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I was fighting F-14 and Notch doesn't work avoiding Aim-7M. What to do?


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Posted (edited)
4 minutes ago, GGTharos said:

 

Typically these jammers will flood angles and range together, thus breaking he lock - literally should not be possible to guide on the target when successful. Again, DCIsm vs IRL, and a deep topic in and of itself.

Yea, but the point is this is how all HOJ works in DCS, this isnt an AIM-7 thing as it was made out to be earlier. The complaint should be about fixing broken core game mechanics, not labeling specific missiles OP. Any HOJ missile will do this (which, hint, is anything but the AIM-7E and Super 530 [for some odd reason])


Edited by dundun92

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11 minutes ago, dundun92 said:

Yea, but the point is this is how all HOJ works in DCS, this isnt an AIM-7 thing as it was made out to be earlier. The complaint should be about fixing broken core game mechanics, not labeling specific missiles OP. Any HOJ missile will do this (which, hint, is anything but the AIM-7E and Super 530 [for some odd reason])

 

That's fair.  I would recommend repeating the experiment with R-27(E)Rs in this instance.  This could show a difference between the new and old implementations of HoJ.  Or as hoJ removed from R-27s?  I don't even remember any more.

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Just now, GGTharos said:

 

That's fair.  I would recommend repeating the experiment with R-27(E)Rs in this instance.  This could show a difference between the new and old implementations of HoJ.  Or as hoJ removed from R-27s?  I don't even remember any more.

At least in the lua, its listed as having HOJ.

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It is obvious they are implementing this pulse STT over power to shot down red helicopters easily. As Mi-24 is almost there. 
 

Wags should explain the Pulse STT developing in Mi-24 videos as well 

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18 minutes ago, TaxDollarsAtWork said:

A little dishonest to say the AIM-7M is some OP God's missile pepin, considering its range is underperforming compared to IRL data.

A little trolling can go a long way to open some eyes on missile development in DCS. 🙂

 

The fact of the matter is, many things are porked, but some should be a priority. Like ERs vs Cows in DCS. Nuff said

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First of all, helicopters should be in big trouble vs. modern radars.  They WILL see the rotors spinning even if the heli is landed on the ground.

Older radars like N001 and AWG-9 will see them also, but they will have problems with them.   The missile's radar would experience similar problems because a very important piece of data, the closure, is very variable for the helicopter motor and it is a variable that is directly fed into the PN guidance process.

It's quite possible that the 'HELI' option for the AIM-7 disables this input, which causes some other issues that aren't important when your target is a slow-moving heli, but it does remove one of the gates that you can use to distinguish it from clutter.

 

But this isn't here nor there.  PSTT is nothing that's 'OP', it's simply one of the modes of the AWG-9 with its own peculiarities are can't be modeled completely and this is not Heatblur's fault nor problem.

ED will need to model these radar peculiarities generically, as they apply to many radars which use Pulse but not doppler.

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You don't have to agree with anything, this has been done in IRL combat.

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Posted (edited)
12 minutes ago, GGTharos said:

You don't have to agree with anything, this has been done in IRL combat.

What IRL combat? Dropping bombs on an Helicopter IRL is not  the same as AA missile tracking a maneuvering notching target. 


Edited by pepin1234

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1 minute ago, pepin1234 said:

What IRL combat? Dropping bombs on an Helicopter IRL is not  the same as AA missile tracking a maneuvering notching target. 

 

Then you should specify about what you believe to be fantasy.  You brought helicopters into this - do you want to continue talking about helicopters or would you like to drop it?

FYI, that bomb was dropped yes, but the initial selection was an AIM-9M.  The helicpters was always tracked by the radar in AA mode from start to finish.  The pod was slaved to the heli by the AA radar, and a bomb was selected when the pod showed the helicopter on the ground.

 

But understand the implication, it means the helicopter can never hide in the notch for those types of radars.  The details of how the radar and the missile seeker need to deal with it is it's own topic.

 

Coming back to your battling that AIm-7 yourself, do you understand everything that has been said here or do you want a summary?

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GGTharos the Helicopter was downed in his FARP hovering and not in AA combat. So is not way Pulse STT was involved. 
 

Notching low level in a fighter and slow Helicopters are similar cases. 
 

that’s why I brought the Helicopter example because the OP in this radar mode is clearly another action against the incoming Mi-24 and at the same time against the AA combats 

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Posted (edited)
7 minutes ago, pepin1234 said:

GGTharos the Helicopter was downed in his FARP hovering and not in AA combat. So is not way Pulse STT was involved. 

 

I don't know why you're coming back to PSTT, it is irrelevant.  The point is that regardless of radar mode, the spinning rotors will be detected.  That helicopter WAS on the ground when the bomb was released, then it rose to a hover.   It's not worth arguing about this.

The point here is simple:  Radars can detect a helicopter that isn't moving.  This has nothing to do with the rest of your thread.

 

Quote

Notching low level in a fighter and slow Helicopters are similar cases. 

 

They are not even close.  The helicopter has a spinning rotor which can never enter the notch.

 

Quote

that’s why I brought the Helicopter example because the OP in this radar mode is clearly another action against the incoming Mi-24 and at the same time against the AA combats 

 

In DCS helicopters have no rotor reflection.  IRL they do.  There's no 'OP radar mode'. 

 

Seriously, this is getting very tiring pepin.  Come back when you can reproduce this issue like 3 times in a row instead of complaining that tone time you got shot down by an AIM-7.  Even DCS won't guarantee that you can escape the missile, so on rare occasions it can happen.  If it happens often, that's another thing and needs to be looked at a lot closer.

 

Stop going around posting about helicopters and who knows what else, no one cares that you believe PSTT is 'OP God Mode' just because you got shot down one time.

If you believe there is a bug, great, we all want to look into it and we all want bugs to be gone.  But cut this conspiratorial BS out, all it is is just more posts about nothing for everyone involved.  It's unnecessary.


Edited by GGTharos

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I am coming back to STT mode because we are talking about OP in DCS and this unrealistic over powering in combat is not real and the Fan Boys will use it against notching maneuvers and against Helicopters in low speed. You can detect an Helicopter or Notching fighter in a flat desert background, but you can do the same in a irregular plenty of trees terrain.

 

at this point you should trying to convince who?? Micky Mouse Fan Boys god of the DCS air space?

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1 hour ago, Breakshot said:

A little trolling can go a long way to open some eyes on missile development in DCS. 🙂

 

The fact of the matter is, many things are porked, but some should be a priority. Like ERs vs Cows in DCS. Nuff said

You'd enlighten more people by showing how a certain couple of ED employees bicker with and berate SMEs on the Russian forum.

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Posted (edited)
31 minutes ago, pepin1234 said:

I am coming back to STT mode because we are talking about OP in DCS and this unrealistic over powering in combat is not real and the Fan Boys

 

I don't think anyone wants to work with you because all you can do is sling insults.

 

Quote

will use it against notching

maneuvers and against Helicopters in low speed. You can detect an Helicopter or Notching fighter in a flat desert background, but you can do the same in a irregular plenty of trees terrain.

 

You can detect an non-moving helicopter under any circumstances if the rotors are spinning and you have LOS.  This is IRL.

In DCS helicopters can notch because there is no rotor reflection.

For the AWG-9 in pulse mode, that helicopter should be comfortably hidden in the ground clutter line when flying low.

 

Quote

at this point you should trying to convince who?? Micky Mouse Fan Boys god of the DCS air space?

 

I don't need to convince anyone, you need to stop being rude, read what's been written and ask questions if you didn't understand something.

Furthermore, how is any of this the player's fault?  They simply use what the game gives them, as do you.


Edited by GGTharos
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Posted (edited)

The AIM-7F chart falls a bit short of IRL performance.   Close but not quite there.  If you look at the 'vmin' line at 10km, IRL the range is closer to 46km.

Source: IRL combat hud footage at slightly lower altitude with a lower closure co-altitude target and range table from IRL F-14 weapons manual.

 

It's possible that the Russian chart is calculated with different end-game parameters than the DLZ, who knows.  The take-away is that these charts are ok sources of information until you have something much better, like a CFD or wind tunnel test.


Edited by GGTharos
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locked for moderation

 

really dont know where to start, we have multiple forum reports from users for this thread, most of you here have been around long enough to know the rules.

 

If you want to report something please include a short track replay as an example, if the issue is repeatable a track reply will show it. 

Leave the insults and conjecture out of the bug report. 

 

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3 hours ago, pepin1234 said:

GGTHAROS you look like the ambassador of all the western unrealistic over power in this so called simulator

 

You have been around long enough to know that 1) you need to supply a track, if its impossible to notch, then it should be very easy for you to make a short track, and 2) stop with the insults.

This will stay closed, and you can open a PROPER bug report if you find something you believe is wrong. And please, without the insults to other users, the ED team, or the product. If you don't like opposing opinions, best not to ask for them on the internet. Thanks.

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