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AI bad in dogfiging


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AI for modern jet fighters is quite bad when it comes to dogfighting. After a merge their 1st circle seems to be OK, but afterward they soon become the underdogs, they fall into subordinate position and they always go into vertical circle and keep on repeating it afterwards. So predictable.

Where are other maneuvers, one circle, two circles, horizontal rate fights, chaning directions (maneuvers) and stuff like that, which are common for dogfights?

WW2 dogfights seem to be a bit better, but still AI doesn`t change much their path or patern of the flight path.

Would be really awesome to have better AI, since its not far off, and would be way interesting to practice. Just put some proper flight maneuvers and randomness into them. I know its easy to say, but it shouldn`t be that hard.

 


Edited by mitja_bonca
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Well , yes. I agree. 

The maneuvering of the AI has nothing to do with close combat fighting. The turns are pretty predictable. On the other hand: If you own a complex modern module and you do a long mission with ALL the actions you have to do and not just starting the aircraft, run into combat, shoot like hell and sometimes landing …. I mean , a really complex mission with all the  aspects and actions, limitations, checks, calls, handling and tactics, then a simple dogfight is not on prio one. In fact most of the DCS users are great dogfighters but most would fail while performing a simple CAP including AA-Refuel from start to end even without enemies. 

Think, it depends of what you want. Training and complex missions or "just" wild dogfighting.  But yes- Often I was thankful for the bad AI performance in dogfighting after a long flight into the combat area. :clap_2: 

 

Cheers

Tom

Born to fly but forced to work.

 

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12 hours ago, mitja_bonca said:

AI for modern jet fighters is quite bad when it comes to dogfighting. After a merge their 1st circle seems to be OK, but afterward they soon become the underdogs, they fall into subordinate position and they always go into vertical circle and keep on repeating it afterwards. So predictable.

Where are other maneuvers, one circle, two circles, horizontal rate fights, chaning directions (maneuvers) and stuff like that, which are common for dogfights?

WW2 dogfights seem to be a bit better, but still AI doesn`t change much their path or patern of the flight path.

Would be really awesome to have better AI, since its not far off, and would be way interesting to practice. Just put some proper flight maneuvers and randomness into them. I know its easy to say, but it shouldn`t be that hard.

 

 

ED is working on the aircraft AI, particularly within visual range, they said the WWII will come first and then the modern ones. This is huge task, popular demand and acknowledged work in progress. 

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On 8/2/2021 at 1:07 PM, Dragon1-1 said:

That's because everyone knows it's broken, that ED is working on it, and that it's gonna happen for WWII first, anyway. Nothing more needs to be said.

Quote a lot to be said about it. The majority of players are not ww2, should have started with what people fly most. 

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48 minutes ago, b0bl00i said:

Quote a lot to be said about it. The majority of players are not ww2, should have started with what people fly most. 

No, should have started with what is easiest to do, and they did. You need to walk before you run. WWII dogfights are pretty straightforward, and most things about them apply to modern aircraft, as well, but with guided weaponry in play, a whole new layer of complexity is added on top. A MiG-19, for example, will fight much like a WWII aircraft when engaging with guns, but if it carries R-3 missiles, tactics change significantly, and even more so if it's going to go up against a Viper with HOBS capability. Also, WWII dogfights are mostly between peer aircraft  with broadly similar design philosophy (I-16 notwithstanding), modern ones quite the opposite.

 

AI is hard. Modern air combat is hard, and making AI perform realistically in modern scenarios is hard^2. I wouldn't say it was easy in WWII, but it didn't have quite as many variables, and that's what helps. The more variables AI has to "think" about, it becomes to code. The simpler the game, the easier it is to make good AI. Hence, chess games can trounce a mid-level player if set high enough without any extra advantages, while DCS AI wouldn't be able to fly their way out of a paper bag without cheating.

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