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Question for the game Devs: AMD FSR support


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No idea how to show this to the Devs.

 

I've read that Vulkan will eventually happen.  I just saw this video about AMD FSR(their version of DLS I guess) This sounds interesting as they say it will work with previous gen cards and Nvidia cards.

 

If it works and is worth while, I wonder if it could help players with older hardware?

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9UoghWAZ_L0

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rMzjs85pUh4

 

 

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, NoCoolName66 said:

No idea how to show this to the Devs.

  I would expect people doing this professionally aren't relying on forum posts to hear of developments in their field of employment. That said, wishlist is probably the place to put it, although there's already one over there.

 

Quote

I've read that Vulkan will eventually happen.  I just saw this video about AMD FSR(their version of DLS I guess) This sounds interesting as they say it will work with previous gen cards and Nvidia cards.

  Offhand, I'd say most likely Vulkan doesn't necessarily equal inclusion of other features. That said, if it's open source (which as I understand is one of the hiccups with Nvidias solution) that makes it somewhat less of an issue. Implementing brand new concepts isn't a priority in most any development process, though, so I wouldn't hold my breath on it happening next week just because of a flashy sales brochure cherry picked to sound more awesomer.

 

Quote

If it works and is worth while, I wonder if it could help players with older hardware?

  DLSS and FSR are basically adaptive anti-aliasing. So in that respect, it's a compromise between no antialiasing (performance) vs FSAA (quality), yielding better performance than FSAA but worse quality. That's ultimately all there is to it, nothing particularly revolutionary about either technology despite the ardent claims of their advertisers, just like the 2000 series GPUs never came near ''50% faster!!!1!''.


Edited by Mars Exulte
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Posted (edited)

Thanks for the response.

 

Sorry if I gave the impression that I was expecting implementation right away, not my intent. I was just very interested in letting people know about this as I very much like the idea that the AMD version will hopefully help older cards.

 

I look forward to the day that I can replace my current system for reasonable prices, Dream on I know.


Edited by NoCoolName66
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3 hours ago, NoCoolName66 said:

Thanks for the response.

 

Sorry if I gave the impression that I was expecting implementation right away, not my intent.

  I wasn't meaning anything harsh either. It is very common for people to rush to the forums with each new tech announcement though 😛

 

3 hours ago, NoCoolName66 said:

I was just very interested in letting people know about this as I very much like the idea that the AMD version will hopefully help older cards.

  Nvidia takes the proprietary route too much and it bites them in the ass, as far as I can see. They did that with Gsync, sounds like they did it with DLSS, and ray tracing too probably. Then sooner or later (usually sooner) somebody (AMD) comes up with a similar solution that's NOT behind a paywall, and drives their market down. Imo, they suffer from ''I'm too big to fail'' mentality that recently burned Intel.

 

3 hours ago, NoCoolName66 said:

I look forward to the day that I can replace my current system for reasonable prices, Dream on I know.

  Me, too........ me, too....

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Release date is 22nd June, I hope it will support my 1080Ti...

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  • 2 weeks later...

it launched today and watching reviews i can say it's really good.

 

please ED, this could be the game changing feature in DCS 

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28 minutes ago, despinoza said:

this could be the game changing feature 

 

  Turn AA on. Note the FPS and image quality. Turn AA off, note the FPS and image quality. DLSS and FSR yields results between those two figures. If that is your idea of ''game changing'' technology, you need to raise your standards and hold your wallet a little more tightly.

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This could be a game changer technology for VR in DCS because super sampling on headsets like the Reverb G2 and Vive Pro 2 is very important but currently almost impossible because it tanks the performance.  This should work great with upscaling because the increased image resolution is used the correct barrel distortion and smooth edges, not to add extra texture detail.

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All this tech does is render lower res on to your higher res screen. Sapphire has had something similar built into their GPU drivers for eons.

 

For me, I'm running 4K quite happily. If I ran FSR then I'd effectively be running a resolution somewhere between 1440p and 2160p... lets' say 1700p (or something like that) plus a bunch of GPU rendered anti-aliasing turned on.

 

Probably be better off to run 1440p with more in game anti's turned on. Or maybe not. Would take experimentation.

 

Options are great but I'd rather upgrade the hardware to get the resolution I want running the way I want.

 

That said, I've read that it is very minimal effort to incorporate FSR into modern graphics stacks. DX11, who knows? Plus there is the PITA of writing the front end for it in game. More sliders in the graphics config screen. Meh. ED is on a roll with content - for me if the coding and initial QA for this couldn't be done in 1-2 sprints I wouldn't bother with it till after Vulkan is released - re-asses then - or do it as part of the Vulkan release.

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Oh, 4k, so you run a pretty low resolution then. My VR headset runs at 2 times 3300x3300 and I could easily get 30% more frames without a discernable visual difference if this shader is implemented. Did you even read up on what exactly this upscaling shader does? It's not just simply doubling the pixels and bluring stuff.

 

I can't even throw more money at the performance problem in VR because my machine is pretty much maxed out.

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17 minutes ago, audax said:

Did you even read up on what exactly this upscaling shader does?

 We've all read the sales brochure, yes. The difference is some of us are experienced enough with life to know 90% of what companies claim in sales brochures is bs cherry picked to make people rush out and throw money at them.

 

17 minutes ago, audax said:

I can't even throw more money at the performance problem in VR because my machine is pretty much maxed out.

  This happens to people chasing numbers sans common sense. A few years ago when 4k was new, tons of people rushed out to buy it when the tech to drive it properly was still 5-6 years away only to encounter *gasp* low framerates. Lo and behold, people rushing out to purchase VR headsets with grossly inflated ''specs'' that absolutely no PC can even hope to run efficiently also encountered... low framerates.

 

  DLSS and FSR are not magic that are going to suddenly make poor purchasing decisions better. Tailor your entire rig based off the technology available, relying on gimmicky graphic options to resolve jumping the shark is, at best, unreliable.

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16 hours ago, Mars Exulte said:

 We've all read the sales brochure, yes. The difference is some of us are experienced enough with life to know 90% of what companies claim in sales brochures is bs cherry picked to make people rush out and throw money at them.

 

  This happens to people chasing numbers sans common sense. A few years ago when 4k was new, tons of people rushed out to buy it when the tech to drive it properly was still 5-6 years away only to encounter *gasp* low framerates. Lo and behold, people rushing out to purchase VR headsets with grossly inflated ''specs'' that absolutely no PC can even hope to run efficiently also encountered... low framerates.

 

  DLSS and FSR are not magic that are going to suddenly make poor purchasing decisions better. Tailor your entire rig based off the technology available, relying on gimmicky graphic options to resolve jumping the shark is, at best, unreliable.

I am honored to have been blessed by your wisdom, oh wise elder. Thanks to your words I did not spent a single penny for the upscaling shader. I was blinded by the independent reviews praising the decent quality of the algorithm and the messages of game developers who are delighted by how easy it is to integrate the new technology into their engines. They know nothing of your prudence, for you are contempt with a flat world and so should everyone else.

 

But seriously: Everytime the hardware improves, DCS performance becomes worse. I may only play DCS since 2009, but that was always the case so far. FSR is interesting for DCS in VR because those high resolution headsets (those with "specs") need the resolution to correct for barrel distortion, but they don't actually need all the detail of the picture. By upscaling the image with a decent edge detection and sharpening/upscaling algorithm we can get a sharper image with better edge to edge clarity without paying the performance cost. It is also very useful for those of us who still use older hardware and can not keep up with the increasing hardware demands of DCS World.

 

Even though you already described my purchasing decisions as poor, I am very happy with them. I bought a Ryzen 5900X and a Radeon RX 6800 XT both at MSRP last year and they really served me well, not only in DCS. The sim runs good enough, but of course I don't achieve stable 90 or even 120fps, so there is room for improvement. Playing in pancake mode is not an option for me anymore, VR is just better.


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5 hours ago, Mars Exulte said:

 We've all read the sales brochure, yes. The difference is some of us are experienced enough with life to know 90% of what companies claim in sales brochures is bs cherry picked to make people rush out and throw money at them.

 

  This happens to people chasing numbers sans common sense. A few years ago when 4k was new, tons of people rushed out to buy it when the tech to drive it properly was still 5-6 years away only to encounter *gasp* low framerates. Lo and behold, people rushing out to purchase VR headsets with grossly inflated ''specs'' that absolutely no PC can even hope to run efficiently also encountered... low framerates.

 

  DLSS and FSR are not magic that are going to suddenly make poor purchasing decisions better. Tailor your entire rig based off the technology available, relying on gimmicky graphic options to resolve jumping the shark is, at best, unreliable.

Just wow... and no, I bought my 4K monitor together with a matching card that had enough RAM to make frame buffer work... What some people call informed decision, but hey what is real life experience versus a "professional" analysis. 😄 

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  • 2 weeks later...

 

While I do question whether DLSS or FSR would be appropriate for spotting, it is hard to deny that their current incarnations are able to offer significant performance improvements for any graphics setting with marginal to indiscernable impacts to graphics.

 

I've brought it up elsewhere, but given the various debates about simulated vision and the array of new up sampling tools such as FSR, i think it would be good to make a universal in-sim vision test it could probably even be as simple as rows of the eye exam rotated E's stationed at known distances from a view point. 

 

I should run the conversion on that. Thinking 1 meter E's with randomization and a method of reporting what direction you think it is, and tracking and consolidating the score, for a human vision equivalent. 

 

I suspect that 4k monitors already allow for greater than 20/15 vision. 

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