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Has AFN-2 homing changed? I think it worked differently before (some 2.5.6 version)


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Posted (edited)

II tried homing again after having last tried it ~6 months ago. Didn't recognize the functionality now.

Happened to have a film of how it worked then. Made a new film now.

 

Old: No sound. Vertical needle moves to center. Needle not flipping. Lamp turns on just once.

 

 

 

New: Vertical needle flips synchronized with pulsed sound. Steady tone when on course. Lamp blinks twice accompanied with sound, first slowly "outer marker"(?), then faster "inner marker"(?).

 

3:52 long. First 30 sec notice the flipping needle synchronized with sound. Fast forward to 2:20 " "outer marker"(?) and 2:45 "inner marker"(?).

Go full screen to see needle, maybe set 720 "high quality".

 

 

Track attached in this post (accidental crash bug track, it crashed once at least on replay).

https://forums.eagle.ru/topic/270121-afn-2/?do=findComment&comment=4674866

 

Are ED working on improving homing? I'm more into flying than shooting stuff. Would love if homing would work on American & English planes too (Detrola).

 


Edited by -0303-

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  • -0303- changed the title to Has AFN-2 homing changed? I think it worked differently before (some 2.5.6 version)

Tested in The Channel map

  • with an Opel Blitz broadcasting in the 38.75mhz.
  • with ATC. When ATC answers, the AFN2 marks distance and bearing.

AFN2 working as intented with the FUG16 set at "HOMING" in both tests.

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Posted (edited)

Yes it works but does it work differently? I definitely don't remember the needle twitching (in sync with radio beeping).

 

I'm not complaining, I think it's great if the Warbirds radio homing is being developed.

 


Edited by -0303-
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19 hours ago, Tarres said:

Tested in The Channel map

  • with an Opel Blitz broadcasting in the 38.75mhz.
  • with ATC. When ATC answers, the AFN2 marks distance and bearing.

AFN2 working as intented with the FUG16 set at "HOMING" in both tests.

 

Could you please explain more closely how you set it up? I have tried the broadcasting option and it did not work as I hoped. What power should the broadcasting source have? 10W? Does it matter what sound file I use? I looped a constant tone, I could hear it, and I could see the directional needle twitching, but it was not legible enough to get the direction to the source. The needle indicating the distance moved only when I was very close to the source, not at all useful for navigation. Finally, on the BF109 radio presets, where do I set up the frequency? AFN2 base frequency, Channel 2, or both? Thanks. 

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The AFN-2 is a very short range system, is more a kind of “a very primitive blind landing system”.

In the ME set the afn frequency coupled with the preset that you set to your home airfield.

Later I will try to make some test with the power.

The needle only moves when receive signal, so if used with an ATC freq, it only moves when the ATC is answering.

 

Definitely the AFN mustn’t work with NDB, ILS or similar outside the freq band. This is a bug that remains in the modern maps. I will try later.

 

Sorry for my English 

 

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Posted (edited)
20 hours ago, Tarres said:

Yes, it seems that now works as the system sholud.

It does? Documentation says so?

~

 

Searched a bit. Wikipedia on "Y-Control for fighters".

 

Using Fug 16ZY Ground Control can find direction and range but not altitude. Though German pilots could, and did, inform Ground Control of their (own) altitude (over the AFN-2 frequency?). Tried and failed to talk to ATC while homing:

 

I set AFN-2 freq st 111.5 (Kobuleti ILS). I know this freq is ahistorical.

Tried both channel II set to 40.8 (Kobuleti ATC) and 111.5 (Kobuleti ILS).

Couldn't find a way to make Kobuleti respond using Push-To-Talk. ATC doesn't respond while set to homing "Y ZF". They do respond when set to "FT FT".

 

Correction: ATZ does respond in "Y ZF" position (at least it worked for channel 3). Couldn't see homing work.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Y-Control_for_fighters#Functionality

Quote

Y-Control for fighters

...

...

Initially it used a modified FuG17E radio but this was soon replaced by an add on to the standard radio FuG16Z turning it into the FuG16ZY

...

...

Functionality

The system worked by using sites known as Y-Stations. Each station had 5 radio operation systems. Each consisted of an omnidirectional transmitter an omnidirectional receiver and a direction finder. This allowed each site to control 5 fighters. The transmitter would send out a signal which was picked up by the FuG16ZY in the fighter (known as the Y Fighter), this repeated the signal back on a frequency 1.9 MHz lower than the transmitted frequency. Using the direction finder (DF) the angle was measured. Range was calculated by a timing system connected to both the transmitter and the omnidirectional receiver. Height could not be measured. However voice could be transposed onto the ranging signal allowing the ground controller to talk and listen to the pilot of the plane he was controlling, hence the pilot could report altitude when requested to do so.

...

...

 

 

 


Edited by -0303-
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Posted (edited)
12 hours ago, Tarres said:

In the ME set the afn frequency coupled with the preset that you set to your home airfield.

So ... for Kobuleti set AFN-2 to 40.8 and also set channel II to 40.8?

 

Quote

The needle only moves when receive signal, so if used with an ATC freq, it only moves when the ATC is answering.

Not terribly practical? Ask for "Navigation aid" and then quick like switch from "FT FT" to "Y ZF"?

Update. It'll respond in "Y ZF" mode, no switching needed.


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Posted (edited)

AFN-2 is not designed to made IFR flights. It´s more of a kind of "early blind landing system" with a very short range.

AFN-2 works within the frequencies of the FUG-16.  ILS frequencies are outside the FUG-16 limits.

AFN-2 must be set to one of the FUG-16 presets except "I" preset (I don´t know if Y fighter is modeled or WIP, so I avoid "I" preset for my tests).

 

As you said, the Y system works with the "I" preset. This is not modeled for now. In the "I" preset you talk in the "I" preset but you don´t hear anything, because the answer is made though the "II" preset. For this resason The Y-Fighter is not the leader. 

 

Works for me. Attached mission file.

 

Edit, on a side note, I think that the "yellow lamp indicator" wasn´t installed in the AFN-2 fitted on fighters. 

 

Edit 2: You can talk and receive AFN-2 indications with the switch in the Y ZF. YZF as IRL, preset "I" and YZF position, is not modeled. YZF provides indications for the afn2 in the 2, square and triangle positions.

 

 

 

afn2 test caucasus.miz


Edited by Tarres
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D/F homing part incorporated into FuG16 was not very short range.

Signal strength needle, "distance measure", shoul be able to show several tens of kilometers range and not less than 2 kilometers like in DCS W now.

 

The bacon power output set in ME does not have any effect on shown value on AFN2, which should have!

I tried default 10W, then 50W, 100W and 1000W output power and in all cases AFN2 shows the same.

 

D/F homing part should work only when the Communications-Homing switch is in homing position (down), on AD18Ya control box.

Unfortunately, when i set beacon`s frequency as a AFN2 Base Frequency in ME in DCS W, it measures distance always. That is not possible IRL, because if Communications-Homing switch is not in homing position the power supply for AFN2 and ZVG16 is OFF!

(ZVG16 processes received signal for AFN2)

Moreover, when i have selected homing for the FuG16 a can hear what the beacon transmmits even the FuG16 has no one chanel set at the beacon`s frequency...  That is IRL impossible again.

There is more wrong things about FuG16 in DCS, hopefully one day ED bring to us proper WWII radio-navigation.

 

Some of these unfortunate bugs are in track i made.

https://youtu.be/5G2VgHBlnXk

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I know that it’s not perfect, but if you use the system inside their freq. range and in ww2 maps, the system works better than before 2.7


 

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