9K720 Iskander & KH-35 BAL-E

[AvgeekJoe]

Hey I'm someone who likes the idea of hunting missile sites before they unload on your base or coalition.  So here's two modern & different missile sites to consider.

 

First, the 9K720 Iskander.  The Iskander has been used in recent wars, including in the Caucauses.  A very good precision ballistic missile.  Can carry cluster munitions or a single warhead.

 

Second, the KH-35 BAL-E is just basically some Kh-35 missiles mounted on a truck w/ a supporting radar and fired at ships as per Military-Today.com.  It'd be a serious target that would have to be prioritized early on in any theatre.  There is also the Rubezh-ME for export that's a smaller platform, and Ukraine is making a clone of that.

[Tank50us]

I second this. More missiles to hunt would be nice.

 

But let's also not forget their BluFor counterparts, namely the land-based Harpoon Launcher

 

And it's Exocet cousin

 

[AvgeekJoe]

Agreed, we could use more Exocet options - especially with the upcoming Falklands Map.

[Northstar98]

On 5/29/2021 at 8:07 AM, AvgeekJoe said:

Agreed, we could use more Exocet options - especially with the upcoming Falklands Map.

Plus the La Combattante IIa, which for some reason is firing Harpoons out of what are clearly Exocet launchers.

As for the others +1, I'd certainly appreciate some more coastal defence stuff. Though I thought the 9K720 was on the roadmap a few years ago.

Edited April 16, 2022 by Northstar98

[AvgeekJoe]

1 minute ago, Northstar98 said:

 

Plus the La Combattante IIa, which for some reason is firing Harpoons out of what are clearly Exocet launchers.

 

As for the others +1, I'd certainly appreciate some coastal defence. Though I thought the 9K720 was on the roadmap a few years ago.

 

All should be.  But especially the 9K720.

 

I just like the idea of F/A-18s or F-16Is having to go out and preemptively protect the fleets.  Especially if surrounded by air defenses.

 

Or A-10s and eventually F-15Es looking for 9K720s before they unload on allied airfields & logistics bases!

[WinterH]

I'll be the odd one out and say SCUD is more than a good enough placeholder instead of sinking resources into Iskander. Not saying this because I don't want to see it, would be cool, but rather because evidently doing AI assets to ED's own set level of visual quality takes a good amount of time, effort, and thus money. Resources that can be used on other ground assets instead, like more early to mid cold war assets from both sides of the fence, or alternatively more modern air defense assets or AI aircraft to go with all the late 2000s and even 2010s stuff we are getting (even though I personaly don't care for them). Or indeed, simpler but arguably more impactful things like technicals armed with various weapons and/or ATGM/machine gun emplacements.

 

As far as I can remember, not really the Iskander, but there was a Tochka AI unit under work many years ago, like more than half a decade ago, but looks like it is shelved, sadly.

However, I do very much agree on ground based anti ship missile launchers. I think we only have relatively ancient Silkworm batteries right now, and that one is courtesy of Deka's Chinese Assets. This is a clearly lacking type of asset in DCS right now, even though majority of the maps feature large swathes of shore areas and sea, and the upcoming Marianas even more so. I'd say one relatively modern ground to ship missile system for blue and red each would be welcome, and silkworm can sort of keep representing older anti ship defenses.

[AvgeekJoe]

7 hours ago, WinterH said:

.  . .

However, I do very much agree on ground based anti ship missile launchers. I think we only have relatively ancient Silkworm batteries right now, and that one is courtesy of Deka's Chinese Assets. This is a clearly lacking type of asset in DCS right now, even though majority of the maps feature large swathes of shore areas and sea, and the upcoming Marianas even more so. I'd say one relatively modern ground to ship missile system for blue and red each would be welcome, and silkworm can sort of keep representing older anti ship defenses.

 

Thanks and we need the ground to ship mission systems bad.

[Northstar98]

On 5/29/2021 at 10:16 AM, WinterH said:

I'll be the odd one out and say SCUD is more than a good enough placeholder instead of sinking resources into Iskander. Not saying this because I don't want to see it, would be cool, but rather because evidently doing AI assets to ED's own set level of visual quality takes a good amount of time, effort, and thus money. Resources that can be used on other ground assets instead, like more early to mid cold war assets from both sides of the fence, or alternatively more modern air defense assets or AI aircraft to go with all the late 2000s and even 2010s stuff we are getting (even though I personaly don't care for them). Or indeed, simpler but arguably more impactful things like technicals armed with various weapons and/or ATGM/machine gun emplacements.

Agreed. There's still quite a few legacy units that aren't up to the same standard as the most recent ones do, and now it's more noticeable. It should also be said that the PT-76 recently added isn't a new addition at all, it's been around for ages sat in the files unimplemented.

Technicals should be a priority, and IMO it's fairly necessary to have multiple variants (preferably a couple of vehicles, but with a configurable loadout).

Something like this would be absolutely ideal:

Quote

As far as I can remember, not really the Iskander, but there was a Tochka AI unit under work many years ago, like more than half a decade ago, but looks like it is shelved, sadly.

Yeah that's the one, it was the OTR-21 Tochka.

Quote

However, I do very much agree on ground based anti ship missile launchers. I think we only have relatively ancient Silkworm batteries right now, and that one is courtesy of Deka's Chinese Assets. This is a clearly lacking type of asset in DCS right now, even though majority of the maps feature large swathes of shore areas and sea, and the upcoming Marianas even more so. I'd say one relatively modern ground to ship missile system for blue and red each would be welcome, and silkworm can sort of keep representing older anti ship defenses.

Agreed, though one thing I will say, while HY-2 is old, there aren't any appropriate BLUFOR ships apart from maybe the upcoming Forrestal that really suite the era where the HY-2 was more of a threat.

Edited April 16, 2022 by Northstar98
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[AvgeekJoe]

@Northstar98 Without saying too much until it's done, oh I more than think we need the Hilux truck in DCS & SF2.... it's Beyond Sanity that the Hilux is not part of DCS: Syria.

[Northstar98]

On 5/29/2021 at 7:08 PM, AvgeekJoe said:

@Northstar98 Without saying too much until it's done, oh I more than think we need the Hilux truck in DCS & SF2.... it's Beyond Sanity that the Hilux is not part of DCS: Syria.

The same can be said about the total lack of naval units for the Persian Gulf/SoH map. Not a single accurate unit for any of the countries present...

Getting back to coastal defence missile systems, there's also the RBS 15 which also has a truck based launcher.

Edited April 16, 2022 by Northstar98
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[AvgeekJoe]

31 minutes ago, Northstar98 said:

 

The same can be said about the total lack of naval units for the Persian Gulf/SoH map. Not a single accurate unit for any of the countries present...

 

Getting back to coastal defence missile systems, there's also the RBS-15 which also has a truck based launcher.

 

 

Well if there's a Saab Gripen; good thinking!

[WinterH]

Some Sovremenny or Udaloys could be nice to have as well when it comes to the naval side of things. Right now the smallest anti-ship missile capable surface unit for Russia that isn't a fast attack craft is Slava class cruisers Moskva. But I'll admit they aren't necessarily essential to have.

[Northstar98]

On 5/29/2021 at 9:19 PM, WinterH said:

Some Sovremenny or Udaloys could be nice to have as well when it comes to the naval side of things. Right now the smallest anti-ship missile capable surface unit for Russia that isn't a fast attack craft is Slava class cruisers Moskva. But I'll admit they aren't necessarily essential to have.

I'd say they're pretty essential - they are the primary destroyers of the USSR and staple ships of the Soviet navy.

Only thing with the Udaloy is that (particularly for the Cold War) it is essentially dedicated to ASW (the SA-N-9 was FFBNW and it came later, at basically the end of the Cold War). There were far more Sovremennys and Udaloys than the Slava class.

The Sovremenny in particular should be particularly applicable to DCS, given that it's the primary anti-surface and anti-air destroyer of the Soviet Navy. The only ships that eclipse it are the Slava class and Kirov class, which are in much smaller numbers.

The only thing I'll say is that I'd rather the current ships get upgraded to a common standard rather than adding new, though I'd love a Sovremenny and the Udaloy. 

Edited April 16, 2022 by Northstar98
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[AvgeekJoe]

Good comments on ships!

 

Getting back to coastal defense, recently I read this book Red Star over the Pacific, Revised Edition: China's Rise and the Challenge to U.S. Maritime Strategy.  The Chinese really are sharpening their swords for more area denial weapons like anti-ship ballistic missiles.  I can see the Marianas needing Harpoons flown in to shoot at the PRC PLAN assets supposedly in the works.

[upyr1]

The US army used to have land based Tomahawks 

[Tank50us]

On 5/29/2021 at 6:11 PM, AvgeekJoe said:

Good comments on ships!

 

Getting back to coastal defense, recently I read this book Red Star over the Pacific, Revised Edition: China's Rise and the Challenge to U.S. Maritime Strategy.  The Chinese really are sharpening their swords for more area denial weapons like anti-ship ballistic missiles.  I can see the Marianas needing Harpoons flown in to shoot at the PRC PLAN assets supposedly in the works.

 

The problem with ASBMs is that shooting them down before they hit the target ship requires hitting it in the ascent stage. If I understand correctly, the Chinese know that relying on a single missile to hit a single ship with one of these things is pointless, and instead, have it where they'll release MIRVs to try and 'shotgun' it if you will. These MIRVs don't have a warhead on them, and are basically just slugs coming down at extreme speeds. The real sucky thing about them, is that they don't even need to hit the ship, or sink it to be effective. A single shot from one will force the carrier to have to shift position, and the hard turns to avoid being hit will keep it from being able to operate. And if it were to get hit, it's out of action for months with the amount of repairs that would be needed.

 

As for DCS... there is very, very little actually known about them. We know that some designs have MIRVs and operate like I mentioned, others have complex guidance systems, but there is very little known beyond that.

[Northstar98]

On 6/2/2021 at 2:56 AM, upyr1 said:

The US army used to have land based Tomahawks 

Yeah, but these were the BGM-109G GLCM, which were exclusively nuclear AFAIK (0.2 - 150kT variable yield).

I'm not aware of conventional Tomahawks employed as coastal defence, the only variant that's suitable is the BGM-109B Tomahawk TASM, which essentially has the same guidance system as the Harpoon AShM, but fairly certain its only ever been deployed on surface vessels and ships (as the RGM and UGM-109B TASM)

Note: in missions DCS is erroneously referring to the RGM-109C Tomahawk (presumably Block III as our Ticonderoga is post 2000s) TLAM-C as the BGM-109B which is the TASM (Tomahawk Anti-Ship Missile). 

Edited April 16, 2022 by Northstar98
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[Silver_Dragon]

On 5/29/2021 at 9:54 AM, Northstar98 said:

 

Plus the La Combattante IIa, which for some reason is firing Harpoons out of what are clearly Exocet launchers.

 

As for the others +1, I'd certainly appreciate some more coastal defence stuff. Though I thought the 9K720 was on the roadmap a few years ago.

 

 

Meanwhile the mallory of Combattante was equiped with Exocet, some of them was equiped with harpoons.

[Northstar98]

On 6/2/2021 at 10:41 AM, Silver_Dragon said:

Meanwhile the mallory of Combattante was equiped with Exocet, some of them was equiped with harpoons.

The majority of them were Exocet, and our one clearly has Exocet launchers and not Harpoon launchers.

AFAIK, only 2 Greek ships are fitted with Harpoons (and they fire them out of Mk141 launchers, not the box-like launchers of the Exocet).

Edited April 16, 2022 by Northstar98
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[upyr1]

3 hours ago, Northstar98 said:

 

Yeah, but these were the BGM-109G GLCM, which were exclusively nuclear AFAIK (0.2 - 150kT variable yield).

 

I'm not aware of conventionally launched Tomahawks employed as coastal defence, the only variant that's suitable is the BGM-109B Tomahawk TASM, which essentially has the same guidance system as the Harpoon AShM.

 

Note: in missions DCS is erroneously referring to the RGM-109C Tomahawk (presumably Block III as our Ticonderoga is post 2000s) TLAM-C as the BGM-109B which is the TASM (Tomahawk Anti-Ship Missile). 

 

https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/32483/marines-set-to-be-the-first-to-bring-back-land-based-tomahawk-missiles-post-inf-treaty the marines are looking at using them that way

[Northstar98]

Oh, didn't realise that. I guess RGM-109E Block Va MST, though it is a super new weapon that's only just starting to come out.

Edited June 2, 2021 by Northstar98

[Dragon89]

13 hours ago, upyr1 said:

The US army used to have land based Tomahawks 

 

Not US Army, but USAF. These would be an awesome addition to DCS, but they were only armed with nuclear warheads.

https://fas.org/nuke/guide/usa/theater/glcm.htm

 

[upyr1]

1 hour ago, Dragon89 said:

 

Not US Army, but USAF. These would be an awesome addition to DCS, but they were only armed with nuclear warheads.

https://fas.org/nuke/guide/usa/theater/glcm.htm

 

My bad, with them being intermediate range I wasn't sure who had them.  Anyhow the Marines are looking at bringing them back with conventional warheads https://www.defensenews.com/naval/2021/03/17/us-navy-set-to-take-delivery-of-the-latest-version-of-its-tomahawk-missile/

[upyr1]

3 hours ago, Northstar98 said:

Oh, didn't realise that. I guess RGM-109E Block Va MST, though it is a super new weapon that's only just starting to come out.

 

I don't know if there is enough information to use them in game, but even if Eagle is against using the nuclear versions these are something to consider if they can get the data

Edited June 2, 2021 by upyr1

[AvgeekJoe]

WHAT?  Nobody has modded nuclear weapons in DCS World... heckfire they're quite modded into Strike Fighters: 2 via Combat Ace.  Be nice if we had nukes to deal with.