SLAM-ER Guidance?

[Topper81]

Hello,

I don't understand the behaviour of the SLAM ER so I have a few question:

 

- Does the altitude of the final waypoint in TOO mode has any effect? Or is it always ground level?

 

- Should the camera view fix the final waypoint just before impact? (In some test I hit the target but the camra does not show the target) ==> AGM84H:Tracking the moving target problem

 

- Does the button set altitude (HIGH/MEDIUM/LOW) has any effect yet? I noticed that sometimes the missiles fly high, sometimes low, even if I don't modify it, but I do not know why.

 

Sorry I cannot create bug reports if I don't know the expected behaviour or is it WIP and it's not neccesary to create bug reports?

 

I want to have much bugs fixed as possible for the hornet release

Edited May 21, 2021 by Topper81

[oldcrusty]

I think it's massively unfinished or I'm massively behind the learning curve.

I wasn't able to change any altitude or terminal parameters. The steer points worked great in both TOO and PP, other then altitudes assigned. The ALT parameter on STP sub page didn't work either.  The terminal profile is always a slow climb and a 30deg (?) dive toward the target.

So... works beautifully on targets without any air defenses.  Put a TOR, Patriot or S300 and might as well forget this weapon.  It's a pisser that a cruise missile can't 'cruise' at very low altitudes as programmed. Even if released at 3 or 4k feet, the missile will climb to roughly 8 or 9k feet then very slowly starts descending along the line between this point and the target. If it has 60nm or so to go, at some point it will descend in the weeds and follow the terrain. Terrain following part seems to be working fine but by the time the missile gets that low it's usually too late in an area with properly set up air defenses. 

Hopefully ED will finish this weapon or... like I said in the beginning, my skills need an update

[CarbonFox]

I was thinking the same as above as far as the utilization of the SLAM-ER. Against a target defended by older air defenses, it's fine but if there is a Tor or S300, there is going to have to be some house cleaning of the area before you can try firing it.

[oldcrusty]

2 hours ago, CarbonFox said:

I was thinking the same as above as far as the utilization of the SLAM-ER. Against a target defended by older air defenses, it's fine but if there is a Tor or S300, there is going to have to be some house cleaning of the area before you can try firing it.

 

Well, of course... cleaning crew would always be there and I'm already setting up missions with measures to compensate for SLAM-ER's missing capabilities.

[hawk4me]

I can't get the Designate to work. I have a key bound to TDC Depress but it doesn't pause the screen and I have a hell of a time guiding it in. Something tells me it's designed for Realistic TDC slew to be on in options.

[razo+r]

20 minutes ago, hawk4me said:

I can't get the Designate to work. I have a key bound to TDC Depress but it doesn't pause the screen and I have a hell of a time guiding it in. Something tells me it's designed for Realistic TDC slew to be on in options.

Indeed, its much easier with realistic TDC enabled. 

[AstonMartinDBS]

2 hours ago, hawk4me said:

I can't get the Designate to work. I have a key bound to TDC Depress but it doesn't pause the screen and I have a hell of a time guiding it in.

Did you set TDC priority to the correct DDI?

[AvroLanc]

I’ve been using the ALT function on the STP options with great success. It seems to work well. 
 

It’s a height rather than altitude, so just input 1000ft etc and the missile should terrain follow at that height. The lowest I’ve tried is 500ft and it worked well. 
 

I’m not sure how the ALT setting interacts with the global FLT setting of LOW, MED, HIGH. It seems to override it, but more testing needed. 
 

It’s quite reasonable that a Sa-15 should engage and take out the SLAM-ER. But that’s why SEAD support and mission planning is a thing. 

[nickos86]

From my tests, If you choose a WPT and then ALT - the SLAM will fly the assigned ALT at AGL (will terrain follow - not sure if it's the case IRL). If you choose ALT and then WPT - It will fly the FLT (5000 for LOW, 15000 for MID...).

 

I've also encountered the problem of the camera not looking at the direction of flight of the missile. I guess it should try looking at the TGT... But it doesn't really work. Strangely, If you set a relatively high distance for the DL (around 20NM) - at least longer then the beginning of the terminal phase - it works fine.

Edited May 22, 2021 by nickos86

[oldcrusty]

I tested the missile in fire and forget. Tried different combinations or sequences of flight profile including the sub page of STR. Steerpoints or no steerpoints, the elevation profile always ended up on 'MED' .  As I said in my previous post, if the missile was launched from a long distance it always descended slowly along the straight line (elev.) toward the target and especially in hilly terrain it would reach the ground elevation point higher then the missile's direct elevation path toward the target and force the missile to hug the ground at 200, 300 feet. Then, when approaching the target the missile would climb as if programmed for DL use, which I wasn't using.

Edited May 22, 2021 by Gripes323

[Sprool]

Ive had success in PP mode, fire-n-forget but in TO mode heading towards a waypoint teh screens are not picking up the targets I want near to the wp, so its impossible to say if the self-guidance works. I can TDC-depress, move the corss hairs then the screen unfreezes but all I get is green and grey splotches. Watching the missiles home in on PP mode the screens work fine. Note: The designated target WP is positioned about 200 ft from a couple of Hercules on the apron of a runway so should be very clearly visible. Having watched videos from Spud, Wags and Cap I'm following exactly the same workflow but failing.

 

[hawk4me]

If I remember correctly there should be some HUD symbology on the DDI itself that shows the TGTPT and you put the cursor of the SLAM over the TGT Diamond and it should be really freakin close at that point using precise adjustments. That might be a 16 only thing but there should be some information on the display of the SLAM about where the target actually is according to what your TGP or WYPT coordinates gave it prior to launch.

[oldcrusty]

14 hours ago, nickos86 said:

From my tests, If you choose a WPT and then ALT - the SLAM will fly the assigned ALT at AGL (will terrain follow - not sure if it's the case IRL). If you choose ALT and then WPT - It will fly the FLT (5000 for LOW, 15000 for MID...).

 

I've also encountered the problem of the camera not looking at the direction of flight of the missile. I guess it should try looking at the TGT... But it doesn't really work. Strangely, If you set a relatively high distance for the DL (around 20NM) - at least longer then the beginning of the terminal phase - it works fine.

 

 

All right , I guess my problem was as usual with me... trying to do too many things at a time. In all my tests I was loaded with 4 SLAM-ER's and tried to get them all ready and pre-configured before getting to my launch point. I could swear though I tried to setup the wpts then alt. for each of them without touching anything else. Apparently I goofed somewhere.

The mech. is definitely weird but it works and I was able to get all missiles behave the way I wanted them to behave.

Something funny happened to one of my missiles as I was doing minor adjustments on my DL screen. It was flying above water at 200 ft. and had about 12 nm to go when I decided to change my target to a different building. I boxed force corelate and initially slewing worked great, then I must've pushed on my TDC too much and the missile tumbled, hehe.  I quickly switched to F6 view and sure as hell the missile went out of control and into the drink.

Anyways, I'm slowly getting the handle on this weapon.

[Sprool]

I had a couple of missiles go stray, they were still flying 25 minutes then they finally made it to the edge of the map and stopped suspended in mid air for the next hour till I exited the mission

[oldcrusty]

OK, so altitude control works but to live up to my call sign I have to b***h about other things: terminal flight profile not working and the SLAMER setup is 'weird' if precise altitudes need to be programmed. If that's the way it's done in RW... 

Here's a short clip of flying SEAD for my own SLAMER's

 

 

[CarbonFox]

I also ran into the camera issue in the terminal phase. One thing I am curious about is can you use TOO mode as a fire-and-forget or do you need to keep the missile connected to the data-link all the way to the designated waypoint? Asking cause I can't get the PP mode to really work. Not sure if I missing something in the coordinates I input.

[jppsx]

in too make sure the waypoint that is on the target is set at the altitude the target is or it just going to fly above the target 

[oldcrusty]

1 hour ago, CarbonFox said:

I also ran into the camera issue in the terminal phase. One thing I am curious about is can you use TOO mode as a fire-and-forget or do you need to keep the missile connected to the data-link all the way to the designated waypoint? Asking cause I can't get the PP mode to really work. Not sure if I missing something in the coordinates I input.

 

I tried PP once (via waypoints) and it worked.  Since this was a test, I also had waypoints located over the targets just in case and I'm glad I did...  My mission editor was set for MGRS grid and that was the format for my targets.  In cockpit, I didn't see an option to input MGRS into SLAMER's memory, so... I had to select 'data' on my HSI, box 'precision', change to 'LATLN SEC' for lat/lon format, then copy the WPT data from the waypoint collocated with the target... .

I didn't have the DL pod loaded and watched the missile from external view. It worked fine.

As I was writing this, 'jppsx' posted above mentioning altitude for TOO. Definitely the altitude is required for any type of targeting.

Edited May 24, 2021 by Gripes323

[Swson]

Question, in stp too mode, with only 2 waypoints, do you program the Waypoint 2, which is Target designated on hsi, as STP2 ?

I tried a lot of thing but never obtained what I wanted. Either the path was not followed or the altitude programmed led the SLAM into the mountain like it had no altimeter to stay AGL…. Also obtained a very curious oscillation of the flight when approaching a turning point

[oldcrusty]

10 hours ago, Swson said:

Question, in stp too mode, with only 2 waypoints, do you program the Waypoint 2, which is Target designated on hsi, as STP2 ?

I tried a lot of thing but never obtained what I wanted. Either the path was not followed or the altitude programmed led the SLAM into the mountain like it had no altimeter to stay AGL…. Also obtained a very curious oscillation of the flight when approaching a turning point

 

No, the last route waypoint for the SLAMER doesn't have to be collocated with the target so if your WPT2 was designated as a target, you only need to input ALT and WPT1 into the route.

From WPT1 the missile should maintain WPT1 altitude until terminal phase.  I don't think terminal parameters can be set yet and the default pop starts relatively far from the the target. If the target area has air defenses and your attack package doesn't include SEAD the chances of success are slim.

The pop might be necessary for DL13 guidance though if needed.

I haven't dl'd the last 2 updates so I'm not sure if anything changed. Nothing in the notes.

Edited June 5, 2021 by Gripes323

[ctguy1955]

      If someone would be so kind as to make a tutorial using Your voice to explain how to get the Slam-ER to not fly over the target ?
what would be really helpful for Me is to upload it as a Track File to the DCS Download/Users area, and I could listen and follow 
instructions and try to emulate them.  I could "Take Control" and learn to use this after so many hours of trying.

     I have watched all of the YouTube videos and none of them help Me.

I am a retired Vet and have all the time in the world to learn, but the training area of DCS does not even seem to have any new F16 or F18 weapons systems.

  Thank You so much for Your help with this, I appreciate it very much.

   Clear Skies
      Mike

[oldcrusty]

11 hours ago, ctguy1955 said:

      If someone would be so kind as to make a tutorial using Your voice to explain how to get the Slam-ER to not fly over the target ?
what would be really helpful for Me is to upload it as a Track File to the DCS Download/Users area, and I could listen and follow 
instructions and try to emulate them.  I could "Take Control" and learn to use this after so many hours of trying.

     I have watched all of the YouTube videos and none of them help Me.

I am a retired Vet and have all the time in the world to learn, but the training area of DCS does not even seem to have any new F16 or F18 weapons systems.

  Thank You so much for Your help with this, I appreciate it very much.

   Clear Skies
      Mike

 

I answered in the other thread above.