Vive Pro 2

[dburne]

One thing that would really help these higher resolution headsets would be if DCS supported OpenXR runtime for VR. At least until the hardware or game optimization catches up.

 

It gives the ability to set reprojection to 2 frames in 3. Works pretty good in another flight sim.

 

 

6 minutes ago, imacken said:

For all you guys with the Kiwi face pads, are they the same width (length) as the VP2 original?

 I’m beginning to wonder if I have bought the wrong thing as mine are about 1 inch narrower in length. 

 

Yes mine are, just laid one on top of the original.

Did you also get the pad with your kit for the back part of the headset?

Edited June 13, 2021 by dburne

[imacken]

1 hour ago, dburne said:

Yes mine are, just laid one on top of the original.

Did you also get the pad with your kit for the back part of the headset?

 

Hmm, so yours are the exact same width?

 Can you post the link again? Ta. 
Pad for the back part of the headset?

[dburne]

1 hour ago, imacken said:

Hmm, so yours are the exact same width?

 Can you post the link again? Ta. 
Pad for the back part of the headset?

 

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07NYPV5NL?psc=1&ref=ppx_yo2_dt_b_product_details

Yes the exact same.

It is not pictured but also includes a smaller pad  to replace the cushion in the back that is against the back of the head.

[imacken]

Thanks Don, I’ve ordered that and returned the one I bought. I thought that the Vive was the same size as the VP1, but I guess not!

[dburne]

45 minutes ago, imacken said:

Thanks Don, I’ve ordered that and returned the one I bought. I thought that the Vive was the same size as the VP1, but I guess not!

 

You are most welcome - hope it helps. I really like mine, way better than the stock cushions.

[imacken]

Yep, it’s the cut out slots at the side of the original pad that is causing the light leak for me. Hopefully that will be solved. Why they did that I’ll never know!

[kelmcguir]

This is my first time hearing about Reshade CAS.  I found the AMD Fidelity FX CAS. Is that the same thing you are you using?  I just got the Vive Pro 2 and it's great so far, but I'd like to try the Reshade with it.  Where can I find it and how do I install it for DCS? Thanks!

[Baldrick33]

10 minutes ago, kelmcguir said:

This is my first time hearing about Reshade CAS.  I found the AMD Fidelity FX CAS. Is that the same thing you are you using?  I just got the Vive Pro 2 and it's great so far, but I'd like to try the Reshade with it.  Where can I find it and how do I install it for DCS? Thanks!

I am using this:

 

https://github.com/fholger/reshade/releases/tag/openvr_alpha2

 

I assume this is the same thing being referred to for VR?

 

Just copy the contents of the zip file into the DCS World bin folder

[Supmua]

Yes, it's the same thing that is adopted for Reshade use in VR.  For me it's mandatory with DCS, you'll see significant increase in clarity of ground and far away objects.

Edited June 13, 2021 by Supmua

[SneakyBastd]

I have changed my tune on the Vive Pro 2, and decided to return it. After an hour or so in the headset I was feeling queasy and had eye strain. Did this a couple times, and it persists. The problem for me is the lenses. There is a narrow cone in the middle in which everything is quite clear, and it's great. But if you avert your gaze a little it goes blurry and distorts. Everything outside the center cone is blurred and looks crappy. This means that as you naturally look around the cockpit, it is quite offputting. I thought I could get used to it after awhile, by looking directly at whatever I wanted to see clearly. but it hasn't worked out for me. The outer vision makes me feel sick, and left me with a headache. It feels hard to focus for some reason.

 

I've been using VR for awhile, tried different sets, and this is the first that was a problem for me in this regard.

It wasn't a framerate problem, I maintained 45fps for almost all of it.

I tried different gasket thicknesses (including none for a test), different IPD settings, etc. Nothing changes the fact the lens have a small zone in the dead middle that is beautiful, but the rest distorts once you look outside it.

 

it's a shame. I like the headset otherwise. The panels are fantastic. They are just let down by lenses that aren't quite up to the rest of it imho.

 

It's not all bad though. I learned that 2448x2448 per eye is a good standard for clarity. But even then, DCS has lots of shimmering lines. I couldn't run MSAA at that res to deal with it. So even though the panels were much higher res, and definitely sharper for cockpit details, the image was also distracting a lot of the time because of shimmer. I didn't expect that.

 

HTC support to my surprise was awesome. They have responded in online chat quickly every time and been very helpful. Not what I expected at all after hearing some horror stories.

 

I'm going back to my 5k+ for now, which has been comfortable to look at and I can easily wear for hours.

[dburne]

8 hours ago, SneakyBastd said:

I have changed my tune on the Vive Pro 2, and decided to return it. After an hour or so in the headset I was feeling queasy and had eye strain. Did this a couple times, and it persists. The problem for me is the lenses. There is a narrow cone in the middle in which everything is quite clear, and it's great. But if you avert your gaze a little it goes blurry and distorts. Everything outside the center cone is blurred and looks crappy. This means that as you naturally look around the cockpit, it is quite offputting. I thought I could get used to it after awhile, by looking directly at whatever I wanted to see clearly. but it hasn't worked out for me. The outer vision makes me feel sick, and left me with a headache. It feels hard to focus for some reason.

 

I've been using VR for awhile, tried different sets, and this is the first that was a problem for me in this regard.

It wasn't a framerate problem, I maintained 45fps for almost all of it.

I tried different gasket thicknesses (including none for a test), different IPD settings, etc. Nothing changes the fact the lens have a small zone in the dead middle that is beautiful, but the rest distorts once you look outside it.

 

it's a shame. I like the headset otherwise. The panels are fantastic. They are just let down by lenses that aren't quite up to the rest of it imho.

 

It's not all bad though. I learned that 2448x2448 per eye is a good standard for clarity. But even then, DCS has lots of shimmering lines. I couldn't run MSAA at that res to deal with it. So even though the panels were much higher res, and definitely sharper for cockpit details, the image was also distracting a lot of the time because of shimmer. I didn't expect that.

 

HTC support to my surprise was awesome. They have responded in online chat quickly every time and been very helpful. Not what I expected at all after hearing some horror stories.

 

I'm going back to my 5k+ for now, which has been comfortable to look at and I can easily wear for hours.

 

I wonder if you maybe got some lenses that were not up to par or something.

I feel the edge to edge clarity when looking around with my eyes is pretty good in my Vive Pro 2.

[imacken]

I’ve changed my tune on the VP2 as well, but in a completely opposite way to SneakyBastd.  It’s keeper for me, and I’m selling my G2.

I should know by now after many VR headsets, that it takes days to properly evaluate something new.

So, now, after those few days, I can safely say – with some caveats – that I feel the VP2 is the best VR headset I have owned, and I will be selling my G2. 

Firstly, the not so good:
1)    It takes a long time to get the sweet spot right. Now, I know that sounds crazy, but getting the right comfort fit in line with the sweet spot takes a lot of adjusting and experimenting, and I suspect that this is where some people are finding the image to have a small area of focus and not seeing an improvement in clarity over the G2.  Once achieved though, it is easy to just put the headset on in the correct position.
2)    Motion compensation is horrible at this point in time.  Please Vive, either use SteamVR motion smoothing/reprojection or improve this very soon.
3)    Glare/god rays are not great, but I can live with that.
4)    Comfort is definitely not as good as the G2.  With the G2, I hardly felt I had a headset on, but definitely do with the VP2.  Still, I can live with that.
5)    Light leak. I just don’t know why Vive cut those side slots in the face pad.  All they do is let light in, which is annoying if you are in a bright sunny room.  Not a huge issue though in-game, and this can be largely fixed by use of 3rd party face pads.
6)    Cross eye effect.  Been reported by some people, and I definitely felt this in DCS.  Only DCS mind.  This has to be down to individual eyesight.  The VP2 definitely has a shorter focal length than the G2, for example, as I am long sighted and didn’t need my medium range glasses with the G2, but with the VP2, I do.  However, this effect was sorted out by using the ED tool linked to here, so that is also all good now.

WMR DEBUG TOOL - cross eye alignment - Virtual Reality - ED Forums (eagle.ru)

 

Now, the good stuff:
1)    It takes time for incremental improvements to be appreciated and the VP2 is no different.  At first, I thought, OK I’m seeing an improvement in the FOV, but does it make a big difference?  Well, over time, I have decided that is a big YES.  Especially after I had got the sweet spot sorted out and the resolution/performance working, the difference, I feel is huge.  The VP2 has a much wider FOV as well as a much greater area of focus.  This leads to a massive difference in how it feels in-cockpit.  I can see wings on the Spitfire, etc., in peripheral vision, and I am so much more immersed in feeling like I am in a cockpit compared to the ‘diver’s helmet’ effect of the G2. There just seems to be more space around me with the VP2.  I can look at dials and read them by moving my eyes (or small head movements) rather than having to move my head towards everything previously.
2)    Improved image quality.  Again, this is subtle, but definitely there. Blacks are blacker and the whole image just pops more compared to the G2.
3)    The audio is definitely an improvement on the VP1, even though I have read it uses the same speakers.  I don’t believe that is true, as the sound in the VP1 was the thing I just didn’t like about it. It was completely lacking in any low end.  Not here, the VP2 has perfectly good sound although I would have preferred off-ear.
4)    Performance is on a par with the G2.  I’m running at 100% (3300x3300 for me) and am seeing greater frame times than on my G2, but as the res/SS is higher, then it is not surprising.  I’m happy with the performance, and SS can (obviously) be reduced to suit.
5)    No WMR!  Although I didn’t really have any major issues with WMR, it is nice to see that layer disappear. Vive Console is much less obtrusive, runs in the background and is really just there to link with SteamVR and provide some settings for the headset.
So, there we go. I am now very happy with the VP2.  It feels more immersive and less claustrophobic than the G2 to me. As always with incremental upgrades, differences are subtle, but well worth the upgrade I would say.
 

[dburne]

I am feeling pretty comfortable now with the Vive Pro 2 so yesterday evening I cleaned up/boxed up my Reverb G2 and Index headsets. I had three headsets of cabling running around my floor to desk, looked like a darned spaghetti factory in here lol. 

Going to be spending a lot more time with the VP2 this week, so it will get a pretty good workout.

[SneakyBastd]

1 hour ago, dburne said:

 

I wonder if you maybe got some lenses that were not up to par or something.

I feel the edge to edge clarity when looking around with my eyes is pretty good in my Vive Pro 2.

 

Yeah, I guess that is possible. It certainly didn't feel right. I'll ask returns to check the lenses for me.

And I'll try to find someone else with one and test theirs to see if it looks the same to me on their unit.

 

Putting my 5k+ back on, and the whole FoV (except for the very extremeties) is clear. An obvious difference. I miss the pixel density of the VP2, but the pimax blows it away for FoV atleast.

 

I'm glad you can get a clear view around near the whole FoV on yours! I can imagine well now from what I've seen just how good that would be. Enjoy it!

Edited June 14, 2021 by SneakyBastd

[A2597]

I still have mine (Waiting to hear back again on if they are pursuing the RMA).

One thing I saw posted for the VP2, if you use a thin gasket, widen your IPD a little, as normal measurements really only work for the stock foam.

 

I tried it, and noticed my edge to edge clarity greatly improved. (Going from 66.5IPD to 68, using the 10mm Kiwi). Still playing with it a little, but makes sense that you might have to adjust IPD when moving your face closer than intended to the lenses.

 

 

[dburne]

I will tell you guys I do not believe the Steam VR per app for DCS resolution setting is working properly with the Vive Pro 2.

I have only seen this so far with DCS.

I can set my Steam VR resolution in the per app for DCS down to like 2800 x 2800 ( Global is 3900x3900) and I get the same 30 fps as I get with Global. However if I set Global to 2800 x 2800 in Steam VR and leave the per app to 100% ( 2800x2800) then I maintain 45 fps.

 

So I do not believe reducing resolution in Steam VR Per app setting for DCS has any effect with the Vive Pro 2. I believe only Global is having an affect.

I would be curious of others findings on this.

Edited June 14, 2021 by dburne

[imacken]

Don, are you saying your 100% is 2800x2800? If so, then the behaviour seems correct to me. 
The per app works as a multiplier for global. For example, if your global was set to 150% and your per app to 100%, you will get 150%. 
if your global is 100% and your per app is 100% then you’ll get 100%.

similarly, if your global is 150% and your per app is 67%, then you’ll get 100%. 

[dburne]

7 minutes ago, imacken said:

Don, are you saying your 100% is 2800x2800? If so, then the behaviour seems correct to me. 
The per app works as a multiplier for global. For example, if your global was set to 150% and your per app to 100%, you will get 150%. 
if your global is 100% and your per app is 100% then you’ll get 100%.

similarly, if your global is 150% and your per app is 67%, then you’ll get 100%. 

 

Sorry I may have mis-stated.

Global is 150% - 3900x3900

I set DCS app to run at 2800x2800.  I get 30 fps.

 

I set Global to 2800x2800

Per app for DCS is 100% - 2800x2800.

I get 45 fps.

[imacken]

1 minute ago, dburne said:

 

Sorry I may have mis-stated.

Global is 150% - 3900x3900

I set DCS app to run at 2800x2800.  I get 30 fps.

 

I set Global to 2800x2800

Per app for DCS is 100% - 2800x2800.

I get 45 fps.

But, that is correct. In first example you are running at 150%, and in the second, you’re running at 100%. 

[imacken]

Just remember, as I said a couple of posts up, the per app is a multiplier to the global.

[dburne]

38 minutes ago, imacken said:

But, that is correct. In first example you are running at 150%, and in the second, you’re running at 100%. 

 

I don't think you are understanding me.

Yes Global was at default 150% which is like 3900x3900.

But in the video setting for DCS I set it to 2800x2800. Which is like 60% or so of the Global setting.

What I am saying based on what I am seeing in the fps department, for DCS that per app setting is not applying.

Whereas in my other games it does.

Edited June 14, 2021 by dburne

[Supmua]

Don this works correctly for me but I have to exit out and restart the app before the new SS takes effect.   That’s why in the other flightsim I prefer to set rendering resolution from within the app because the change occurs right away without a restart. 

[dburne]

Just now, Supmua said:

Don this works correctly for me but I have to exit out and restart the app before the new SS takes effect.   That’s why in the other flightsim I prefer to set rendering resolution from within the app because the change occurs right away without a restart. 

 

Hmm I will check that out and see. You are saying you are restarting the Vive software/Steam VR after the change?

I do exit out of DCS to make the change.

[imacken]

28 minutes ago, dburne said:

 

I don't think you are understanding me.

Yes Global was at default 150% which is like 3900x3900.

But in the video setting for DCS I set it to 2800x2800. Which is like 60% or so of the Global setting.

What I am saying based on what I am seeing in the fps department, for DCS that per app setting is not applying.

Whereas in my other games it does.

 

Sorry Don, but I don't think you are understanding how it works. The per app is a multiplier of the global, so whatever you have global set to, it gets changed by the per app factor.

If you have global set to 200% and you have per app set to 100%, then you will get 200%, 2 *1.

If you have global set to 150% and you have per app set to 100%, then you will get 150%, 1.5 * 1.

If you have global set to 100% and you have per app set to 200%, you will get 200%, i.e. 1.0 * 2.0.

If you have global set to 50% and per app to 100%, you will get 50%, 0.5 * 1.

If you have global set to 50% and per app set to 50%, then you will get 25%, i.e. 0.5*0.5.

You seem to be thinking that the per app factor relates to the value of the global setting in pixel terms.  It doesn't, it relates directly and only to your 100%, and in your case, that is 2800x2800.

So, if you are setting per app to 2800x2800, i.e. 100%, a factor of 1 is applied to the global setting whatever it is set to.

Edited June 14, 2021 by imacken

[dburne]

Forget percentages, go by resolution only.

 

Global - 3900x3900

Per app (DCS) 2800x2800.

 

I am saying in DCS, that per app setting of 2800x2800 is not applying - at least for me. It is taking the global of 3900x3900 and applying it.

I have just tested, my other games are not doing this - just DCS.

Perhaps it is only me this is happening too, was just bringing to attention in case others might want to check.