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What happened to the Mk 40, Mk 63 and Mk 77?


Northstar98
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Posted (edited)

Hi Everyone,

 

I just looked at the planned features and weapons roadmap, and several of them have disappeared off of the list.

 

Namely the Mk 40 Destructor and Mk 63 Quickstrike sea mines, these are both 1000lb Mk 83s converted for use as mines, fitted with a retarding device and an influence detector (which can be approximated as a proximity fuse we have now).

 

The same can be said about the Mk 77 napalm bomb, which has also disappeared.

 

The funny thing is that both the Mk 40 and Mk 77 have models present in the modelviewer (which came at about the same time we received the new AIM-120 models).

 

The only other thing (I think) is the GEN-X active decoy, which has also disappeared.

 

And unless my eyes are failing me, neither the Mk 40 or the Mk 63 were on the 2020 roadmap either, the Mk 77 and GEN-X however, were.

 

Can anybody comment what's going on? Are these axed? Because if so that's pretty disappointing. @NineLine @BIGNEWY


Edited by Northstar98
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As stated in the post

 

Quote

Note that this is all very much subject to change for our mid-2000s F/A-18C USN Hornet.

 

We may see them after early access is completed. 

 

thanks

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Posted (edited)
On 5/19/2021 at 11:12 AM, BIGNEWY said:

As stated in the post

 

Yeah, I get that, but it's a little odd them being present (and still are) in the modelviewer - in 2 and a half years the roadmap for the Hornet has stayed the same. It's only now they fallen off of it, and nothing has been said about them.

 

Quote

We may see them after early access is completed. 

 

thanks

 

Okay, well, here's hoping that they do - especially (at least in the Mk 40 and Mk 63's case) these are weapons that AFAIK should absolutely be present on our Hornet, and when there are things already that kinda don't, like the Walleye II and AGM-84E (at least they don't fit the timeframe).


Edited by Northstar98
It's more 2.5 years

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  • Northstar98 changed the title to What happened to the Mk 40, Mk 63 and Mk 77?
1 minute ago, Northstar98 said:

 

Yeah, I get that, but it's a little odd them being present (and still are) in the modelviewer - in 3 years the roadmap for the Hornet has stayed the same 

 

 

Okay, well, here's hoping that they do - especially (at least in the Mk 40 and Mk 63's case these are weapons that AFAIK should absolutely be present on our Hornet, when things like the Walleye II and AGM-84E don't (at least they do fit the timeframe)).

 

Remember that weapons has not exclusive from Hornet, others aircrafts can use them. That require build Schemes and funtionality, similar to Mk-77 fire bomb (implement realistic weapons).

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Posted (edited)
3 minutes ago, Silver_Dragon said:

Remember that weapons has not exclusive from Hornet, others aircrafts can use them. That require build Schemes and funtionality, similar to Mk-77 fire bomb (implement realistic weapons).

 

We're getting OT here, but absolutely true, and I always thought that the Walleye and SLAM were essentially pathfinder weapons as interims that were simpler to do, compared to what our Hornet should use which is the AGM-84H/K SLAM-ER.

 

They are of course useful for other airframes (namely the A-6E intruder, well if it's a SWIP that is). But sticking to the Hornet, they shouldn't really be on it if we're sticking to a mid 2000s USN Hornet.

 

But if they have been axed (which will be pretty disappointing IMO), then it's up to 3rd parties (namely HB - though I thought ED were going to take control of all of the weapons).


Edited by Northstar98

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HB or other 3rd party can,t build that efects in the core. Fire weapons (Mk-77) need build realistic incendiary 3D effects and coding that effect to affect instalations and ground units. The Destructor and QuickStrike has in the same situations, build to use underwater and build sensor and detonation effects to affect ships, that can be take time.

 

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Yeah, this isn't unique to the Hornet either. I'm fairly sure the F-16 originally had the AIM-120A listed in the weapons list, but it's missing now. The nature of work in progress/subject to change I guess. In the Hornet feature list vote most of the weapons you mentioned appeared low in the list, which might also have contributed to their status.

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Posted (edited)
23 hours ago, Exorcet said:

Yeah, this isn't unique to the Hornet either. I'm fairly sure the F-16 originally had the AIM-120A listed in the weapons list, but it's missing now. The nature of work in progress/subject to change I guess. In the Hornet feature list vote most of the weapons you mentioned appeared low in the list, which might also have contributed to their status.

 

In the case of the Mk 40 and Mk 63 I don't think they were there at all.

 

The Mk 77 and GEN-X were there, and yes they are fairly low (though kinda ironic as the BDU-45 was at the bottom, and we have that - I guess that was probably the most simple thing to do).

 

And with the AIM-120A, it doesn't really make sense on our F-16CM, AFAIK it was an early to mid 90s AMRAAM that was quickly replaced by the AIM-120B. However, an AIM-120A is present in the modelviewer (though it would be better suited to a 90s F-16).


Edited by Northstar98
Added part about AIM-120A

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The Hornet Updates (first Page) somewhere, there is a article about the MK77.

 

In short: Because of many things that have to be coded from scratch the Mk77 is delayed to "post Early Access".

 

Iirc both mine types (destructor and quickstrike) got cancelled.

 

Greetings

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Rewriting historic forums posts and hiding evidence is not cool.

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22 hours ago, BIGNEWY said:

As stated in the post

 

 

We may see them after early access is completed. 

 

thanks

Oh well then, that's that sorted.

 

No worries boys. The BF109 may have gondolas and rockets added after EA...

 

hol' up...

 

 

It's the simple things BN. Questionable actions and going behind people's backs is what erode trust in ED.

 

Would it be so difficult to announce publicly the changes in the roadmap (and clear explanation as to why) because it is subject to change? Why the need to do it under the table?

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1 minute ago, Gioepyon said:

Oh well then, that's that sorted.

 

No worries boys. The BF109 may have gondolas and rockets added after EA...

 

hol' up...

 

 

It's the simple things BN. Questionable actions and going behind people's backs is what erode trust in ED.

 

Would it be so difficult to announce publicly the changes in the roadmap (and clear explanation as to why) because it is subject to change? Why the need to do it under the table?

 

We made it very clear the list was subject to change. 

 

People like to skip that part it seems. 

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"Subject to Change" does not justify removing evidence.

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Posted (edited)
21 minutes ago, BIGNEWY said:

We made it very clear the list was subject to change.

 

And it went unchanged for 2 and half years - with at least 2 of them having models present in the modelviewer. The change was completely unannounced, and the roadmap post has had the date it was edited on hidden to make it look like that's how it always was.

 

If there's an implementation problem, that's fine, all you have to do is say: "the sea mines will require a lot of work to complete, as they are the first of this type of weapon to be implemented, requiring all new weapon modelling. In addition, we don't feel that the damage models of naval units is sufficient enough to justify adding this weapon at this time".

 

And you could say something similar for the GEN-X.

 

In early-mid November 2017 this is what Wags had to say about the Mk 77:

 

Quote

Also, we have had to move the Mk-77 to the post-Early Access release list for weapons. Not only will the Mk-77 require a new object and napalm effect, but an all new warhead type needs to be created (quite different than HE and pen-aid warheads) and all units and objects will need to be updated to account for this all, new weapon type. As you might imagine, it's going to be a lot of work to support this.

 

That's absolutely fine, it's very reasonable, it makes sense.

 

But this wasn't like that, it was unannounced and unexplained; the roadmap was edited, and the evidence for the edit (the 'last edited on whatever date') has been hidden, it's as if ED were trying to hide the edit - trying to make it seem like this is how the roadmap always was.

 

I get it's 'subject to change' but the roadmap was left unchanged for years and it's only been removed now, there's no explanation, it wasn't announced - nothing, and worst of all, it looks like there's been an attempt to hide what's changed, to make it look like we're looking at the original roadmap, when we aren't.


Edited by Northstar98

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Posted (edited)

 

2 minutes ago, BIGNEWY said:

How is it hidden if it is on a public forum?

 

When you edit a post...

 


Edited by Dunx
this happens
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Posted (edited)
On 5/20/2021 at 10:06 AM, BIGNEWY said:

How is it hidden if it is on a public forum?

 

When you edit a post you'll see a 'last edited on whatever date' line that appears at the bottom, you'll also see (edited) appear next to the date it was posted. This is so people can see that post has been edited (and there's even the option there to provide a reason for the edit). Both of those haven't appeared, so it looks as if the post has been unchanged since it's original form.

 

I might be getting my tin foil hat on here, but couple that with the fact this was completely unannounced, and remains unexplained beyond "we might see them later" we got from you, it looks like there's been an attempt to conceal the edit - to make it look like the post hasn't been edited when it absolutely has. So, 'subject to change' but it looks like we're trying to hide what the changes are; not only is a reason not being provided, it wasn't announced, and the evidence for the editing of the original roadmap isn't there... When it is for every other post that's been edited (including this one).  

 

People edit their posts for all sorts of reasons, even a long time after, I do it all of the time (usually because I've noticed a problem with how I've phrased or structured something, or a problem with grammar. Sometimes I edit my posts to provide more detail or further clarification. 


Edited by Northstar98
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30 минут назад, BIGNEWY сказал:

We made it very clear the list was subject to change. 

 

People like to skip that part it seems. 

Yes, people tend to ignore things they don't like 🙂

Could you consider somehow track plan changes? For instance, you could list such features at the bottom of original post.

IMHO it would be clearer if we may see that something cancelled or delayed.

 

 

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16 minutes ago, Northstar98 said:

I might be getting my tin foil hat on here, but couple that with the fact this was completely unannounced, and remains unexplained beyond "we might see them later" we got from you, it looks like there's been an attempt to conceal the edit - to make it look like the post hasn't been edited when it absolutely has. So, 'subject to change' but it looks like we're trying to hide what the changes are; not only is a reason not being provided, it wasn't announced, and the evidence for the editing of the original roadmap isn't there... When it is for every other post that's been edited (including this one).  

 

Yes, its tin foil hat for sure. 

 

We have been editing ( adding and removing ) from that forum post since it was created. 

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Posted (edited)
22 minutes ago, Blackfyre said:

Yes, people tend to ignore things they don't like 🙂

 

Yeah, it's not got anything to with that, at all.

 

I understand things may change (I've been here for over 6 years, believe me, I know), often there's very good reasons as to why things may change (and I even provided an example of a such a reason above).

 

Quote

Could you consider somehow track plan changes? For instance, you could list such features at the bottom of original post.

IMHO it would be clearer if we may see that something cancelled or delayed.

 

This is part of the problem - the change was completely unannounced, there's not been any reason as to why they were removed, and worst of all, the post appears as if it's unedited and has been left the way it always was, when this is clearly not the case.

 

What's going on? That's all I want to know.

 

17 minutes ago, BIGNEWY said:

Yes, its tin foil hat for sure.

 

Fair enough, but that still leaves the question, why was this change unannounced? And there's still nothing as to why.

 

Quote

We have been editing ( adding and removing ) from that forum post since it was created. 

 

Well I certainly don't recall seeing anything else drop off of the list. The AGM-45 (which our Hornet shouldn't really have anyway, which is why I didn't include it, but then that goes for LITENING and AGM-84E as well), the Mk 40, Mk 63, Mk 77 and GEN-X are the only things I recall disappearing, and that change has been recent.

 

Plus, since the new forum, every post that gets edited (in my experience anyway), will be marked as such.


Edited by Northstar98

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The Wags post from 2017 has outdated and has none about actual F/A-18C progress. The post when show the actual Hornet features has the Kate post.

 

 

 

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Posted (edited)
7 minutes ago, Silver_Dragon said:

The Wags post from 2017 has outdated and has none about actual F/A-18C progress. The post when show the actual Hornet features has the Kate post.

 

 

Then that also raises the question, why make an edit there, when such an edit would be better suited to the 2020 features roadmap thread, or even a post in the Hornet mini-updates?

 

All they would need to do is say what the current status of these weapons are (even if they are super low priority). Again, I've given an example of what needs to be said.


Edited by Northstar98

Modules I own: F-14A/B, F/A-18C, Supercarrier, F-16CM, AJS-37, F-5E-3, MiG-21bis, Ka-50, A-10C (+ A-10C II), UH-1H, Mi-8MTV2, P-47D, P-51D, FC3, MiG-15bis, Yak-52, CA, C-101, Hawk

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Posted (edited)
7 minutes ago, Northstar98 said:

 

Then that also raises the question, why make an edit there, when such an edit would be better suited to the 2020 features roadmap thread, or even a post in the Hornet mini-updates.

 

When part of the comunity start to attack ED some years ago about "where are my Hornet feature / my Viper, <put them>", convert them on a shitstorm. Kate enter in action and put some post about ED roadmaps. That has convert from 2020 on the official F/A-18C roadmap post. Wags continue put info on the Hornet mini-updates.


Edited by Silver_Dragon

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