) blast out noise, it doesn't do anything but make them more obvious, and seeing as no RADAR in DCS has sidelobes (player or otherwise) you can't do angle deception. 

Northstar98, all types of decoys and defensive maneuvering would be great, if the ship can angle itself to bring as many weapons against the threat with minimising any possible damge by enemy missiles/projectiles. But this would be very long run for ED team I think.

This topic is about Phalanx system, so lets stick with it 😉

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2 hours ago, GumidekCZ said:

Northstar98, all types of decoys and defensive maneuvering would be great, if the ship can angle itself to bring as many weapons against the threat with minimising any possible damge by enemy missiles/projectiles. But this would be very long run for ED team I think.

This topic is about Phalanx system, so lets stick with it 😉

 

Sure, I was just saying this because it is in part a reason why CIWS end up running out of ammunition.

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Modules I own: F-14A/B, F/A-18C, Supercarrier, F-16CM, AJS-37, F-5E-3, MiG-21bis, Ka-50, A-10C (+ A-10C II), UH-1H, Mi-8MTV2, P-47D, P-51D, FC3, MiG-15bis, Yak-52, CA, C-101, Hawk

Terrains I own: Syria, The Channel, SoH

 

System (RIP my old PC): Dell XPS 15 9570 w/ Intel i7-8750H, NVIDIA GTX 1050Ti Max-Q, 16GB DDR4, 500GB Samsung PM871 SSD (upgraded with 1TB Samsung 970 EVO Plus SSD)

 

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