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SLAM ER - MP desync


nickos86
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Posted (edited)

Hi,

We tried to attack some targets using SLAM-ER. Each pilot had two SLAMs and we setup the WAYPOINTS for each missile to go around a mountain at 700 feet. 

We launched the missiles from 7000 feet with an "IN RANGE" cue and full alignment.

 

Seems like every pilot saw ONLY HIS missiles navigate correctly to the targets via the defined waypoints. At the same time - he's wingman missiles flew straight towards the targets, completely ignoring the waypoints. 

 

I've attached the SERVERs track and my track. Also attached the SERVER TACVIEW, my TACVIEW and my wingman's TACVIEW.

Note how in my TACVIEW - all seems good for my missiles but wrong for the wingman. In my wingman's TACVIEW it is exactly the opposite. As for the server - from "his perspective" all missiles went straight toward the targets without any waypoints.   

 

server-20210523-211123_serverPOV.trk Tacview-20210523-211057-DCS-SLAM_ER_test_MP_NikosPOV.zip.acmi Tacview-20210523-211138-DCS-SLAM_ER_test_MP_ServerPOV.zip.acmi Tacview-20210523-211237-DCS-SLAM_ER_test_MP_ErlichPOV.zip.acmi

My track

SLAM_ER_test_MP-20210523-211048_NikosTrackPOV.trk


Edited by nickos86
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Posted (edited)

Also attached - the attack plan - one missile was programmed to go WAYPOINTS 2>3>4 and 5 is the target. The other 2>7>6 and 5 is the target.

Pictures of my missiles midflight from the F10 view and an observer F10 view (I guess he sees the POV of the server) pic

Attack_plan.png

NikosPOV_midflight.JPG

ObserverPOV_midflight.JPG


Edited by nickos86
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I can confirm this is happening consistently every time.

 

Similarly, since 2.7, dropping a CCIP SnakeEye using the hornet - only the dropping pilot can see the correct RET setting and trajectory. Other pilots see the bomb follow a different (usually RET mode) trajectory on F6 and F10 views.

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:pilotfly: BrotherBloat

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, [ED]Obi said:

Hi  - I can not replicate either of these issues in MP Dedi server. do you have any more info? Thanks


I don't think you can replicate this on your own, as the desync is between clients.

Client A sees only his missiles follow the designated path (slam er steerpoints), while the rest of the missiles (launched by client B) don't follow their path and go straight to target.
Client B sees only his missiles follow the designated path (slam er steerpoints), while the rest of the missiles (launched by client A) don't follow their path and go straight to target.


Edited by BarTzi
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It's not only SLAM-ER, but other munition also.
Yesterday my friend was observing my attack with The Hog. Maverics were synced ok, but laser guided APKWS for him were hitting middle of the field, when for me there were destroying targets.

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Posted (edited)

Can also confirm this. It is a long standing bug, most noticed on guided weapons in DCS. AIM-54, CM-802AKG, AGM-84D, AGM-84E/H and probably others too.
We tested this in multiplayer a few days ago, all clients went to spec in F6 view and we got different height, speed and bearing of weapon. Some clients registred
hits while others did not and the weapon was still flying!

We also did a desync test on runway. We dropped a bomb and then one of the clients rolled Hornet right up to the edge of the crater. We then had all clients go into
F2 view and share video over Discord. ALL had slight variations of crater texture and also position of the Hornet. For one client the front nose gear was on the edge
of crater, on another client the Hornet was fully into the crater etc.

Go into F2 or F6 view during multiplayer sessions and you will soon find that many clients see different things because of desync.

Edit:
This was on a private server, not dedicated. 5 clients, low ping and simple mission without many units and no scripts or mods running.  


Edited by Schmidtfire
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16 hours ago, BarTzi said:


I don't think you can replicate this on your own, as the desync is between clients.

Client A sees only his missiles follow the designated path (slam er steerpoints), while the rest of the missiles (launched by client B) don't follow their path and go straight to target.
Client B sees only his missiles follow the designated path (slam er steerpoints), while the rest of the missiles (launched by client A) don't follow their path and go straight to target.

 

Hi

Obi and I performed the test, with a 3rd tester in spectators, and neither of us could get the desynch to happen on multiple launches.

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31 minutes ago, Ironwulf said:

Hi

Obi and I performed the test, with a 3rd tester in spectators, and neither of us could get the desynch to happen on multiple launches.

Just making sure: are you using steerpoints for the path of the missiles? (we only observed the problem when using a pre planned missile flight path). If your build is different than OB, then this could have been solved internally somehow.

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11 minutes ago, BarTzi said:

Just making sure: are you using steerpoints for the path of the missiles? (we only observed the problem when using a pre planned missile flight path). If your build is different than OB, then this could have been solved internally somehow.

The test was conducted in TOO mode, using steerpoints since - to my knowledge - PrePlanned mode was not mentioned. Yes it was done on an internal build.

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Posted (edited)

would you consider running the test again in BETA?

Can you elaborate on how you ran the test? Did you setup WAYPOINTs really far from each other to verify all SLAMs navigate correctly? Replicating the mission WAGS used to demonstrate SLAM ER could be great (or at least the scale of it). 


Edited by nickos86
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I've found almost same thing with Harpoons, 4 of them hit the ship on my view and friend saw 2 of them flying further far, far away.

Dedicated server on my PC, internet with 100Mb/s upload and stable ping.

 

With SLAM-ER we had one situation when fired in TOO mode through 2 waypoints, I've said to friend to see how amazing missle is following terrain in mountains, he said he cannot see because missle is in clouds, but for me it was below them.

 

I think it can be also caused for how long mission is running.

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@[ED]Obithis is not only a SLAM-ER behaviour, if you shoot harpoons out, you will only be able to observe your own harpoons home in on a ship, while your wingman's harpoons (on your own F6 view) will just fly the assigned heading and never appear to home in on the target). However, the hits get registered just fine for all players, as each player sees their own munitions fly to the correct target.

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:pilotfly: BrotherBloat

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hi again - please find a sample track.

 

All players designated WP 2 as steerpoint 1 and WPDSG WP1 as target area, for each of their SLAM-ERs. Only Bloat's weapons are actually following the route in the track, the rest is recorded on my track as heading straight for the target. One exception - one of Knuckles' missiles was not designated correctly and went super-long - disregard.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1n7nxXEr9tocKAaFz_PMo-_a5e8R3C1H-/view?usp=sharing

In reality, all missiles went to their assigned steerpoint and allowed terminal guidance at the correct time, and targets were hit using MITL, at the expected arrival times.

sample map view:

image.png

:pilotfly: BrotherBloat

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  • 2 weeks later...

True, watching Harpoon fired by other players fly is really fun 🙂
They fly north, they fly past thru target and disapear and... target sill gets hit 🙂

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31 minutes ago, vCSG3 Bloat 203 said:

indeed - as do any weapons with variable delivery methods, such as SnakeEyes.


Slick Mk-82 has slight variations too. From the first second there is desync. We tried it on a fresh server, no scripts and no units. Ping: 14ms. 

If on a private server you can test very easily. Ask the Host to pause, go into F2 view and compare the infobar. You will find that not only weapons but player positions will be different. If you have Discord you can also compare streams for visual reference.

One interesting thing we found is that when players are close together the sync is nearly perfect (for formation flying), but at longer ranges there is a noticable desync in player position.

Now, if this is always a slight problem all the time... Imagine a long range weapon like the SLAM-ER. Harpoon has the same issue. We tried it a few nights ago. On the host computer the missile hit the ship. On the client computer the same missile lofted well over the ship and continued to fly and climb for several minutes! However the client could see the ship burst in flame and a score was given the Host.      
   

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1 hour ago, Schmidtfire said:


Slick Mk-82 has slight variations too. From the first second there is desync. We tried it on a fresh server, no scripts and no units. Ping: 14ms. 

If on a private server you can test very easily. Ask the Host to pause, go into F2 view and compare the infobar. You will find that not only weapons but player positions will be different. If you have Discord you can also compare streams for visual reference.

One interesting thing we found is that when players are close together the sync is nearly perfect (for formation flying), but at longer ranges there is a noticable desync in player position.

Now, if this is always a slight problem all the time... Imagine a long range weapon like the SLAM-ER. Harpoon has the same issue. We tried it a few nights ago. On the host computer the missile hit the ship. On the client computer the same missile lofted well over the ship and continued to fly and climb for several minutes! However the client could see the ship burst in flame and a score was given the Host.      
   

you're absolutely right :thumbsup:

:pilotfly: BrotherBloat

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On 6/15/2021 at 12:17 PM, Foka said:

Not only, APKWS has this same issue.

Yup, I've seen that yesterday when AI were using them, the funniest part is that my dedicated server and client are on the same PC 😄

 

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