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Remove obstruction in front of RWR


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Posted (edited)

Not everybody has a 6DOF headtracking device. Some people have none at all. I use a 3DOF device that only allows for rotation and has no translation. The issue with that is in the F16 that there is some odd device (Floodlight maybe?) blocking the view onto the top part of the RWR and unlike in the A10 I couldn't find a switch to adjust the seat position down to have a clear look.

I would like this obstruction removed or an option to disable it such as with the flight stick or in the special options because it's certainly relevant to know whether it's an SA10 or a Mig31 locking you up and you can't tell which it is as you can barely see the bottom part of the diamond.


Edited by FalcoGer
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Not everybody has a 6DOF headtracking device. Some people have none at all. I use a 3DOF device that only allows for rotation and has no translation. The issue with that is in the F16 that there is some odd device (Floodlight maybe?) blocking the view onto the top part of the RWR and unlike in the A10 I couldn't find a switch to adjust the seat position down to have a clear look.

I would like this obstruction removed or an option to disable it such as with the flight stick or in the special options because it's certainly relevant to know whether it's an SA10 or a Mig31 locking you up and you can't tell which it is as you can barely see the bottom part of the diamond.
Understand, but FYI the Viper also has seat adjustment. Right wall?

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6 hours ago, FalcoGer said:

Not everybody has a 6DOF headtracking device. Some people have none at all. I use a 3DOF device that only allows for rotation and has no translation. The issue with that is in the F16 that there is some odd device (Floodlight maybe?) blocking the view onto the top part of the RWR and unlike in the A10 I couldn't find a switch to adjust the seat position down to have a clear look.

I would like this obstruction removed or an option to disable it such as with the flight stick or in the special options because it's certainly relevant to know whether it's an SA10 or a Mig31 locking you up and you can't tell which it is as you can barely see the bottom part of the diamond.

 

 

Yea it is hard to see whole RWR with no track IR, but you have to understand that's how it is in the real plane, they cant just re design the cockpit for you, as MAXsenna said, there is a seat adjustment switch on the right wall, just to the right of the stick.

 

If you ask me, there are cheap IR track devices out there that are really worth buying, and they will completely change your game.

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They already made the concession by allowing to remove the stick. I don't see any reason why they couldn't remove that doohickey that's blocking the view, too.

Also I don't know any cheap solutions. TrackIR 4 is 150 bucks, TrackIR 5 is 300 bucks. Webcam based stuff reportedly sucks. I have 20 buck 3DOF and it works fine for most cases. It's just this little annoyance.

Again if you have the money to blow on that stuff, then by all means have that little thing there for you to look around and get the full cockpit experience. I'm saying that for people that do not have that luxury it would be nice to have the option to disable that.

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They already made the concession by allowing to remove the stick. I don't see any reason why they couldn't remove that doohickey that's blocking the view, too.

Also I don't know any cheap solutions. TrackIR 4 is 150 bucks, TrackIR 5 is 300 bucks. Webcam based stuff reportedly sucks. I have 20 buck 3DOF and it works fine for most cases. It's just this little annoyance.

Again if you have the money to blow on that stuff, then by all means have that little thing there for you to look around and get the full cockpit experience. I'm saying that for people that do not have that luxury it would be nice to have the option to disable that.
https://delanengineering.com/shop/

50 quid for the gamer package. Deduct 20% if you live outside UK.
Modded PS3 cam. And TrackIR also uses a camera.
Works in all games TrackIR works in.
Enjoy!

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Posted (edited)
8 minutes ago, FalcoGer said:

They already made the concession by allowing to remove the stick. I don't see any reason why they couldn't remove that doohickey that's blocking the view, too.

Also I don't know any cheap solutions. TrackIR 4 is 150 bucks, TrackIR 5 is 300 bucks. Webcam based stuff reportedly sucks. I have 20 buck 3DOF and it works fine for most cases. It's just this little annoyance.

Again if you have the money to blow on that stuff, then by all means have that little thing there for you to look around and get the full cockpit experience. I'm saying that for people that do not have that luxury it would be nice to have the option to disable that.

 

The stick was blocking a whole lot of stuff,

 

here is a cheap version of track IR, I have it and its great:

https://delanengineering.com/

 

Edit:

Lol yea now I just repeated MAXsenna;P

 

seems many can google nowdays ;D


Edited by Furiz
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The stick was blocking a whole lot of stuff,
 
here is a cheap version of track IR, I have it and its great:
https://delanengineering.com/
 
Edit:
Lol yea now I just repeated MAXsenna;P
 
seems many can google nowdays ;D
Haha! You bet!
I know link by heart though, but I found it two years ago by Google!

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This needs to be addressed by ED, the angle of the reclined seat gives a full view of the RWR. It is not obstructed in the real jet.

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This needs to be addressed by ED, the angle of the reclined seat gives a full view of the RWR. It is not obstructed in the real jet.
Yes please ED.
I cant express myself enough how annoying this problem is (I'm using 6 DOF Trackir)

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The issue isn't with anything obstructing the RWR per se. The main issue is the same we had in the A-10C where ED had placed the default view position much farther forward than a pilots eyes would be in real life. Hold R-CTRL and R-SHIFT while pressing the zoom/view bindings on the numpad to adjust your head position. There is some way to save a new default view position so you don't have to set it every single flight, but I don't remember how to do that unfortunately. If you place your view about a heads distance from the headrest you won't have any issues seeing the RWR. Doing this you might see a little bit less of the HUD symbology but you should still see almost everything. This is because a pilots eyes can see more of the HUD symbology at the same distance as each eye views the HUD from a different angle.

 

And like others said, TrackIR or a similar DIY solution helps a lot. It doesn't have to be expensive, I know people who've put together a DIY tracking solution for under $20.

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On 6/5/2021 at 8:03 PM, =Panther= said:

This needs to be addressed by ED, the angle of the reclined seat gives a full view of the RWR. It is not obstructed in the real jet.

I run into this problem too in VR when trying to ascertain RWR threats in front of me... I'm thinking too a pilot seating position problem or that position of the floodlamp because for the life of me I can't imagine real aircraft designers either accidentally or otherwise obscuring the entire front azimuth portion of the RWR from the pilot in their natural reclined seating position. Or for that matter, requiring the pilot to shift their body or their head in order to view the entirety of the RWR.

 

But, yes experiencing this in VR too and it is a major annoyance...

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17 minutes ago, Baz000 said:

I run into this problem too in VR when trying to ascertain RWR threats in front of me... I'm thinking too a pilot seating position problem or that position of the floodlamp because for the life of me I can't imagine real aircraft designers either accidentally or otherwise obscuring the entire front azimuth portion of the RWR from the pilot in their natural reclined seating position. Or for that matter, requiring the pilot to shift their body or their head in order to view the entirety of the RWR.

 

But, yes experiencing this in VR too and it is a major annoyance...

As I mentioned previously in this thread, if you move your default head position backwards to where a pilots head would be in real life, you won't have any issues seeing the RWR.

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yeah, well I shouldn't even have to move my default head position... Why is the pilot not situated in the correct position in the first place (if that is the case) Not to mention that in VR I don't even think you can because it is defined by ED. 

Not to mention that Panther worked on F-16s, sat inside them regularly and even she says that the position is incorrect...

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yeah, well I shouldn't even have to move my default head position... Why is the pilot not situated in the correct position in the first place (if that is the case) Not to mention that in VR I don't even think you can because it is defined by ED. 
Not to mention that Panther worked on F-16s, sat inside them regularly and even she says that the position is incorrect...
That's an issue I have with all DCS modules the first time I use them. I always have to change position.
Didn't you read the discussion of the HUD in the A-10C perhaps.
Anyway, don't use VR, but sort of the same thing came up, and I believe it worked in VR too, but not sure.
Habe you tried?
RCtrl+Num2 4 8 6 for x and y axis. And / or * for FOV.
RCtrl+Num0 saves.
CAREFUL with the save. You have to be positioned correctly, and look the correct way. If you look to the side that will be saved as well. So I always turn off headtrackin before I change anything.

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On 6/5/2021 at 8:03 PM, =Panther= said:

This needs to be addressed by ED, the angle of the reclined seat gives a full view of the RWR. It is not obstructed in the real jet.

Seriously, this shouldn't even be a Wishlist item and I don't know why it is... It should go as a bug report to ED... I agree with Panther who actually is former F-16 ground crew and I know has been giving input to ED on the DCS F-16.

 

Why should I try spending my time to fix something on my end when my friend I fly a 2 ship of F-16s with has the same problem and if he gets spiked, he can't relay to me what is spiking him on RWR because he can't see the whole front azimuth quarter of the panel to give us any SA??

 

Conversely however, if I get spiked and I setup a snapview (which is not ideal anyways because it messes up reading other things like the HUD, or sight picture for landing, etc, etc... ED has way more resources to combat this problem than I have by saving a snapview that just screws up other things like reading MFDs or HUD for instance.)

 

Anyways, Conversely same situation... I could look at RWR and immediately say MUD 6 spike 12 o'clock. Time is of the essence here in virtual combat flying, the faster you can see what is spiking you and from where the more likelihood of survival you have. And then you can hear your Wingman say over the radio "Stroke-3 defending SA-6" as opposed to "what's spiking you?? Or some other derivative"

 

C'mon man, forward azimuth of the RWR being completely obstructed in the cockpit both in 2D and VR isn't a good problem to have and would be critical to get fixed soon. Yeah, we could all fiddle around with saving some snapview of some cockpit position that causes us many more problems like you can't read the bottom half of the HUD and every end user can have something completely different than the other.

 

Or? We could have some kind of universal fix for this implemented by ED so that everyone is on the same page and on the same footing when flying. I honestly don't even care if ED just removed that 3D floodlamp model right in front of the RWR as a fix. Maybe that floodlamp is in the completely wrong place for all I know? Or maybe it is the wrong scale? Or maybe the wrong angle mounted to the bottom of brow panel? There are a lot of variables it may be.

 

You guys who are here just saying "just go make a custom snapview" and parroting that constantly in such threads (I have heard this same argument many times for other modules too) IMHO are doing us a great disservice because instead of allowing us to project a unified front that there may be an issue of some type, you just want to inject doubt and discourse and lower the probability of ED actually looking into this if many users are complaining and then just simply retorting them with "just save a snapview" which basically is just like telling us "no problem here folks so just buzz off quite frankly."

 

I mean someone who has been in the USAF and worked on F-16s is saying there is indeed a problem and the RWR azimuth display shouldn't be obstructed (which honestly would seem like common sense in combat aircraft design) and that from the normal seating position without doing any body or neck acrobatics you should be able to see and discern what is presented on it.

 

so yeah, while we all are looking forward to HTS, and JDAM, etc, etc... If this issue persists then all those new toys won't be any use when you can't tell WHAT is locking you from in front of your 3-9 line... Like say a SA-10 and that is not the SA-11 you were trying to engage or were expecting in your briefing, anyways food for thought... 

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Seriously, this shouldn't even be a Wishlist item and I don't know why it is... It should go as a bug report to ED... I agree with Panther who actually is former F-16 ground crew and I know has been giving input to ED on the DCS F-16.
 
Why should I try spending my time to fix something on my end when my friend I fly a 2 ship of F-16s with has the same problem and if he gets spiked, he can't relay to me what is spiking him on RWR because he can't see the whole front azimuth quarter of the panel to give us any SA??
 
Conversely however, if I get spiked and I setup a snapview (which is not ideal anyways because it messes up reading other things like the HUD, or sight picture for landing, etc, etc... ED has way more resources to combat this problem than I have by saving a snapview that just screws up other things like reading MFDs or HUD for instance.)
 
Anyways, Conversely same situation... I could look at RWR and immediately say MUD 6 spike 12 o'clock. Time is of the essence here in virtual combat flying, the faster you can see what is spiking you and from where the more likelihood of survival you have. And then you can hear your Wingman say over the radio "Stroke-3 defending SA-6" as opposed to "what's spiking you?? Or some other derivative"
 
C'mon man, forward azimuth of the RWR being completely obstructed in the cockpit both in 2D and VR isn't a good problem to have and would be critical to get fixed soon. Yeah, we could all fiddle around with saving some snapview of some cockpit position that causes us many more problems like you can't read the bottom half of the HUD and every end user can have something completely different than the other.
 
Or? We could have some kind of universal fix for this implemented by ED so that everyone is on the same page and on the same footing when flying. I honestly don't even care if ED just removed that 3D floodlamp model right in front of the RWR as a fix. Maybe that floodlamp is in the completely wrong place for all I know? Or maybe it is the wrong scale? Or maybe the wrong angle mounted to the bottom of brow panel? There are a lot of variables it may be.
 
You guys who are here just saying "just go make a custom snapview" and parroting that constantly in such threads (I have heard this same argument many times for other modules too) IMHO are doing us a great disservice because instead of allowing us to project a unified front that there may be an issue of some type, you just want to inject doubt and discourse and lower the probability of ED actually looking into this if many users are complaining and then just simply retorting them with "just save a snapview" which basically is just like telling us "no problem here folks so just buzz off quite frankly."
 
I mean someone who has been in the USAF and worked on F-16s is saying there is indeed a problem and the RWR azimuth display shouldn't be obstructed (which honestly would seem like common sense in combat aircraft design) and that from the normal seating position without doing any body or neck acrobatics you should be able to see and discern what is presented on it.
 
so yeah, while we all are looking forward to HTS, and JDAM, etc, etc... If this issue persists then all those new toys won't be any use when you can't tell WHAT is locking you from in front of your 3-9 line... Like say a SA-10 and that is not the SA-11 you were trying to engage or were expecting in your briefing, anyways food for thought... 
Did you read my post at all?
Though I completely agree with you, as the default position should be tuned to where the perfect head position should be in a specific aircraft. (I think they did in that other Viper thingy, just checked)
But I don't understand why you go all ramping and typing instead of trying to fix it. Takes you literally five minutes to test it.
Like I wrote. I have this in ALL my modules.
Not just the ED ones.
In the C-101 module, they tell you to adjust the seat, so you can see the pitot tube on the nose.
In the Sabre you can have an auto seat adjustment if you're gear is out, and in other modules you're supposed to raise and lower the seat depending on what you're doing. The Viggen solves this by physically moving the HUD.
Now I would love to have @=Panther= 's view on if they ever and when/why the would raise/changed the seat position while flying.
Also, we are not strapped in our "seats". We can pretty much move our bodies freely.
I need to adjust/resett my headtracking constantly because I have ants all over my because I shift my non-playing postion ALL the time. Just like when I drive. But in my car, my seat belt doesn't strap me in, like I think they do in a fighter jet. And that might be the problem with the Viper module. Whoever coded this didn't take into account the reclining seat. But what do I know.

EDIT: What I sort of tried to explain, is that I tend to lean forward in my current setup, and totally sets the position incorrectly compared to how I would think it should be IRL. What happens if you lean your seat backwards to the "correct" angle?


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3 hours ago, MAXsenna said:


Now I would love to have @=Panther= 's view on if they ever and when/why the would raise/changed the seat position while flying.

 

Don't think they do ever, but I stay on the ground don't get to see everything. When I had the opportunity to ride in the back, none of my pilots changed their seat position. Additionally I was instructed to use a fist to find my sweet spot. Ball the fist, place it on top of the helmet and raise the seat until my fist touched canopy.

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Don't think they do ever, but I stay on the ground don't get to see everything. When I had the opportunity to ride in the back, none of my pilots changed their seat position. Additionally I was instructed to use a fist to find my sweet spot. Ball the fist, place it on top of the helmet and raise the seat until my fist touched canopy.
Thanks for answering! What I would expect actually. Seems to me to be strange that one would change this during flight. It's a reason I have memory on the seats in all my bimmers, and I only click it before I drive.
Tested a lot in that other sim today. RWR is pretty visable all the time, even if I try to move a lot, can see everything everywhere. Without effort, like it should be I suppose.
In DCS it feels like I'm having a non tentioned seat belt. When doing tests/bits on left console, I have to move my body actually, to look over that fur on the left side of the seat. That can't be right?
But somehow DCS movements seems more natural though. I use same curves on both sims.
Only thing that seems common to both is the obstruction of the right hand armrest covering the switches beneath it.
BTW, I'm not envious at all...

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On 6/5/2021 at 4:39 PM, FalcoGer said:

Not everybody has a 6DOF headtracking device. Some people have none at all. I use a 3DOF device that only allows for rotation and has no translation. The issue with that is in the F16 that there is some odd device (Floodlight maybe?) blocking the view onto the top part of the RWR and unlike in the A10 I couldn't find a switch to adjust the seat position down to have a clear look.

I would like this obstruction removed or an option to disable it such as with the flight stick or in the special options because it's certainly relevant to know whether it's an SA10 or a Mig31 locking you up and you can't tell which it is as you can barely see the bottom part of the diamond.

 

You can do what you want with this advice but I really urge you to save up for TrackIR5 or one of the cheaper alternatives...once you tried it you'll realize just how good it is.. and there's no going back.

 

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On 6/8/2021 at 7:02 PM, MAXsenna said:

To save

RAlt+Num0

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My view went to the right side with doing that! How to turn back to left, or how to reset back to default?

But not just moved to the right, it was moving around to the right, with a center axis of my head.

This is now my head-straight-forward look like:

image.png


Edited by skywalker22
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LOL......

I continued pressing RAlit+Num0 to come around 360degrees, and look where I came:

image.png

---

Solution: Go to your saved games/DCS/Config folder and delete the View folder. That will return all cockpit views to default.

 

BUT STILL: Why with RAlt+Num0 view turns right (each time you press the combo for a bit)??


Edited by skywalker22
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My view went to the right side with doing that! How to turn back to left, or how to reset back to default?
But not just moved to the right, it was moving around to the right, with a center axis of my head.
This is now my head-straight-forward look like:
image.thumb.png.8939bc1d184b88c57e579d33a9c96ef1.png
Apologies!!! RCtrl+RShft+Num keys to move head axis. Sorry!!!!
Numeric Enter resets before you save.
Forgot to write to test before save as well.
Well, you sorted it out though!




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