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TOO ripple procedure (JDAM or JSOW)


FIVE-one
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Posted (edited)

I was playtesting the ripple procedure for JDAMs, like show in GR's video below

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dImQAAHYTAk (I skipped the NWS and WPDGS between each designation as it is known to be pointless)

 

I tryied before the last update today (in the afternoon prior to patch release), but since, the target designation seems to be unable to assignate coordinates to a TOO slot (1 or 2), meaning when switching station with STEP OSB, I can't assign only one and only target designation and all my bomb will hit the same target.

 

I also tryied pressing NWS/undesignate, the TPod goes snowplow and transmit snowplow coordinates to the TOO plan and HUD, messing the whole target designation and sending my bombs into the wild. Plus giving a false TMR delay.

 

I can provide a TRK for both case : with and without NWS pressed before bomb run


Edited by FIVE-one
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Posted (edited)

The trick is to not keep the target designated before releasing. When a TGT point exists, a GPS weapon in TOO mode will always write those coordinates to itself when it becomes the priority station (e.g. the station ready for release).

 

Let's assume you have 4 JDAMs on 2, 3, 7 and 8. Designate the first TGT on Station 8 with TOO1. Step to Station 2 and slew the TGT point onto the next target. Step to Station 7, repeat, step to Station 3, repeat. At this point, all 4 stations should have different targets.

 

HOWEVER, if you still have a TGT point, stepping back to Station 8, or beginning to release the weapons will overwrite the original coordinates. If you Undesignate first then step through your stations, their coordinates should all be different.

 

The process works the same with GPS weapons on BRU-55, just designate TOO1 and TOO2 before stepping to the next station.

 

EDIT: Seeing what Swift mentions below now after this last patch; Undesignate causes TOO coordinates to be erased.


Edited by Tholozor

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6 minutes ago, Tholozor said:

The trick is to not keep the target designated before releasing. When a TGT point exists, a GPS weapon in TOO mode will always write those coordinates to itself when it becomes the priority station (e.g. the station ready for release).

 

Let's assume you have 4 JDAMs on 2, 3, 7 and 8. Designate the first TGT on Station 8 with TOO1. Step to Station 2 and slew the TGT point onto the next target. Step to Station 7, repeat, step to Station 3, repeat. At this point, all 4 stations should have different targets.

 

HOWEVER, if you still have a TGT point, stepping back to Station 8, or beginning to release the weapons will overwrite the original coordinates. If you Undesignate first then step through your stations, their coordinates should all be different.

 

The process works the same with GPS weapons on BRU-55, just designate TOO1 and TOO2 before stepping to the next station.

 

Standby, its possible undesignate now removes the TOO mission in the latest patch

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Posted (edited)

The fact is, if I follow the video above step by step, this can't be performed anymore.

I don't want to be misunderstood : the issue is about TOO finaly not being saved on each store station. Perhaps the source is NWS/undesignate to stop feeding coordinates from the TPOD to the MSN page as in the video.

Maybe it's a feature : you can't ripple in TOO, only through PP. But that sounds weird as it would mean real life F/A-18 can drop one bomb at a time (next rinse and repeat) with JDAM in CAS/GAAI


Edited by FIVE-one
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22 minutes ago, FIVE-one said:

The fact is, if I follow the video above step by step, this can't be performed anymore.

I don't want to be misunderstood : the issue is about TOO finaly not being saved on each store station. Perhaps the source is NWS/undesignate to stop feeding coordinates from the TPOD to the MSN page as in the video.

Maybe it's a feature : you can't ripple in TOO, only through PP. But that sounds weird as it would mean real life F/A-18 can drop one bomb at a time (next rinse and repeat) with JDAM in CAS/GAAI

 

It’s always been a dodgy mechanic in DCS. In real life I guess you can program multiple PP’s or simply use TOO and slew after each release.

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40 minutes ago, BIGNEWY said:

I believe this is correct as is, but I will ask the team 

"Stepping to another JDAM station or canceling a target designation causes the
TOO target coordinate to be retained in the selected weapon(s)"

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The fact is, if I follow the video above step by step, this can't be performed anymore.
I don't want to be misunderstood : the issue is about TOO finaly not being saved on each store station. Perhaps the source is NWS/undesignate to stop feeding coordinates from the TPOD to the MSN page as in the video.
Maybe it's a feature : you can't ripple in TOO, only through PP. But that sounds weird as it would mean real life F/A-18 can drop one bomb at a time (next rinse and repeat) with JDAM in CAS/GAAI
Assigning Mark points to each target, then cycling back through and wpdsg release, next mark point, wpdsg release and so on works well. But may not suitable depending on your needs.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, zildac said:

Assigning Mark points to each target, then cycling back through and wpdsg release, next mark point, wpdsg release and so on works well. But may not suitable depending on your needs.

That's a way to do it, but personnaly don't like the markpoint method as it obliges getting through 3 screens when 2 are enough.

 

1 hour ago, BarTzi said:

"Stepping to another JDAM station or canceling a target designation causes the
TOO target coordinate to be retained in the selected weapon(s)"

That's what should be obtained if I follow the video. However the pod goes snowplow and gives the TOO the snowplow coords. Pressing once more erase all coords.


Edited by FIVE-one
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That's what should be obtained if I follow the video. However the coordinates are erased when pushing undesignate.
Even worse : the pod goes snowplow and gives the TOO the snowplow coords...
I have Mark point osb and wpdsg mapped to my hotas so it makes it somewhat easier. I must admit I did used to do it using the method you mention above and it worked great and then after a patch it changed the method required slightly and then it changed again and so on. So I went the mark point route.
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PP has features that TOO doesn't, programmable launch point for one. A lot of the value in PP mission is that you're not relying on the target positioning ability of the onboard sensors except to get within LAR. In DCS picking a spot with the FLIR pod (or radar) and TOO mission gives weapon impact perfectly on FLIR pod designation. That's not a given in reality.

 

The old way was more correct. If we have multiple weapons selected in a QTY then they have their coordinates updated as if they are one weapon (didn't before I think). However if multiple weapons are not selected in QTY then they should be treated separately like before with a memory of last passed coord. Each weapon (not each station) gets two TOO missions so 8 bombs would have up to 16 distinct coordinates in the jet at one time. Also the undesignate button does not erase a coordinate from the weapon. The updates only overwrite and only on change info (continuous if by sensor or once by waypoint). By building all the targeting without QTY selected it should be possible to undesignate, select desired release QTY set, and then drop all selected quantity on their individual targets.

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This method as I mentioned above still works.  Any downside to this versus the "old" TOO mode that most of the tutorials reference? I actually find this workfflow easier personally.

 

 

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1 hour ago, Frederf said:

PP has features that TOO doesn't, programmable launch point for one. A lot of the value in PP mission is that you're not relying on the target positioning ability of the onboard sensors except to get within LAR. In DCS picking a spot with the FLIR pod (or radar) and TOO mission gives weapon impact perfectly on FLIR pod designation. That's not a given in reality.

 

The old way was more correct. If we have multiple weapons selected in a QTY then they have their coordinates updated as if they are one weapon (didn't before I think). However if multiple weapons are not selected in QTY then they should be treated separately like before with a memory of last passed coord. Each weapon (not each station) gets two TOO missions so 8 bombs would have up to 16 distinct coordinates in the jet at one time. Also the undesignate button does not erase a coordinate from the weapon. The updates only overwrite and only on change info (continuous if by sensor or once by waypoint). By building all the targeting without QTY selected it should be possible to undesignate, select desired release QTY set, and then drop all selected quantity on their individual targets.

Have you verified that in latest? I've seen people having their TOO mission wipe on undesignate

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Posted (edited)
9 hours ago, FIVE-one said:

 

That's what should be obtained if I follow the video. However the pod goes snowplow and gives the TOO the snowplow coords. Pressing once more erase all coords.

 

I'm literally quoting documentation here. JDAM coords should not be earased when you undesignate.


Edited by BarTzi
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15 hours ago, BIGNEWY said:

I believe this is correct as is, but I will ask the team 

Morning Bignewy, multiple players reports that JDAMs (maybe JSOWs cuz I have not tested them) cannot save coordinates from ATFLIR or LITENING POD in TOO mode. Is it confirmed as a bug yet?

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8 hours ago, Swiftwin9s said:

Have you verified that in latest? I've seen people having their TOO mission wipe on undesignate

I did and they are. As far as I know old code was more accurate

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Yes, coords lossed in undesignate press. No make sense have. Now we have only one store coord, when the TPOD is on, you can fire, then move, fire, move,.... but TOO storage is useless, bug?? y think yes. Before we can store coords.

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Does seem like a somewhat clunky process. And given that this worked previously it's either a bug or "as designed". Perhaps a Hornet SME can pipe up?

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My understanding is TOO ( Target of opportunity ) does not save when stepping. 

 

Best option is to use PP, or sometimes I stay in TOO mode and have waypoints setup for targets and WPSDG each waypoint when deploying weapons.  

 

thanks

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Posted (edited)

Tryied using markpoints to designate and bypass that issue, but now we have issues with markpoint/waypoint designation. (see WPDSG issue topic)

Seems like the TPOD is now into a lot of trouble sadly


Edited by FIVE-one
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